Controllers in Brawl: Is Wiimote/chuck viable?

[wk4c]

Here's my question; can you be as good with the Wiimote/Nunchuck set-up as someone with the GC controller?

My friends tell me no...yet my Kirby is still a beast without it. [I'm in no way praising my smash skills, I have little of them; I just mean against lvl 9's I own. But I haven't gotten to get a LAN adapter yet so I haven't gotten to play online...lol]

 

[AlexX]

As long as you take the time to get used to the remote + nunchuk settings, I don't see why not.

I sometimes switch between the two, myself since there's only 3 GC controllers between me and my friends, meaning that if we get 4 people to play, one has to use the Wii remote + nunchuk to play with (and usually it's me, so I try to be pretty good with both).

 

[SlickSlicer]

No it's not. I use the wiimote/chuk, and it's just not as good as a gc controller from what I've seen. But I'm stuck with it, so I use it.

I can beat other people using the wiimote/chuk even if they're using the gc controller, but that doesn't mean that the controls aren't inferior: they are.

 

[selendrile]

The wiimote+nunchuck doesn't have a c-stick, therefore it sucks.

 

[Icelement]

The wiimote+nunchuck doesn't have a c-stick, therefore it sucks.

Wow? Don't be so quick to dismiss it. I've customized the Wiimote + chuck about 100 different ways, and I can tell you that you're being completely irrational. It's rather easy to set up a control scheme with a c-stick styled d-pad (I play with up and side smashes, no down smash currently) and I play with it just as well as a GC controller. If I wanted to (but I don't,) I could easily make a fully c-sticked combo, with fully functional controls at the same time. It really isn't hard after a little tinkering with it.

Don't write off the wii-chuck, just because of one reason, give it a chance.

To answer the OP's question, I think it is perfectly viable with practice. I've become more accustomed to the wii-chuck than the GC controller for brawl now. It's definitely my favorite.

 

[selendrile]

Wow? Don't be so quick to dismiss it. I've customized the Wiimote + chuck about 100 different ways, and I can tell you that you're being completely irrational. It's rather easy to set up a control scheme with a c-stick styled d-pad (I play with up and side smashes, no down smash currently) and I play with it just as well as a GC controller. If I wanted to (but I don't,) I could easily make a fully c-sticked combo, with fully functional controls at the same time. It really isn't hard after a little tinkering with it.

Don't write off the wii-chuck, just because of one reason, give it a chance.

To answer the OP's question, I think it is perfectly viable with practice. I've become more accustomed to the wii-chuck than the GC controller for brawl now. It's definitely my favorite.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think someone can't be good with a wiimote+nunchuck. I just think people are at a slight disadvantage using it over a gcn controller.

 

[Mic_128]

It's just different. the lack of the C-stick might hurt, but then again, plenty of people (myself included) don't use it, so it being missing won't matter.

 

[JVMetaknight]

I have 2 wiimotes, 2 chuks, a classic controller, and a wavebird. No matter what, someone around my place is getting stuck with the chuk. I try to be a good host and suck up the 'bad' controller, but...I actually kinda like it. Sometimes I panic and forget where the jump button is, but...ehhh. I can live with it.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Wii Remote/Nunchuck is the worst contoller by a long shot.

 

[Duker]

Wii Remote/Nunchuck is the worst contoller by a long shot.

You have apparently not even heard of Wiimote only.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bad control scheme, but the Wii Remote alone is even worse (can't do u-tilts without jumping).

 

[wk4c]

No it's not. I use the wiimote/chuk, and it's just not as good as a gc controller from what I've seen. But I'm stuck with it, so I use it.

I can beat other people using the wiimote/chuk even if they're using the gc controller, but that doesn't mean that the controls aren't inferior: they are.

But uh...doesn't that mean with practice, you can still be good?

 

[SlickSlicer]

But uh...doesn't that mean with practice, you can still be good?

Yeah it does. I'm just saying that the control scheme itself is inferior. As other people mentioned, you don't have the c-stick, etc. Even after getting used to the wii mote/chuk configuration, it still feels somewhat uncomfortable to do certain moves.

