Complete Throw Combo Guide (Beta Version)

[Mmac]

Hello, this is a small guide I created after getting tired of Grabbing people all the time, but finding nothing to do with them. His throws can actually have quite a bit of potential to combo (His Dthrow especially), and can be used greatly in his game. Granted that none of these throw combos are 100% accurate (Excluding Grab Release), They're still effective and can work very well, they're just determine on what the victim does, and what you do.

Legend:

[RG] - Release Grab (Or Grab Release) : Grab Release is basically purposely letting them break out of your grab so that you can follow it up with another grab usually, or a strong attack depending on the character. This is the only one that is 100% accurate, but it only works on less than half the roster

[F/Btrw] - Forward/Back Throw : F/BThrows can be used to combo some characters but only in Early %'s. Can be used as a great opener, but after that, it's pretty much meh.

Dtrw - Down Throw : Yoshi's DThrow is probably his bread and butter when it comes to Throw Combos, and is probably the Number 1 Throw you want to do. It can combo into a variety of moves, and it even has HITSTUN! However the only problem is that it's direction can be skewed by slanted stages such as Lylat Cruise or Yoshi Island Brawl. It could work to your advantage, but it most likely just hinder you.

Dtrw + DownB
Accuracy - Good
Efficiency - Good

DownB Works ok out of a Dthrow. It can work pretty well as a finisher, and it has a pretty good hitbox. However the stiffness of the attack could make it hard to actually land the hit.

Dtrw + Nair
Accuracy - Bad (Good on Soft Nair)
Efficiency - Meh

I don't really recommend this at all. It only works on a few characters, and even those one are hard to land a hit on with a full strength one. Especially since the fact that if you can land a Full Nair on them, you can land the other ones much, much easier. It can be used as a Kill though if you're close to the edge.

Dtrw + Fair
Accuracy - Meh
Efficiency - Excellent!

Fair is a High Risk = High Reward type of move. It's kinda hard to land a hit with it with it's laggy nature and predictability. If you do get a hit though, you can immediately follow it up with a Fast Fall into an Nair for a easy to land and modestly powerful strike, or into a Bair, where you can follow that up with EVEN more combos, or with a powerful smash attacks. The Fair is actually disjointed too, so it's actually not that hard to land a hit.

Dtrw + Uair
Accuracy - Great
Efficiency - Great

Uair is probably the move you mostly likely want to use out of a Dthrow, as it's the most easiest to hit with due to it's lagless nature. It has a great power acceleration, and on lower %'s, can be combo greatly into good Wall of Pain Combos. Easily the most effective of the 4.


The List:

Before I start off the list, I just want to remind everyone that I am much aware that the Throw Combos are NOT 100% Accurate, but are still effective. Plus you can usually punish what they're doing to escape anyways.

The Percents are basically a reminder that this combo will only work until that Percent. After that, the combo is basically impossible to pull off because they go too high. I also conveniently listed when DownB/Uair will kill, along with some Release Grab Usmash's/Uair's.

Any% Basically means it will work at Any% before 200%. Nobody really lives past 200 anyways...

Now onto the list

Mario:
F/Bthrow + Usmash = 0-38
Dtrw + DownB = 0-121 (Kills at 94)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-120
Dtrw + Uair = 0-122 (Kills at 99)

Luigi:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-32
Dtrw + DownB = 0-94 (Doesn't Kill)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-96
Dtrw + Uair = 0-97 (Also doesn't kill)

Peach:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0% only
Dtrw + DownB = 0-70
Dtrw + Fair = 0-67
Dtrw + Uair = 0-65

Bowser:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Dash = 0-28
Dtrw + DownB = 0-160 (Kills at 112)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-96
Dtrw + Fair = 0-156
Dtrw + Uair = 0-147 (Kills at 112)

DK:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-21
Dtrw + DownB = 0-177 (Kills at 119)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-141
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = 0-173 (Kills at 120)

Diddy:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0% Only
Dtrw + DownB = 0-117 (Kills at 95)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-115
Dtrw + Uair = 0-136 (Kills at 99)

Yoshi:
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0% Only
Dtrw + Fair = 0-136
Dtrw + Uair = 0-137 (Kills at 105)

Wario:
RG + Grab = Any%
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 129)
RG + Uair = Any% (Kills at 122)
Dthrow + DownB = Any% (Kills at 108)
Dthrow + Fair = 0-145

He's got more, but.... why?

