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Creating a new Pokemon Trainer guide

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
We don't really need to to classify every final smash in a PT guide. Even talking about Pokemon Trainer's final smash is only slightly useful. Soo I'm not quite sure why you went to all that trouble.

Thanks anyway :dizzy:
Eh, just fixing my typo.
 

Retro Gaming

Black and White Thinking
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,088
Location
Iowa City, IA
This is the most trivial and difficult thing to perform, but whatever.

Charizard can "infinite air release" Sheik on that platform on Smashville. Sheik's air release is a really short hop that Charizard just has to buffer a grab and you'll get her again. Only works in the direction the platform is moving, though, and you have to be on the edge. If you attack in the middle of her release she'll "fall" release.

I THINK Pit was a maximum for Charizard in one point in his stance. I'll do the rest of the characters. I went across rows and got to Metaknight.
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
I suppose I could try to help with K.O. percents.

You guys just tell me what to do, and I'll try my best to research...
 

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
Hey, I just Got an Idea, How about each of us focus on a certain part of the guide, so multiple people write the guide and there are more than one expert writing things down. Face it, none of us Know EVERY single aspect of PT by heart. We know more about one aspect than another. I might know a lot about Charizard, while someone else will know a lot about Squirtle, and another Guy may know a lot about Ivysaur, and both of them know more than I do about either one. Besides, if we all pool in, then it is easier to fix mistakes (and harder to put up the anti-intellectual "why Should I listen to you, my opinion is as equal as yours" argument).
 

Toby.

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
3,156
Location
South of the border, west of the sun.
we'll use this thread to make revisions to Card's OP. after all, we already have the basic frame for the guide, we just need to revise and add stuff. anyone is free to look at card's guide and even just take his description for ivysaur's utilt and make a new description for it. just little things like that will add up. others will be able to help make revisions to your analysis. i want this to be a COMMUNITY PROJECT. one, it's best to have a lot of voices helping with this. two i just don't have the time or patience to do all of this on my own heh. so yeah.
^ Read this, charizard92.
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
k, I'll get started on that right now. I've got nothing to do, since I'm waiting for my friend to get back from bowling. lol

I guess I'll start with Ivysaur, since Charizard92's got Charizard, and isn't Onyx obsessed with Squirtle or something? lol

Edit: Do we refer to Ivysaur as a "she"?
 

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
IT depends on who you ask. IF you think Ivy's a male, then you can say that (I do, but that's because 87.5% of all Ivysaurs are male). However, some think that Ivy is female (likely due to the Japanese voice being somewhat feminine).
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
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Steeler
dude i just say it all the time. it's not as if you know for sure what the gender is.
 

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
Well, I know Ivysaur's likely gender, but because there is nothing over his name to tell for sure (like in Pokemon), we may never know for sure.

Many weeks later:

OK, after looking over my own guide, I've decided to try again on it so here's Charizard's guide, 2.0!

Initial Impressions:
Charizard, has a rather obvious role, which you can easily determine by his appearance, TO KICK THE **** OUT OF THE OPPONENT! What isn't as obvious is how versatile he is at doing so. Being big, he's likely to be classified as slow moving easy target lumbering tank. This isn't (entirely at least) true. Charizard is surprisingly swift and agile for a character who's weight class is typically defined as practical rocks lumbering towards you (ex Bowser). With three jumps (barring the up B), and a glide, he has an above average recovery. He is also fast when running (walking, he is the slowest Character, running, he's the seventh fastest, tied with Pikachu [if you ever played the Pokemon games, this shouldn't be surprising]). Be careful, he has ratehr laggy moves.

Pros and cons:
Pros:
+high damage attacks
+powerful KO moves
+high range
+great approach options
+varied and multipurpose arsenal
+Above average recovery at least
+good at gimping
+fast running speed
+great grab range
+great grab game
+above average horizontal aerial movement speed

Cons:
-big
-laggy smash attacks
-has only one projectile, short range (Flamethrower)
-easy to spam
-Recovery capable of being gimped by a couple of characters
-vulnerable from below
-slow vertical aerial movement speed

(I have a pros and cons list here. It finally has it's uses)

Overall Utility:
Of all of PT's Pokemon, Charizard is obviously the most reliable and flexible. To be fair, there is not a right and wrong way with Charizard, only a good way and a bad one (ok, several good ways and several bad ones). He is strong enough to hurt, really badly. To compound this, he can outrun all but 6 characters. He can play an offensive or defensive style (depending on preference, situation, and your mood). However, he does have bad matchups, so don't just go into a fight. Also, Charizard doesn't do so well under an opponent, so juggling is an issue. If you can, try to get under your opponent. This is why most U attacks are rated so high in comparison to most other attacks.