 

[SFJake]

Yeah it does. I'm just saying that the control scheme itself is inferior. As other people mentioned, you don't have the c-stick, etc. Even after getting used to the wii mote/chuk configuration, it still feels somewhat uncomfortable to do certain moves.

THATS ALL THE DISADVANTAGE IT HAS.

NO C-STICK.

That doesn't make it less viable. Thats just dumb. Its the same **** thing, just a different configuration which you can get used to as much as any others, and once you do its the same **** thing.

Its not because some of you completely sucks with wiimote/chuck controls that it makes it bad

 

[Tenki]

You can change dpad to smashes, can't you?

Or if not, you can turn on SHAKE SMASH >_>
it's just like a C-stick, except you use your wrist instead of your fingers..

Personally, I rarely used C-stick in Melee, so I had no problem switching between wii-chuck and GCc. Custom controls are always nice.

If anything, I shield faster with wii-mote, since I don't have to go through a spring on the shoulder button to make the shield work (and I'm not tempted to do a light shield -___-)

Just because you suck with wiimote/chuck controls doesn't mean it's bad

Paraphrased for truth.

I think that applies to the non-standard characters in Brawl that don't play like anyone else, too >_>

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

People are so naive and don't test things.

The Wiichuck has a C-stick. You just need to set it. D-Pad to Smashes, viola. I've been using it since the game came out. Heck, I'd argue that the Wiichuck is actually superior because it requires far less overall movement of your fingers (you actually get 5 fingers working the control, as opposed to 4).

However, I still suggest the Gamecube Controller, ONLY because of the synch and battery life issues. Showing up to an all day tourny, and having your Controller crap out is never good. Its disruptive and can loose you matches. The synching issue only arises at larger tournaments, but still a time issue that can easily be avoided.

 

[Icelement]

People are so naive and don't test things.

The Wiichuck has a C-stick. You just need to set it. D-Pad to Smashes, viola. I've been using it since the game came out. Heck, I'd argue that the Wiichuck is actually superior because it requires far less overall movement of your fingers (you actually get 5 fingers working the control, as opposed to 4).

However, I still suggest the Gamecube Controller, ONLY because of the synch and battery life issues. Showing up to an all day tourny, and having your Controller crap out is never good. Its disruptive and can loose you matches. The synching issue only arises at larger tournaments, but still a time issue that can easily be avoided.

Those are the same reasons making me weary of attending my first tourney. I'm sure all the GC users will be laughing at my wii-chuck, but I always carry 8 AAs in my car, and usually 2 in my pocket if I go to a friend's place to brawl. D-pad works great for smashes too, and I've been using wii-chuck since release, just like you.

 

[Aminar]

I played w/ the wiimote chuck for the first two weeks the game was out. It's not bad, but Grabbing w/ it is a pain. In addition I cannot shorthop well. However I have a good friend who is lefty and is remarkably good w/ the wiimote nunchuck setup. He only shieldgrabs which i never took the time to do and shorthops amazingly well, mainly because he's lefty.

 

[Crow!]

The default controls assigned to wiimote/nunchuck are far from optimal. To anyone considering using that setup, I strongly suggest trying various arcane control schemes until you find something both comfortable and fast. (In particular, I suggest using the directional pad as a set of three buttons, two of which are simultaneously accessible).

Once you get used to shake smash (which behaves exactly the same as the c-stick: you can use it for directional aerials, charge the smash, etc), it's not technically inferior to the gamecube controller. However, you cannot set shake to b-stick, which limits some characters.

Also, sometimes I find that the wiimote sometimes fails to hold down buttons continuously (I'll hold down crouch and occasionally stand up, for example). I don't know whether that's an issue with interference from other gaming systems in the dorm or whether that problem is more fundamental.

 

[Taymond]

The Wiimote/Chuck combo can suffer from lack of options, but it doesn't necessarily. The most notable "lack" is the absence of a C-Stick, obviously, but this can be remedied by assigning the D-pad to directional Smashes, as many have mentioned. Unfortunately, this now leaves you without a dedicated jump button (that isn't tap jump) or a dedicated grab button. Granted, there are definitely other ways to grab, but a dedicated button has its uses, as well.