Link:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-18
Dtrw + DownB = 0-175 (kills at 111)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-178
Dtrw + Uair = 0-192 (Kills at 111)

Zelda:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-17
Dtrw + DownB = 0-79 (No kill)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-78
Dtrw + Uair = 0-76

:shiek: Sheik:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-23
Dtrw + DownB = 0-89 (Kills at 85)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-84
Dtrw + Uair = 0-120 (Kills at 91)

Ganondorf:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 145)
RG + DownB = Any% (Kills at 136)
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-28
Dtrw + DownB = 0-157 (Kills at 115)
Dtrw + Nair = 115
Dtrw + Fair = 0-200
Dtrw + Uair = 0-172 (Kills at 116)

Toon Link:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0% Only
Dtrw + DownB = 0-113 (Kills at 92)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-120
Dtrw + Uair = 0-130 (Kills at 96)

Samus:
Dtrw + Downb = 0-88 (No Kill)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-103
Dtrw + Uair = 0-108 (Kills at 102)

ZSS:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-14
Dtrw + DownB = 0-94 (Kills at 87)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-118
Dtrw + Uair = 0-129 (Kills at 91)

Pit:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-14
Dtrw + DownB = 0-132 (Kills at 98)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-139
Dtrw + Uair = 0-171 (Kills at 101)

Ice Climbers:
RG + Usmash = Any%
Don't have the patience right now

ROB:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0-24
Dtrw + DownB = 0-134 (Kills at 100)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-153
Dtrw + Uair = 0-153 (Kills at 103)

Kirby:
F/Btrw + Usmash = 0% Only
Dtrw + DownB = 0-91 (Kills at 83)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-115
Dtrw + Uair = 0-135 (Kills at 86)

MetaKnight:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 115)
RG + DownB = Any% (Kills at 96)
Dtrw + DownB = 0-106 (Kills at 84)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-129
Dtrw + Uair = 0-152 (Kills at 87)

Dedede:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-28
Dtrw + DownB = Any% (Kills at 134)
Dtrw + Nair = Any%
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = Any% (Kills at 127)

Olimar:
RG + Uair = Any% (Kills at 92)
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-14
Dtrw + DownB = 0-117 (Kills at 88)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-152
Dtrw + Uair = 0-1 (Kills at 91)

Fox:
R/Btrw + Dash = 0-22
F/Btrw + DashGrab = 0-55
Dtrw + DownB = 0-110 (Kills at 84)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-131
Dtrw + Uair = 0-143 (Kills at 89)

Falco:
RG + Dash = Any%
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Dash = 0-24
Dtrw + DownB = 0-140 (Kills at 94)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-96
Dtrw + Fair = 0-146
Dtrw + Uair = 0-148 (Kills at 96)

Wolf:
R/Btrw + Dash = 0-26
Dtrw + DownB = 0-169 (Kills at 111)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-133
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = Any% (Kills at 112)

C.Falcon:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-33
Dtrw + DownB = Any% (Kills at 121)
Dtrw + Nair = Any%
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = Any% (Kills at 116)

Pikachu:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
Dtrw + DownB = 0-142 (Kills at 89)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-149
Dtrw + Uair = 0-165 (Kills at 91)

Squirtle:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at )
RG + DownB = Any% (Kills at 90)
Dtrw + DownB = 0-76 (No Kill)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-86
Dtrw + Uair = 0-86 (Kills at 81)

