Controller Modding

[SLyNKee]

Now its come to my attention from playing this game that theres obviously no light shielding due to the fact that the wii mote/nunchuck/classic controller dont have analog triggers, just buttons.

Now the problem is, that when playing on a gamecube controller, the shoulder triggers dont register for blocking, air dodging or teching until you completely press the trigger all the way down and it "clicks."

My question is, do you think the spring removal mod should be banned at tournaments?

(For those that dont know what Im talking about, if you open your gamecube controller and remove the spring in each one of the shoulder buttons, your shoulder buttons change from triggers to buttons, as in they sit all the way down, and only do the "click" when you press them)

For me personally its much harder for me to tech and everything having to press the shoulder button all the way. I for one am all for having this mod be acceptable in tournament play because it would be the same thing as using say for example the classic controller which has shoulder buttons, and not shoulder triggers. So spring removal wouldnt offer an advantage to a gc controller user, it would put them on par with a classic controller user.

So Im curious to all of your opinions, since theres what? 4 different ways to control this game now, how do you feel about allowing the spring removable mod to be usuable in brawl tournaments (since this is in a different league then melee when it comes to control options)

If it ends up being banned from tournament play I think ill pick up a classic controller, because I personally cant stand having to press the shoulder trigger all the way in to tech. And it wouldnt offer an advantage over anyone, the mod can be done by anyone in about 5 minutes, all you need is a tiny flat head screw driver (wal mart sells a 8 piece set for 94 cents)

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

If anything, "GC controller minus springs" will probably become the standard for Brawl.
I'm just gonna take my tri-wing screwdriver to tournaments, so if anyone complains I can offer to take their springs out.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I wouldn't care if people did this, but I think this would open the door for people sneaking other mods into tournies under the radar... I'd say we keep it safe and not allow it, cuz classic controller users may have the R button on u, but their controller lags, so it balances out IMO

 

[SLyNKee]

Yea I was thinking the same, since GAwes made mention to spring modding in his initial impressions it really got me thinking when i was finding it annoying to try to tech.

a tiny flat head will work in place of the tri wing, since its much easier to get a tiny screw driver set then it is to order a tri wing, which still isnt that hard lol.

Like I said anyone can do this, go to your local walmart, go to the tool section and theres a no name 8 piece tiny screw driver set for 94 cents, so its a dollar with tax lol.

Then just use the 2nd to smallest flat head in that set and take out the 6 screws in your controller, pull out the shoulders from the bottom half of the controller shell, remove the 2 springs, and put the shoulders back and and put the 6 screws back in, its easy and cheap. And gives you the same shoulder "buttons" that the other 3 control styles for brawl have.

Theres a much more detailed guide with pictures i believe, just google it. It might even be posted some where here on smashboards I think.


**Edit to take response to Seibrik**
By allowing spring removal doesnt mean its opening the door for people to mod their controllers anymore then not allowing spring removal. You cant tell if a gamecube controller has been opened or not, so whos to say some one isnt modding their controller already? Theres other mods to the controllers like a short hop mod and stuff which take more work then just pulling out 2 springs.

Which I think its stupid that if some one NEEDS to do something like a short hop mod, if they are arent skilled enough to do something as simple as short hop, do you think theyd be skilled enough with or without the mod to beat you?

 

[GA Peach]

or, you could always just try to adapt, seeing as how controller mods are illegal in major tournies anyway. i mean, after all, if you aren't skilled enough to do something like teching...

 

[SLyNKee]

its just force of habit of not pressing the controller button all the way in i suppose, Im sure if I made an effort to get used to doing it I could adapt, but some one who is using one of the other control styles wouldnt have to try to adapt, since they get shoulder buttons by default.

Controller mods werent allowed in melee tournaments, but its kind of different in brawl since not everyone is going to be using the same controller.

 

[dguy6789]

I am in favor of removing the springs of the controller.

 

[3GOD]

I don't see any reason removing the springs should be banned - it takes about 5 minutes and $1 or so as you can use a small flathead screwdriver to remove the triwing screws.

I can't imagine that any tournaments worth going to are actually going to ban this mod.

 

[2kuul]

me either, it's not like 10 people can do it and the rest not... everyone can do it.
i think it will not be banned because everybody can do it.

 

[QDVS]

Yeah I never found having to press it all the way in a problem...

 

[Unstop]

I agree with Seibrek on this one. I understand where you're coming from but better not to have mods. There will always be cheaters out there who will use this as a way to sneak something else in. So my vote is no. I rather adapt using what is already there. I know exactly what you're talking about also since I experienced it my first time in Brawl.

 

[3GOD]

I wouldn't care if people did this, but I think this would open the door for people sneaking other mods into tournies under the radar.