Without Shake Smash, you will lose exactly 1 button on the GCC controller, unless you can integrate 1 or 2 into easy use. If, uh, those can even be set to useful things besides taunt. With shake smash, you can, feasibly, do everything the GCC controller can, but the reliability of shake smash is slightly questionable. It's not, by any means, unreliable, but it's not exactly 100% reliable, either.

If you can be comfortable with shake smash, and able to use it as well as a C-Stick, then in theory alone, the Wiimote/Chuck is not inferior. You still, however, lose a lot of things the GCC can do to make certain things easier. I'm not sure if the D-pad can be used for Auto-RAR or Recoil Specials if set to directional specials, I guess I should investigate that, since I've spent so much time investigating the C-Stick. I also don't think you can D-Pad and Control stick in the same direction for Tilts, like on the GCC, but some might actually see that as a benefit, quite frankly.

In summary, the hard facts are this: you will lose 1 button's functionality without Shake Smash.

 

[Ralk]

As someone who's been using the mote+chuck combo since brawl's release, I'll second what others have said. Do NOT use the default control settings. And furthermore, don't simply disregard this control scheme just because you didn't take the time to customize the settings. Here are some settings that work well for me:

Tap jump: on
Shake smash: off
Z: jump
C: grab
A: attack
B: shield
A+B: grab
down-d: special

Someone else here mentioned having trouble with buttons being held down on the wii mote (the button doesn't register as being held down constantly even though it is). I also had this problem with one of my wii motes - seems that particular controller just went bad. I haven't had this happen on any of my other wii motes.

 

[Zombieoficer]

Lack of C-stick wouldn't matter to someone who wouldn't even use it anyway.

And yes, there is shake smash. You can do crazy things with shake smash.

 

[jpw5f]

settings on wii-mote and chuck:

D-pad Up: up Smash
D-pad L & R: side Smash
D-pad Down: Attack
A: Jump
B: Special

Z: shield
C: grab

why? no finger on any hand needs to leave its position to depress any button. As a consequence you actually do not even use the your lower thumb muscles as would be required with the c-stick on GC. The D-pad becomes a much more integrated and fluid auto-smash layout, especially when attack is to is set the D-pad down position which is right in the middle of all the butons (or A if really want to, but i find it less so) Rolling is easy and fluid on the d-pad this way to. While u do sacrifice auto D smash for a centralized attack position, i have no trouble with down Dairs or Dsmashes.
I spent two weeks adjusting the wii-mote and tried a lot of styles. Then I tried a wavebird but went back wii-mote because its just quicker and far more twitchy. But if I were lucas I would see why gc controller would be better. Anyway try it out for few hours to get use to it and I promise you find it quicker to pull off moves than with a GC controller

 

[selendrile]

Shake smash has delay before it registers your motion. I haven't seen any wiimote+nunchuck control schemes that justify using it over the GCN controller.

 

[jpw5f]

besides being quicker as mentioned above, the wii-mote - chuck allows you to spam smahes much faster than c-stick. And, the control is snappier. here is the thing though - the wii- mote is simply the most natural feeling controller ever. when used correctly it is way, way better than any controller that remains based on a design that yet to evolve in a quater of a century since the atari 2600. But hey, keep using your GC controller while I can react 3x as fast with wii-mote. (and no i do not use the shake smash, it is no way near sensitive enough, although there might be some odd use for it i have yet to discover)

 

[Taymond]

Actually, it's a little silly to claim the Wii-mote is mechanically faster. You can only buffer moves so early, and both the C-Stick and D-pad are perfectly capable of doing so in adequate time.

