Counterpicking Made Peachy

[deepseadiva]

Jungle Japes sounds good against the recovery, but the side blastzones are scary...
In which direction does Marth primarily KO? I'd imagine all of them...

Rainbow Cruise again hampers his recovery, but do we really want him in the air the majority of the time?

Orpheon, I don't like. That place is too sickeningly square for Peach. Though I like visual of Marth's missed upb.

How about... Skyworld? It would be rare to see in a tournament, but I think the cave would serve us good.

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

I don't think Martha likes Green Greens or Orpheon. The latter is not Peach's best, but it's all a matter of getting used to.
Very few tournies allow GGs, though...

 

[deepseadiva]

I don't think Martha likes Green Greens or Orpheon. The latter is not Peach's best, but it's all a matter of getting used to.
Very few tournies allow GGs, though...

I wouldn't choose Green Greens against Marth. Ever.

It's only good against light characters, and characters that can't KO. Marth is neither, and is actually pretty fantastic at killing. Avoid! :embarrass

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

I wouldn't choose Green Greens against Marth. Ever.

It's only good against light characters, and characters that can't KO. Marth is neither, and is actually pretty fantastic at killing. Avoid! :embarrass

Last time I checked, Peach had the upper hand there. The blocks hate Martha-- she gets indignated at them and is easily frustrated.

 

[BentoBox]

^I brought a DK to GG in grand finals and he did surprisingly well, I wish I had known D:

And I brought a Marth to JJ once, and got 3 stocked. 1 spike and 2 klaps =(. But otherwise it really isn't that bad. You can often use the water to avoid getting tippered when recovering from the sides. And if he falls into the water on the left, chances are he won't make it back due to his recovery giving him a vertical boost, mainly.

I really like distant planet against Marth. If you stand under the ledge on the left, Marth has no safe means of approaching you. You can thus spam turnips at wish :D, and when he closes in, if from the ground, u-tilt, if he jumps over you and lands on your left, float under the platform and reach the other side of the ledge. He can't do much about it. It annoys them to death lol. But I don't even know if this map is even allowed as a CP anymore~

I've never tried Brinstar agaisnt a Marth but I really like the stage in general. It's like Battlefield but with platforms a tad more spread out~ I don't think Marth really does bad in any stage, it's just about finding a stage you're the most comfortable with~

 

[deepseadiva]

Last time I checked, Peach had the upper hand there. The blocks hate Martha-- she gets indignated at them and is easily frustrated.

Peach is good there, but Marth would be better. And I doubt the bomb blocks would be any advantage. Good Marths in general would specialize in spacing - their range would be precisely out of the way.

But I don't even know if this map is even allowed as a CP anymore~

I've never tried Brinstar agaisnt a Marth but I really like the stage in general. It's like Battlefield but with platforms a tad more spread out~ I don't think Marth really does bad in any stage, it's just about finding a stage you're the most comfortable with~

Distant Planet is a definite CP, but I know a lot of tournaments ban it because of the items and walkoff.

Very interesting though, I'll be sure to try it.

On Brinstar I'd note that the lava would really be good against Marth's lame recovery.

 

[deepseadiva]

Updated with some Marth info. Now DONKEY KONG IS HERE.

I'm reading about Yoshi's Island being good.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm not entirely sure, but isn't Jungle Japes a good stage for DK?

I would imagine anything with notable platforms might screw him up...his recovery sucks so maybe Rainbow Cruise would be good? I can see Lylat Cruise being potentially good

If we pick a good stage we can 'cruise' by in this match up

AHAHAHAno

 

[Morrigan]

Rainbow Cruise sounds good, his spikes are semi-useless there since there are platforms everywhere, just avoid getting far away from them

 

[itsthebigfoot]

jungle japes is one of our big 3 (luigis, japes and brinstar), so counterpicking that is a bad idea. rainbow cruise is iffy, because we don't have our gimp game, but the blastzones vary in size, and can sometimes be very small, which is very good for dk. yoshi's is a bad stage for him, but we will usually ban that. after yoshis our worst stage is frigate orpheon, which usually isn't that bad for us, just not good for us.

don't pick places with walls, we have 2 infinites if there are walls

 

[Praxis]

I wouldn't choose Green Greens against Marth. Ever.