Ivysaur:
Dtrw + DownB = 0-157 (Kills at 100)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-185
Dtrw + Uair = 0-187 (Kills at 102)

Charizard:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
RG + Dash = Any%
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-34
Dtrw + DownB = 0-180 (Kills at 104)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-155
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = 195% (Kills at 106)

Lucario:
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-23
Dtrw + DownB = 0-102 (Kills at 95)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-148
Dtrw + Uair = 0-150 (Kills at 99)

Jigglypuff:
RG + Uair = Any% (Kills at 83)

Marth:
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-20
Dtrw + DownB = 0-129 (Kills at 97)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-167
Dtrw + Uair = 0-183 (Kills at 98)

Ike:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
R/Btrw + Usmash = 0-24
Dtrw + DownB = 0-180 (Kills at 115)
Dtrw + Nair = 0-183
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = Any% (Kills at 113)

Ness:
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 118)
RG + Nair = Any%
RG + Uair = Any% (Kills at 111)
Dtrw + DownB = 0-124 (Kills at 94)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-152
Dtrw + Uair = 0-152 (Kills at 97)

Lucas:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 126)
Dtrw + DownB = 0-123 (Kills at 92)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-149
Dtrw + Uair = 0-159 (Kills at 97)

Game & Watch:
F/Bthrow + Usmash = 0-20
Dtrw + DownB = 0-101 (Kills at 80)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-100
Dtrw + Uair = 0-108 (Kills at 85)

Snake:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Fsmash = 0-24
Dtrw + DownB = Any% (Kills at 123)
Dtrw + Nair = Any%
Dtrw + Fair = Any%
Dtrw + Uair = Any% (Kills at 121)

Sonic:
RG + DashGrab = Any%
F/Btrw + Fsmash = 0-21
Dtrw + DownB = 0-131 (Kills at 97)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-139
Dtrw + Uair = 0-141 (Kills at 100)


TL:DR Version: USE MORE DOWN THROWS!


Have fun!

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

Ooh, this is exactly what I need to try to mix things up with grabs and stuff. Good stuff, Mmac!

 

[SOVAman]

This is some pretty good info even though a lot of it is common knowledge like the RG's and the D throws but good **** with the percentages "claps" for Mmac.

 

[Chaco]

Some good stuff, Mac.

 

[Ref]

Ness:
RG + Usmash = Any% (Kills at 118)
RG + Nair = Any%
RG + Uair = Any% (Kills at 111)
Dtrw + DownB = 0-124 (Kills at 94)
Dtrw + Fair = 0-152
Dtrw + Uair = 0-152 (Kills at 97)

Umm... Yoshi makes Ness always jump break right? Well... then the release grabs don't work...

Make sure you're testing these with double jumps... You can easily DJ out of the u smash one...

In fact Ness' jump break is so cool.. He can footstool Yoshi if Yoshi tries these RG.... So it's not a combo on Ness... Just a really good chain if they aren't expecting it...

-----------------------------------------------
Also the down throw ones don't work but you already stated that they aren't 100% ... Ness avoids the F air with double jump and the U air with Double jump...

He foot stools Yoshi's Down B....

But all of theses are still a good follow up... Not sure how easy it is for Yoshi to punish double jumps....

None the less good work... and thanks... Wait... why list things that aren't combos in a combo guide? Can you clarify that for me?

And is it so that corrects can be slowly made to the ones that aren't real combos?

Or are you using combos to describe great follow ups?

 

[Mmac]

Umm... Yoshi makes Ness always jump break right? Well... then the release grabs don't work...

You asked this in like 4 different threads, and people have given you the same answer, thats the entire point. You can't recover from the grab break before Yoshi hit's you. It's impossible.

Make sure you're testing these with double jumps... You can easily DJ out of the u smash one...

No, he can't.....

In fact Ness' jump break is so cool.. He can footstool Yoshi if Yoshi tries these RG.... So it's not a combo on Ness... Just a really good chain if they aren't expecting it...

