Could PK Jumping be Ness' most effective approach?

[Earthbound360]

Think about it

PK Jump gives you an insane boost on range for PK Fire, allowing you to land PK mich more easily.
It is fast and unexpected.
PK Fire naturally leads into other things.
The jump height is just enough to be PKF lag cancelled.
It lunges Ness forward with the PKF, putting him right in front of where it hits.

Because it has great range and it's fast and unexpected, it can be used effectively.
Since you land wight here it detonates, and it can be lag cancelled, it combos extremely well. Even with proper DI, Ness will be so close and experienceing no lag, buying him enough time to hit you with whatever he wants.

Well, how often do you guys use it? It's hard, but I think it pays off rather well.

 

[Masky]

The thing about PK Jumping I don't understand is... why can't it just be shieldgrabbed? B-sticking seems more useful

 

[Ref]

I use it sometimes, if it hits it's good for approaching. A lot of times people prefer to short hop into F-air.
The PK jump does give good range. However I've seen people do it too close to the ground and end up missing and unable to lag cancel.

The problems I see in it are that it can shielded, you only get one shot before you hit the ground.
In comparison to F-air you can F-air at least 2 times from a double jump. F-air hits multiple times so the person will have to shield longer, they may release too early or too late and you may have grabbed them afterward.

Other than that I like using the PK Jump

 

[Earthbound360]

The thing about PK Jumping I don't understand is... why can't it just be shieldgrabbed? B-sticking seems more useful

How would b-sticking be more useful? It doesnt propel Ness as far backwards as Lucas at least.

The way that it comes out so fast and has so much range would catch people off guard and they mostly wouldnt shield.

Ref, how do you do it too close to the ground to not lag cancel it? A PK Jump always puts you up at the perfect height to lag cancel it even if you short hop it, which is the lower way to get of the ground.

If it is shielded, you can use another aerial right before you land to throw the shielder off. Or you can lag cancel it and dodge ASAP. Another thing you can do is use PSI magnet to slow your fall and throw the shiledgrab off timing.

 

[Ref]

I don't do it too close to the ground but I have seen people do it. They seem to just jump double jump and pk fire too close to the ground. I guess they just didn't feel like lag canceling... I always lag cancel my PK Jump.

 

[Earthbound360]

Oh, well then that's their fault. t's like not lcancelling Lniks dair in Melee

 

[thesage]

Is pk jumping just "DjC" pk fire?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I've stopped relying on PK fire after I found out that most characters can escape it early just by jumping out of it.

The only time I use it is out of a pivot, or on Dedede.

 

[thesage]

I've stopped relying on PK fire after I found out that most characters can escape it early just by jumping out of it.

The only time I use it is out of a pivot, or on Dedede.

I was trying to tell this to you guys. It's only useable against bowser (and DDD apparently). Not sure about DK. It worked on my friend once (this is the friend that convinced it is a terrible move) so... Maybe against biggies. Pkt is just plain better IMO.


Edit: also, it's helpful against ic's. Pk fire the ice blocks and NANA. It also outprioritizes MK's neutral b....

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

The thing about PK fire is that most opponents can either shield it by holding down and shield, or jump out of it BEFORE Ness's casting animation has ended.

However, a lot of human opponents panic and try to DI to the left or the right, which is not the correct way to get out of this move.

But relying on your opponent's ignorance isn't a good strategy. PK Fire is still a fun edgeguard though, and it does help against people with projectiles. ^_^

 

[Gum]

How exaclty do you do the pk jump consistently. Im new to Ness, sorry for being a noob, but I never found out the exact timing of it. help?

 

[Brahma]

What exactly is PK jump?

 

[Conda]

youtube it

 

[Earthbound360]

NESSBOUNDER and thesage, Ness' hit's with PKF high enough in the air to lag cancel PKF giving him plenty of time to attack the opponent before they DI out.

Also NESSBOUNDER, if they do as you say, DI down and shield, they will be forced to roll out. Staning there and shielding will only get them grabbed. Sidestepping will get them burnt.

If they do roll out (which a lot of people do), you can chase them with a usmash or dash attack.

If they jump out, that's great, now they're in the air. Apparently you can set people up in the air with PKF now. All you have to do is see this coming.

Besides, I dont think it's as useless as you guys are making it out to be. You make it sounds like it was as bad as in Melee. That the lag is too much to even get near the opponent. At low percets, I say it traps rather nicely.