I agree with Seibrek on this one. I understand where you're coming from but better not to have mods. There will always be cheaters out there who will use this as a way to sneak something else in. So my vote is no.

I'm curious as to what other mods people might try to "sneak in" and how removing the L/R trigger spring helps them in doing so. I can't really imagine how removing the L/R trigger springs would provide any camouflage for other mods.

 

[XIF]

I thought at first that trigger mods should be allowed.

But the more I think about I begin to wonder.

The entire point of the controller schemes is to choose a controller and use what you have. Just because the gc controller has an analog shoulder trigger and the classic doesnt, doesnt mean that we have free reign on making the cube controller more like the classic. gc controllers are gc controllers and classics are classics. I mean, even with the classic shoulder pads there's a discernible amount that you need to press downward before it clicks. does that mean we should be allowed to sand down the button so as to reach the button contact quicker? no. The same way that we cannot just be making our own controllers fit out needs. We have a select amount of tools, and we must choose, not alter.

If the fact that pressing the trigger all the way down really means a hassle for people (admittedly, it screwed me at first as well) then switch your buttons. No reason a Z button cant be sheild.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

My springs just broke naturally due to overuse, then.

 

[Angrylobster]

Personally I don't see the harm in it. People use modified sticks for fighting games all the time, whats the difference if you're using a modified pad for brawl?

 

[RockCrock]

I didn't think spring removal was banned in melee tournaments?

 

[SLyNKee]

What I dont get is people saying this would allow people to sneak in other mods. What I ask is, whats stopping them from doing it now? Nothing.

Just by looking you cant tell if a gamecube controller has been opened or not, so whos to say everyone hasnt oepend their controller and done something to it, besides the short hop mod I dont really know of much else.

Just because people open their controller doesnt mean they are going to be more likely to mod it past just pulling the springs out, if they wanted to do other mods they already would have, it only takes 3 seconds to open a gamecube controller.

 

[XIF]

My springs just broke naturally due to overuse, then.

tournament hosts for melee wouldnt be expected to make that distinction, and brawl shouldnt be any different. At the very least if something like that were found and there was reason to believe it happened naturally and the player had no intention of using a controller modded style, then they should be asked to use a different controller.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Which is why anything that can happen naturally to a controller shouldn't even be considered for the b&hammer. Control stick sensitivities, spring resistance, buttons that are worn down or stick, etc. If you are able to alter them to your preference, you should have the right to do so.

 

[NickRiddle]

It should be allowed...It doesn't really put the modder at much of an advantage...Besides, we could switch L/R, whichever one you don't use for sheilding, to the jump button you don't use for teching...Just saying...

 

[SLyNKee]

Good point Nick, I completely forgot about being able to remap your buttons in brawl.

Im actually surprised to see so many people that have either already pulled their springs or are perfectly fine with it, play a few rounds without your springs and you will see what an advantage people with buttons like on the classic controller instead of gamecube triggers to block with are having.

 

[FartKnocker]

I didn't even consider doing this until you posted this. Thanks for the advice. I LOVE the way the GC controller feels in my hands (I got monster hands) but that analog was MURDERING my fingertip after relatively brief smash sessions. I work in IT and am on a keyboard ALL-DAY-LONG. The tip of my fingertip aches after just pressing that shoulder button a few times all the way down.

Guys...come on. How can you really cheat with a modded controller in this game? Macros? You think your opponent won't notice you're idly tapping buttons even though your character is spamming SHFFL'd and IASA moves/combos? Even the inclusion of a "turbo hack" would be a moot point in this game. EVEN ASSUMING THESE DID HELP, nobody will be the wiser if you're using a gc controller with springs or one without unless they listen or look at you play. ASSUMING-THEY-COULD tell that your springs are gone, they should be smart enough to know that-- forget it. If it gets this far, I'll just punch them in the nose and say "calm down." I'd be more than willing to see evidence of someone rocking a smash tourney with an illegally modded controller if someone has it. I'd change my tune then.

If it is eventually determined that this is illegal for tourney play, then let me state the following beforehand:

1) I'm with that other guy. My shoulder spring went emo and jumped out of the controller. True story.
2) I've got arthritis and pushing the spring-loaded shoulder button hurts. Really bad. Ouch asdf;kljf. It hurt to type that.
3) My mom told me that shoulder springs are the DEVIL and therefore my religion forbids me from coming into contact with them.

 

[2kuul]

people who love software make their own hardware!

 

[Shadowex3]

Something else occurs to me, instead of removing the spring why not put some sort of extender in there so that the trigger stays all the way out but still immediately digital-clicks when pressed? This isn't like macro controllers or short-hop modded ones, those give an unfair game advantage to anyone playing.