Secondly, other than the obvious fact that ergonomic design is highly subject to preference, I remind you that the GC controller is a design that is very, very ergonomically refined as well, placing a large amount of controls in very easy reach. The GC controller is one of the best controllers, I feel, that the gaming industry has seen. It's only obvious fault is the absence of an LZ button. To claim that the GC controller has not evolved from Atari 2600 is completely absurd. The GC controller is the pinnacle of a repeated design, but it was a design that was repeated for a reason--because it worked.

The wiimote, even, does not stray from that design as far as you would like to believe. It maintains the same basic structure, at least 1 shoulder button on each hand, joystick under left thumb, and most action buttons controlled by right thumb, that the GC controller and most of its predecessors did. All the the wiimote did was separate them. It, too, suffers from a lack of a double trigger on each hand, again choosing Nintendo's quirky 3-total-shoulder-button design choice. Additionally, certain potential buttons on the Wiimote are inarguably out of comfortable reach. (1 and 2)

The Wiimote/Chuck combo, strictly speaking, does lack function, and to claim that it innately enables 3x faster reactions than the GC controller is just silly. GC controller is well designed. Comparing the number of buttons in direct reach alone, the Wiimote wins by 1, but in order to compensate for the absence of a C-Stick, without relying on the less-than-100%-reliable shake smash, you have to sacrifice 4 of those, leaving the remaining tally 4 to 7 in favor of GC.

The only huge difference is that you can separate your hands freely with the Wiimote/chuck, which while a nice benefit, is not really that big a deal. We've been holding "normal" controllers since we were kids, we're pretty used to it. Furthermore, there's the ever-great point that at a lengthy tournament, synching and battery life can become problems that the GC controller does not suffer from.

Edit: as a comment to the next post, I have given Wiimote/chuck a fairly solid chance. I've played with it a fair amount. I haven't thoroughly investigated the specific potential control quirks of the D-pad as a C-Stick replacement, as I have the quirks of the C-Stick itself, but I plan to eventually. My opinions aren't completely headstrong/overzealous, I don't think, but I will agree that I am, indeed, more familiar overall with the complete workings of the GC controller.

 

[Genghis Krahn]

Here's my thought.

If the Wiimote came first, and you were already used to it, and then the GC Controller came out afterwards, you'd probably prefer the Wiimote.

It's just a matter of preference, and familiarity for some.

The Wiimote has a lot of options, and I think someone can play just as well with it as a GC Controller. There are a lot of people that have been extremely biased, and just haven't given it an honest chance.

 

[MetaKnight63]

I always play with the Wiimote+Nunchuk.

It just seems better for the system's image.

 

[Genghis Krahn]

I recommend the Wii Wheel.

 

[DTKPch]

So assuming D-pad = smash, wii chuck has:
1 stick for movement
1 pad for smashes
4 buttons for whatever else (I'm not including taunt buttons, just the A, B, C, and Z)

GCN has:
1 stick for movement
1 stick for smashes
A, B, Z, L, Y (assuming R is the same as L, and X is the same as Y. I set my X to special just to be... well... special.)

Wiimote makes up for it by having an A+B option, but I still find it's inferior for several reasons:

1.) A+B <<<<< A single button, whatever you want to use it for.

2.) D-pad <<<< C-stick for smashing. Thick d-pads like the GCN one and Wii-mote one aren't direction-sensitive enough for me. If you try the ones on GBAs and SPs and DSs, those are a bit more accurate. However, when I first started using Wiimote scheme, I was pressing left and having the controller think up or down.

Those two reasons, plus the battery life reason mentioned previously.

On a side note, anyone getting really annoyed by the wiimotes lack of an off button? I don't mean for the wii, I mean for the wii mote itself. I turn on the wii with the wiimote, and then start playing smash with the GCN. But I don't want to waste batteries for the wiimote, so I manually take out the batteries and put them back in to turn the wiimote off. It's getting incredibly annoying.

 

[Leifio]

....................... A: special B: attack shake smash on i use the D pad up to jump the wii/chuck isnt bad, unless you cant use it.

 

[Wario4Ever]

pardon me folks, but can someone explain to me what a "shake smash" is?