Move group Dissection:
Key:
1: Don't use this
2: this isn't recommended, but still plausible moves
3: this is entirely optional
4: Stamped with the seal of recommendation
5: Use this, trust me
-A combo: interestingly, this can be kind of effective when racking up damage. However, with the rest of Charizard's moves, this shouldn't be a necessary action. 3
-Tilts: Charizard's tilts are interestingly as strong as some smash attacks. His Dtilt can KO Mario at 110% and his Ftilt can KO Mario at around 135%. His Ftilt and Utilt are also good damage Rackers. I definitely recommend these.
Ftilt:4
Dtilt:4
Utilt:4
Overall: 4
-Smashes: While Charizard's tilts are fast, most of his smash attacks are rather, slow. His Usmash does execute quickly, but outside that, I don't really recommend them (in fact, Due to Dsmash's really poor range [grounded opponents], I'd might as well give it a 1).
Fsmash:2
Usmash:3
Dsmash:1 (until proven otherwise)
Overall: 2
-Aerials: While not on the level of Squirtle's, Charizard's aerials are really good. His aerials are really powerful, and execute rather quickly (except Dair, but that's a meteor). Fair has a weird mechanic, and while it has a pretty big hitbox, you have to get close to knock an opponent away from you, which can cause some problems. Bair on the other hand, is really good by comparison.
Nair: 3
Fair: 4
Uair: 4
Bair: 5
Dair: 3
Overall: 4
-Grabs: If there was anything I'd recommend that you use the most is Charizard's infamous grab game. His range is among the highest among non tethers, and his throws are powerful and awesome. His Fthrow and Bthrow can be linked for more grabs or combos. Char is very capable of grab releasing, which is really helpful. His most Damaging throw (Uthrow) can easily KO someone of the top on a low ceiling, which is very good indeed. It has come to my attention that Dthrow has problems. While it KOs at the lowest percentages of any throw, it is rather easy to survive. It is more of a surprise KO now. I no longer recommend, but I don't ill recommend either. Shield grabbing is a very common approach method for Charizard, which I recommend. Complete thumbs ups here.
Fthrow: 5
Bthrow: 5
Uthrow: 5
Dthrow: 3
Grab Release: 3
Overall: 5
-Specials: Charizard's specials are rather powerful, but there is one problem, NONE OF CHARIZARD'S SPECIALS ARE CAPABLE OF SPAMMING! This may not sound like a problem, but there are many Youtube videos out there of Noobs and even pros, spamming Rock Smash. Granted, it is a good move, just NOT A GOOD MOVE TO SPAM. Once we get the don't spam message out, time for the real review. Flamethrower is Charizard's only real projectile, and it is pretty good. It is the closest thing Charizard has to Ivy's Bullet Seed, so Use it well. Flamethrower actually does have an anti-spam mechanic in it, over time, the flame diminishes, so that means you have to wait for it to recharge. Rock smash is easily Charizards most damaging move, dealing around 45% damage. This is because the rock fragments after the initial blow deals damage, but the placement has to be right. If you mess up, the rock itself will deal 18% damage and a good deal of Knockback. Fly, isn't that great. It doesn't do that much damage, nor does it send opponents far, but it is a good recovery move nether the less. You can direct it somewhat, and it has super armor, preventing most forms of gimps. It doesn't target the ledge however, and it is prone for getting trapped under lips.
Flamethrower:4
Rock Smash:4
Fly:3 (5 On recovery)
Overall: 4
Glide: While it may seem very good, adding to Charizard's recovery, it isn't that great. I have never been in a situation where gliding was the only option, you can just air jump and DI back to the stage most of the time. Also, it does not have much (if any) attacking importance. While Meta Knight and Pit can (and do) have found ways to utilize their glides as an attack, Charizard's is mostly for recovering purposes. The cancel can be used as an attack, but I don't recommend the glide. I don't ill recommend it either. It's entirely your choice.
Glide: 3
Glide Cancel:3
Overall: 3

Please point out any mistakes.
 

Cyclopean

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
25
Charizard92, I feel like you are overrating zard's dair and underrating his uair. Even though dair comes out fairly quick for a meteor, it is still rather slow, and most of the time the enemy will know if you are trying to meteor them when you approach above them offstage. You could use it onstage for a bit of damage, but from past experience zard seems to do much better when the opponent is over him rather than under him.
 

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
OK, I'll fix that now. I switched the numbers around. Uair isn't on the necessity level as Bair, but it beats nair and Dair.
 

Cyclopean

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
25
Argh, yes, I meant he is better when under an opponent, its why I like uair more. Sorry about the typo :embarrass.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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I see.

I can help, if you want.

Hell, if you guys don't want to do it, I can make a guide by myself, although I'm sure that a culmination of thoughts would be better.
 

Homelessvagrant

Smash Lord
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Aug 26, 2007
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right here...at smashboards
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that idea is probably for the best. Using search to dig for pt info is getting old. If we do the guide though it would be awesome todo it in maybe seperate threads (not for pokemon but features of the character as a whole). One of the biggest things I've been looking for is a general purpose giude for different pokemon facets in battle against paticular characters. Oh and definitly get a mod involved so we can sticky in and out the new and old threads.
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
I could also be in charge of proofreading and editing others' submitted sections, since I'm pretty literate. I mean, I was just reading Charizard92's above post, and as far as errors go we could easily use that in the final guide and not have to worry about anything, but I kept finding small little things that were bugging me... lol (sorry if that offends you)
I know this guide doesn't have to have everything spelt perfectly, and everything doesn't have to be in the 100% correct spot, but I'm just throwing this out there for consideration. I understand most of you should be able to proofread your own creations yourselves.

Anyway, I should probably get started on that Ivysaur thing now... lol
 
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