If ZSS Can't footstool him, if Wario can't Footstool him, then Nobody can. Plus where did I say "Chaingrab" in that list in the first place?

Also the down throw ones don't work but you already stated that they aren't 100% ... Ness avoids the F air with double jump and the U air with Double jump...

Yeah, I said that. However you could be just as punished heavily even if you escape, depending on the character.

He foot stools Yoshi's Down B....

If you mean as an interrupt, then it's impossible.

But all of theses are still a good follow up... Not sure how easy it is for Yoshi to punish double jumps....

It depends on the Double Jump. Ness is probably one of the more punishable ones due to his floaty nature, and not a solid Dair/Fastfall to defend himself from below. Pretty much the same sense as ROB.

None the less good work... and thanks... Wait... why list things that aren't combos in a combo guide? Can you clarify that for me?

Because I think Throw combos are more important than the average standard combos, as (my) Yoshi relies on a grab game. More importantly, I just forgot >_>

And is it so that corrects can be slowly made to the ones that aren't real combos?

Or are you using combos to describe great follow ups?

In the sense of Brawl, Follow Up's are pretty much the closest thing to Combo's in the game. I will update, it is a Beta

 

[Ref]

No, he can't.....
Umm... Retest this I'm sure he can I have tested this

If ZSS Can't footstool him, if Wario can't Footstool him, then Nobody can. Plus where did I say "Chaingrab" in that list in the first place?
Jump breaks are different than ground breaks... Just becuase Ness has a long ground break does not mean he's more aerial immobile in a jump break. I said a good chain not chaingrab a chain is a streak of hits that can be escaped but aren't. Ness actually remains immobile for 1 of the least amount of times... While MK remains in it for the longest of times...


Yeah, I said that. However you could be just as punished heavily even if you escape, depending on the character.
Okay and all I asked was how could they be punished

If you mean as an interrupt, then it's impossible.
No not interrupting but he does gain the height and he did foot stool


It depends on the Double Jump. Ness is probably one of the more punishable ones due to his floaty nature, and not a solid Dair/Fastfall to defend himself from below. Pretty much the same sense as ROB.
Umm okay I'll accept this... Still not sure how accurate that is


Because I think Throw combos are more important than the average standard combos, as (my) Yoshi relies on a grab game. More importantly, I just forgot >_>
Okay Sir.


In the sense of Brawl, Follow Up's are pretty much the closest thing to Combo's in the game. I will update, it is a Beta
Makes sense

Responses in that color, too lazy to do what you did..., Please do look over those RG combos on Ness I'm sure you'll find error because I believe in your testing abilities and I trust mine... I'm positive they do not work I tested it thoroughly multiple times and it did not work...

 

[DstyCube]

Game & Watch:

Why is G&W a shy guy?

Also, could you try looking into dthrow -> wavebounced neutral b? I use it fairly often on various characters. How I usually do it is watch for which way they DI after the dthrow, jump in the opposite direction of that, and then neutral b back into them. Most people I use it against don't see it coming. Just a little something to mix it up.

 

[Mmac]

I tested it again, and no difference. Uair is kinda tricky, but everything works fine

 

[Ref]

How are you testing it that it hits Ness? Do you have 2 people one mashing jump while the other controls yoshi?

 

[Mmac]

How are you testing it that it hits Ness? Do you have 2 people one mashing jump while the other controls yoshi?

Kinda, my friend, who I usually test things with, is on vacation, so I had to do it with someone online. I did it both ways (I = Yoshi, He = Ness, and vice versa). It's just impossible to escape because Yoshi hits him before Ness can recover and regain control from the grab release.

 

[Ref]

There's your problem... Wifi.... You cannot test this on wifi... And Ness could jump before it looks like he gains control most characters have this in fact I think all do it's a physic in brawl... Wifi has lag no matter how good the connection therefore it'll hit on wifi...