 

[jpw5f]

Ok, I admit some of the claims in my previous posts were overblown - of course the GC controller has gone through a lot of evolution since the atari 2600 controller (both of which are actually amazing designs). It is by far the most comfortable and best controller ever and is perhaps better than or equal to the wii-mote, (i happen to like the wii-mote).

after thinking about it some more here is what i can honestly tell about the wii-mote vs gc:

1. response time - ok, wii-mote has less total buttons, but the ones it does have are all in instant reach - unlike the c-stick. if you count the c-stick as a single button then yes it has only 1 button out of reach that requires you to stretch your thumb instead of merely tilting it(as with the wii-mote), however i think it is more accurate to say the the c-stick is at least 4 buttons (which has each have multiple actions). But maybe this is not a big deal - I just find much more fluid.

2. spammable smashing: the main thing the c-stick can not do as fast as the dpad is to quickly depress smashes over and over in order while in recovery, bc the c-stick has to return to neutral. but this may not be your playstyle but I think that spamming something why you recover is the best way to get and instant attack out quickly, (especially online), could be wrong though (this is a WOW habit). also, because the dpad can function like the c-stick you can spam tilts, rolls, throws and smashes all in one place.

Here is what you need to work around to use the wii-mote effectively:

the best buttons are:
A
B
D-pad Down

these should be set to attack, jump, and special, in any combo you like, do not use A+B for anything.

this means that the dpad can only side smash and up smash, no down smash (this sucks). you could get around this by making c jump but i really did not like having to leave my z shield to jump (however, i am now trying to place my thumb between them. there could be some quirks that the c-stick gives (controlling projectiles) that i have not found, but the d-pads lets you do pretty much everything else the c-stick does (ftilts, rolls, dodge, block, shield grad)

anyway, i am trying to see what real analytically objective advantage the gc has besides an extra button. i mean it does suck i cant easily spam sheik's down smash after i trip, but thats it. and of course it probably makes no difference since personal preference is so important, (at least not until they start to fall apart...)

 

[Taymond]

It's simply a fallacy to claim that the C-Stick just IS slower than the D-Pad. Even if the D-Pad is literally faster to some small degree, you can only buffer a move so early, and the C-Stick is fully capable of acting with that necessary speed, so any greater speed the D-Pad might be able to gain has no effect, and isn't worth mentioning as an advantage. Even if it can go faster, which I'm not saying it can, the C-Stick can go as fast as you would ever need to, so that doesn't make the D-Pad better.

Also, you lose out on particular angled things the C-Stick can do, obviously.

You just.. can't quote response time as better with one because you have better response time with one. It's not very hard to neutral the C-Stick between moves. About as tough as releasing the D-Pad in order to enter another command. It's not a necessary flaw, and we're talking strictly about how good the opposing setups could be. We're assuming optimal performance.

 

[Jaxx Raxor]

Looking at all of the arguments, it seems to me that GCN controller and chuck/mote are probably relatively equal. It's probably hard to see which one is better in an objective way because I guess it just talks time for people to get used to the chuck/mote scheme. Netherless, its apparent that both the GCN controller and the chuck/mote are defintely superior to the wiimote and classsic controller schemes.

 

[TRUXOFF]

Here's my question; can you be as good with the Wiimote/Nunchuck set-up as someone with the GC controller?

My friends tell me no...yet my Kirby is still a beast without it. [I'm in no way praising my smash skills, I have little of them; I just mean against lvl 9's I own. But I haven't gotten to get a LAN adapter yet so I haven't gotten to play online...lol]

Well, honestly the Wiimote is the best. Everyone thinks so, and I think our president (GWB) was just about to address this in a press confrence. However, some people argue that only ******** homosexuals use them, I disagree with that and take great offense to it. Never the less, the debate will continue on for centuries and likely cost billions of dollars in resources. So in closing, your mom is hot.

 

[Wolf of Ice]

I use 1 as grab. It sounds ridiculous, but my thumb snaps down fast enough to use it. Besides, I usually use shield grabs. Then I use my "C-Pad" (Yes, I named it ) for smashes.

Shake smash is shaking the Wiimote for a smash in that direction.