It's only good against light characters, and characters that can't KO. Marth is neither, and is actually pretty fantastic at killing. Avoid! :embarrass

Actually, neither is true.

Green Greens is good against characters with good recoveries, because it eliminates the advantage. It's ESPECIALLY good against light characters with good recoveries, but it also ***** big characters like ROB. It's also good against projectile campers because of the blocks.

Marth, however, is gimpable, so I wouldn't pick GG.


For DK, I'm not sure. Japes is a BAD idea, it's great for DK. Greens is a maybe, but his recovery's bad and he kills you fast so it doesn't seem THAT great.

RC and Yoshi's I guess? Maybe Battlefield? Tilt spam.

 

[pyrimadines]

DK's recovery isn't as bad as you make it sound. I find him very hard to gimp because of the Super armor frames in the initial stages of the Up-B as well as the duration of the Up-B often preventing anyone from hugging.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

DK's recovery isn't as bad as you make it sound. I find him very hard to gimp because of the Super armor frames in the initial stages of the Up-B as well as the duration of the Up-B often preventing anyone from hugging.

Toad is great vs DK's recovery. If I'm hugging the edge, I'll trick him into trying to hit me, let go of the edge and do a B Reversal

And on a stage like Rainbow Cruise, I can't imagine DK's almost completely horizontal recovery being very effective

 

[Razmakazi]

I'd either go RC or Yoshi's. Yoshi's b/c for some reason the DK mains seem to hate it. Btw Rick, what do you mean B reversal? As in when he gets near you let go and toad him? If so, would you let go of the ledge when you still have your invul frames and b4 DK is hitting you w/ the spinnerooni?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Against DK I like battlefield and yoshis
against Marth I like FD, smashville, and pokemon stadium 1. (big stages with flat grounds) Brinstar probably ***** marth but i haven't tested it yet

I know it's melee BUT i have seen this happen to marth in brawl too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUa99hKP41A

the stage just clashes with the way his recovery works

 

[Sky`]

Marths Thwart my Guess and Check method of playing. :[

 

[deepseadiva]

Updated for Pikachu discussion.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hmm...Pikachu has fairly good recovery. Combined with his Side B and Up + B, a stage that severly happers his recovery doesn't spring to mind

Off the top of my head...Luigi's Mansion? Pillars stop thunder jolt camping and the ceilings stop Thunder from working properly?
I highly reccomend you ban Corneria. Horrible ceiling and easy camping for Pika

Edit: Doh, only just looked at the front page lol >.>

What about Brinstar? The stage is very small so very little camping can go on and if you stay on the lower level, Thunder can't hit you

Yes I'm clutching at straws now

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I like Rainbow Cruise. QAC is dangerous and not so effective, and everytime he down b's anywhere he's at risk of suiciding. It's just a dangerous stage for his higher level techniques.

I'm just theorizing though, because I never played really good Pika's...

 

[Morrigan]

Plus he's a versatile character and can probably get around some counterpicks [someone correct me because I'm bull****ing here lol].

Do platforms annoy Pikachus?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I can't think how they would. They'd improve his juggling and give him extra places for QA/QAC

 

[TruckOSaurus]

Pikachu is my secondary and from what I've experienced platforms aren't much of a problem. They stop Thunder but Pika uses it mostly when you're airborne anyway and his Thunder Jolts hug the platforms which is good and bad because I sometimes wish they would fall off like a slinky instead but you can hit someone hidding under a platform with it.

 

[PrepareYourself]

I hate Pikachu spammers so much. Good thing for them; I can't find any stage to counter them.

I'd go with Pokemans Stadium 2.

 

[Praxis]

Yeah I had a surprise loss to a Pikachu spammer recently in tournament. I was pretty exhausted after having just fought and beaten Deva, and I usually beat this guy's MK in friendlies (it was a MK-banned tournament), then he went Pikachu and he ran away shooting electricity the entire time. REALLY annoying. I would have still won, but the stage killed me in the third round T.T

I have almost no matchup experience vs Pikas other than this one set so otherwise I don't know.