The Up smash comes very close to hitting Ness but it doesn't... Ness can jump a bit before it hits... Sometimes Ness may gain footstool height from footstooling yoshi... However the attack will proceed as normal... Most of the time it won't get that close though...

It misses though... So does the N air...

Cool/useless fact : If Ness chooses to N air, which he shouldn't but maybe he doesn't have his DJ he will trade hits with yoshi... I didn't test if Ness air dodges if it misses...

Retest it when you actually can offline... Please don't test things on wifi ever... Too unreliable sorry...

I tested it several times offline and did not get it to hit...
had my sister mash jump for Ness While I did all the yoshi work
So in all... The reason it hits is because of wifi...

But it might as well stay there considering all most people seem to do now is play wifi...

 

[Mmac]

You do know that it's EASIER for Ness to escape on Wi-Fi than Yoshi to hit him right? All Ness needs to do is just tap Y or R. Yoshi needs to buffer Dash as soon as possible and time the Usmash or Air.

Plus did you buffer the Dash, and did you time the Usmash correctly? It sounds like you're doing it when you're exactly below him

 

[Ref]

Yes I buffered the dash, Yes I Usmashed correctly...

You do know that it's EASIER for Ness to escape on Wi-Fi than Yoshi to hit him right? All Ness needs to do is just tap Y or R. Yoshi needs to buffer Dash as soon as possible and time the Usmash or Air.

Wifi is not reliable. Nothing is easier to avoid on wi-fi... Wi-fi makes things harder to avoid... all you have to do is press R to shield something on wi-fi but because of the of the lag your R will come later....
All Ness has to do is jump but his jump will come later on Wi-fi...

Not to mention that, Lag is constantly changing too...

Wi-fi is unreliable for testing.... Please don't do it....

 

[Mmac]

I already said that I tested it with my friend offline during the initial discovery. Plus it's not true. During the stun on Wi-Fi, you can actually "Telegraph" the action, so that you can do it as soon as you can recover from the stun of the Grab Release. Just tapping it, Wi-Fi Lag will actually have no effect in escaping.

But I know Wi-Fi isn't exactly reliable. I try to limit my testings to offline, unless in emergencies

 

[Ref]

I already said that I tested it with my friend offline during the initial discovery. Plus it's not true. During the stun on Wi-Fi, you can actually "Telegraph" the action, so that you can do it as soon as you can recover from the stun of the Grab Release. Just tapping it, Wi-Fi Lag will actually have no effect in escaping.

But I know Wi-Fi isn't exactly reliable. I try to limit my testings to offline, unless in emergencies

Just retest this offline you'll see the difference... When you get the chance... A load of things work online but not offline... I truly tested this and found it not to work offline...

Okay so will you test it for me offline when you have the chance? Make Ness keep pressing jump...

Maybe I am doing it wrong or something...

I did all testing again... Still didn't hit if Ness DJ...

I'm confused...

 

[bigman40]

If you can DJ out of the release, shouldn't you be able to airdodge as well? To me it doesn't make sense if they can only DJ out (unless they footstool), but they can't airdodge the attack....

 

[Ref]

If you can DJ out of the release, shouldn't you be able to airdodge as well? To me it doesn't make sense if they can only DJ out (unless they footstool), but they can't airdodge the attack....

DJ activates in 1 frame And almost instantaneously with that DJ you can air dodge... However the truth is the DJ activates faster than an air dodge.

Can you test this for us? I get that Ness can't be up smashed but Mmac gets that he can....

We need more testing... Mmac's testing was online mine was offline...

I'm torn...

 

[Defender]

Great stuff, Mmac! My Yoshi is also heavily grab-oriented, so I'm really happy with the throw combo's you presented.

Maybe Wario Nut and I will have to do some testing on the Ness thing...

EDIT:

OK, I'm back after some testing with Wario Nut. Let me stress that this is OFFLINE TESTING WITH A REAL-LIVE PERSON. Our conclusion is that the grab-release to up-smash or uair on Ness IS 100% unavoidable if the Yoshi player does everything right.