PK Jumping lets you land it and even land by the opponent allowing you to follow it up quite easily.

BTW, for all of those questions.

1. PK Jump =/= DJC PKF
If holding forard, its easy to tell the horizontal range of a PK Jump compared to a DJC PKF
You also go about half the height of your double jump and swing forward.

2. Just double jump and PKF at almost the exact same time. It's actually jumping THEN PKFing, but it's only like a frame window, so just try to press the two buttons at the same time. I use Z to jump and press B.

3. PK Jump is an amazingly useful technique IMO that extends PKF's range to the max and puts you right in front of where it would detonate. It moves fast and can be lag cancelled also. Done by double jumping and PKFing at the same time while holding forwards.

 

[Gindler]

If I can ever get the darn timing down just right I'm gonna try the PKT2 while they're in the pillar, I believe in all of nothing when it comes to that, an extra 10 percent damage from a kick is nothing to a nice flashy cheap kill, I know I sound like a noob when I say that but hey I've found it works well since they're freaking out trying to escape from the pillar, sometimes I'll go where I think they'll escape too, PKT mindgames after all right?

 

[GhosTim14]

I have seen all of the wavebouncing, pk jump firebounding, etc. Videos

AND I STILL CANNOT DO IT AT ALL

 

[Earthbound360]

GhosTim, did you reconfigure your controls?
C-stick has to be special for wavebouncing/b-sticking and firebounding
I reccomend changing a shoulder to jump for PK Jumping also

For PK Jump, lets say jump is Z (it is for me since it is easy to press and doesn't have to be pressed down a huge way like L or R). Simply jump, hold forward, and press Z and B at the same time.

For b-sticking, C has to be set to specials. Just jump, hold forward with the control stick, and press backwards on the C-stick.

Same goes for firebounding, only you have to jump at the same time when you hit the C-stick, probably using that shoulder button jump also. So jump, hold forward on the control stick, press Z and back on the C-stick at the same time.

 

[GhosTim14]

My C-stick got busted so I cant even do c-smashes let alone all of these advanced techs.

BTW if Z is Jump wahts grab?

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

YOu configure that yourself, GhosTim. I assume you'd be comfortable with R being grab since it's right below it, but whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote.

Personally, I PK Jump by moving my thumb over Y and B and pressing them at the same time. Difficult yes, but I don't, and have never (even in fighting games), felt too comfortable switching my control scheme around. Haha.

 

[Arcade]

I agree with OP, PK Jump seems more useful the more I use it. The sudden leap forward tends to catch my opponent off-guard, and they seem to have a hard time punishing it.

I PK Jump by pressing Y and B with my right index finger and thumb, and it actually works pretty well for me, but I might switch Z to jump and use that exclusively for PK Jump, just like I used R exclusively for wavedashing.

 

[Earthbound360]

I use Z and B to PK Jump, Z being jump
Then grab goes to Y

On another note, for me R is attack so I can short hop and attack at the same time to fit 2 aerials into 1 short hop. You can use A, but since I flick my fringer off the controller with the short hop, I use R for ease.

I also use B-sticking for Firebounding

 

[suzuki brawl]

i wanna see this on a vid

 

[Earthbound360]

There's one vid here under the topic about using Ness' advanced tactics well in a video.

EDIT: Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-remM3gQ4E

 

[GhosTim14]

WHOA!!!!!! I just learned to PK jump, wave bounce, and I'm still bad at firebounding but STILL WOW.

Btw here are some vids that explain wavebouncing, pkjump, firebounding etc.

B-Sticking Wavebouncing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g

Also shows all characters wavebouncing. (these 2 videos)

Part1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kox5-m5JM3w&feature=related

Part2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GG098jC4in0&feature=related

PKJumping.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8QHePOJRNKE

Firebounding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7OFvZI6mQ

 

[Earthbound360]

Good to hear GhosTim!
Yes, Firebound is the hardest to do of them all. It requires PK Jumping AND wavebouncing skill.

Also, use the PKF lag cancel. It's VERY useful. You can full jump a PKF, lag cancel it, and then follow up. You can even lag cancel with a doube jump meaning you can full jump PKF, and then PK Jump/Firebound. Very technical and hard, but man, does it pay off. It's like Ness can PKF spam now.

 

[Phobandit]

This looks somewhat useful :3 now to go practice...

 

[Earthbound360]

It's a lot more useful than it looks at first, especially when you lag cancel it. It's unpunishable even if you miss.