I like Rainbow Cruise. QAC is dangerous and not so effective, and everytime he down b's anywhere he's at risk of suiciding. It's just a dangerous stage for his higher level techniques.

I'm just theorizing though, because I never played really good Pika's...

Can't he...y'know...thunder you when he's at the bottom and you're at the top for surprise kills?

 

[deepseadiva]

Can't he...y'know...thunder you when he's at the bottom and you're at the top for surprise kills?

Would you ever be caught near the top of the screen around a Pikachu? Especially on Rainbow Cruise...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

You'd be surprised at just how quickly Pikachu can get around. QAC ---> Thunder is a horrible finisher if you don't know what you're doing

I've been looking at Green Greens for being a potential counterpick (any experience on this one Praxis?) as it limits where he can QAC and Thunder Jolt spam. Not too sure though

 

[Stealth Raptor]

tack on FD for good. pika reaclly doensthave any other bad stages then mansion imo, it would be better to list what stage peach is exceptionally good at.

 

[deepseadiva]

Doesn't seem Pikchu's have any stages their especially good on. That either makes it very simple to ban stages against them, or harder due to player preferences will be more prevalent.

Now, onward to Ice Climbers!

 

[Stealth Raptor]

player preferences really matter, as no stage is super pika/super anti pika, except fd is good and luigis mansion is bad.

 

[Little England]

Take 'em to Brinstar

 

[EdreesesPieces]

for IC, brinstar and rainbow cruise are good. delfino's not bad either with all the stage switches.

 

[deepseadiva]

Alrighty Peaches, I need your opinions on this. Would any of you agree on this:

Peach
Best: Jungle Japes
Worst: Corneria

It's for my other thread listing all the character's 3 best and worsts.

I was thinking of adding Luigi's Mansion as one of her best and Lylat as one of her worst. Thoughts, suggestions?

 

[Morrigan]

Luigi's Mansion is good depending on who you are playing against, but it's a good stage overall.
The thing with Peach and stages is kinda weird because, IMO, I believe it's more about where the player feels more comfortable on and also match-up dependant. You'll never take a MK to the Mansion but you can **** other chars. there at the same time; or the thing with Falco on JJ, for example.

 

[deepseadiva]

The thing with Peach and stages is kinda weird because, IMO, I believe it's more about where the player feels more comfortable on and also match-up dependant.

I agree, but I'm speaking in general terms. You always, ALWAYS have to counterpick personally.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I don't iike jungle japes. I would never take anyone there besides olimar

 

[Niko_K]

Edrees and I are identical <3

 

[Praxis]

It's hard to determine one "best stage" for Peach. IMO, Japes is one of her best, but I would never pick it against anyone who I kill off the top well via usmash. It's very matchup specific.

It's easily the best counterpick against Link, Toon Link, Olimar, and a few other characters though- matchups where usmash doesn't land as often and the opponents NEED the ceiling to kill.

I'd list Japes as best stage, but I wouldn't pick it on about 50% of her matchups unless they'd banned whatever stage I normally have in mind for them. xD

I don't iike jungle japes. I would never take anyone there besides olimar

Hence why I win there, foo.

 

[TruckOSaurus]

Alrighty Peaches, I need your opinions on this. Would any of you agree on this:



It's for my other thread listing all the character's 3 best and worsts.

I was thinking of adding Luigi's Mansion as one of her best and Lylat as one of her worst. Thoughts, suggestions?

I have conflicting feelings about Lylat Cruise. The platforms seem to help a lot to U-Smash or U-Tilt people safely but I've been screwed so many times by the stage tilting just as my parasol is about to hit the edge that I find myself not picking it very often.

 

[deepseadiva]

I really think the tilting throws off a lot of our auto cancelling on Lylat. But does Peach herself do badly on any stages?

I'm thinking something that removes her recovery advantage, has a low ceiling, maybe cancels turnips. Yoshi's Island Melee, and maybe Onett come to mind. Thoughts?

 

[deepseadiva]

Zelda time.

I'll add some things I was reading from the weekly discussion, and we'll do Sheik the second half of the week.