Modding your triggers so you just click instead of having the analog motion is the equivalent of just going out and buying a controller from gamestop that has almost no trigger movement, and yeah those do exist.

 

[dguy6789]

It would be easier to remove the springs than to make that kind of contraption.

 

[ama(m/t)]

i personally am against this, as a matter of opinion, but as a lot of you people have brought up, it would be way too difficult to enforce any sort of restriction on this aside from having a pool of "tournament legal" controllers brought by the tournament director

i don't care whether or not you get an advantage over me by not having to press the button in all the way, i just think that tournaments should be run as standardized as possible, and i guess although standardizing no-springs would be ideal for brawl brothers, it's not practical at all, so i would go with the other option, standardizing yes-springs brawl

so in the end i don't really care i'm going to win anyway

 

[shoshone]

I always click it, i think your just blowing it out of proportion. I think it wont be allowed, but wouldnt care if it was allowed.

 

[Mcscruff]

I dont see any problem in people taking out the springs. But is it really that hard to just change shielding to Y or X?

 

[SLyNKee]

when you've been using Y and X to jump for 6 years it is.

 

[err]

i took my springs out back in february. it just sucked having the habit off light-shielding, and realizing that my defenses weren't up. For me, i didn't want my good melee habits to work against me in brawl (i do intend to continue playing melee, after all) so i really see no harm in playing without springs.

if i go to a tourney and they require that i keep my springs in my controller,, i guess i'll just open it ant put them back in. or use my melee controller.

but i will say that this is ****in stupid. we're actually just holding ourselves back by not modding, folks. the perfect-shielding is soo much nicer when you just have to twitch and your shield is up.
(on the other hand, i can powershield a LOT of stuff in melee, so i know that doing it with springs is just a matter of anticipation and timing the full depression of the shield trigger so really i can live with it either way)

oh, and on the topic of mods.. does anyone else realize you'd need a ****in BS in EE/CS to make your controller do some of these mods people are afraid of? i swear its like i'm reliving the cold war in here

 

[h1roshi]

i really dont care about this. It isnt game breaking so its fine.

-hiro

 

[Frames]

It isnt game breaking so its fine.

Yea seriously, take them out if you want, or leave em in, it's not going to give the person that much of an advantage that it would be a serious problem. As for short hop mods, short-hopping in general is easier in brawl, and since you can't shffl aerials anymore anyway it wouldn't give you that much of an advantage. Most people can short hop consistently now anyway.

 

[Crom]

Yeah, I don't mind this either. Taking springs out isn't a big deal, should be legal

 

[theONEjanitor]

lol @ dillydallying with your controller rather than learning how to play a game that's not melee.
whatever. i'm sure half the people that show up to tourneys have their **** modded anyway. i got used to it in like ten minutes *shrugs*
while you're at it, since we're making brawl more like melee, why don't we mod the control stick so we can dash dance easier. or mod the jump buttons so we can do jcg, and play in high gravity mode so characters fall faster

 

[Crom]

How does the mod make it play like melee? That little rant doesn't make any sense.

It just gets rid of a feature that brawl doesn't even detect.. it has nothing to do with melee.

 

[theONEjanitor]

How does the mod make it play like melee? That little rant doesn't make any sense.

It just gets rid of a feature that brawl doesn't even detect.. it has nothing to do with melee.

um did you read the opening post.
it basically says
"There's no light shielding. i'm used to not having to press the button down all the way."

do you know what game he is comparing it to when he says "there is no light shielding"?
do you know what game got him used to not pressing the button down all the way?

the fact that light shielding was in melee is the reason this thread even exists. if brawl was the first smash bros, people would have just learned how to play the game how it is.

 

[SLyNKee]

Im not trying to make this more like melee, Im trying to make my gamecube controller play more like the other 3 control styles that exsist. If brawl was the first smash bros, there would be no playing with gamecube controllers, everyone would probably be using the classic controller since its the best out of the other options that exsist.

"while you're at it, since we're making brawl more like melee, why don't we mod the control stick so we can dash dance easier. or mod the jump buttons so we can do jcg, and play in high gravity mode so characters fall faster"

this part was completely ********, I never once said I want to make this like melee. And as a matter of a fact I can dash dance with all my characters so I dont see why you would mention that. Brawl doesnt make use of analog buttons, so why should I have to play with Analog triggers that dont do anything? Am I saying I cant play with them? No, I can play fine, I just prefer the buttons to the triggers.

I was making this thread to see how the community felt about people removing their springs as personal prefernce since it offers no advantage over any other play style. Which didnt need you to bring your sassy attitude up here trying to say I want this game more like melee, when I never even menitoned word of that.

 

[err]

served!

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