Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!

[Sage JoWii]

I feel like Kirbicides, D3cides (wow just noticed that says 'decides') and Bitecides are all relevant to any suicide rule since they require slightly MORE skill than Bowsercides and Ganoncides. If both playerrs die at the same time, it should go to the initator like the ganon/bowser clauses do. Just because characters aren't **** tier doesn't mean they should be excluded. But this is more for Tantulus (who is viewing this thread) and the rest (who may view this thread) than for the bigots. Trollolololol out!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I feel like Kirbicides, D3cides (wow just noticed that says 'decides') and Bitecides are all relevant to any suicide rule since they require slightly MORE skill than Bowsercides and Ganoncides. If both playerrs die at the same time, it should go to the initator like the ganon/bowser clauses do. Just because characters aren't **** tier doesn't mean they should be excluded. But this is more for Tantulus (who is viewing this thread) and the rest (who may view this thread) than for the bigots. Trollolololol out!

The suicide rule is in itself an illogical and senseless buff; another case of common sense gone horribly wrong. It's been explained fairly often, so I won't go into details here.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I have practically no MK experience. (Yes, I know this is because we banned him, and yes, we are unbanning him.)

Your point? People make mistakes.

it doesn't matter why your bad when you still are

that's like when people say "I don't this video game so that's why I'm not good at it"

that doesn't make you any better at the game you still suck.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Where have you been BPC? >_> Go read this thread and tell me that something being illogical and senseless has no place in this thread.

Like I was saying though. Either have no suicide rule, or include EVERYONE who can suicide in the suicide rule. :D Majority should pick the cool one inclusive of Kirby but who really cares.

 

[Life]

For the record, you can powershield your way through every hazard on Norfair. Why don't people? One, because it's defeated by certain projectiles (I believe it's all projectiles that wouldn't get stopped by any other hitbox, but I can't speak for certain)...

 

[Ripple]

I like how xyro comes in here and quotes only ad hominem and nothing regarding the arguments at hand

 

[Life]

I like how xyro comes in here and quotes only ad hominem and nothing regarding the arguments at hand

Though I might quote this:

I like how I may have just destroyed Xyro's arguments and get ignored. He either has to accept that Raziek is more knowledgeable than he (and thus lose his credibility when talking stages) or accept that credibility is irrelevant to debate (which destroys basically everything he said to BPC).

Clicky for context.

 

[Raziek]

it doesn't matter why your bad when you still are

that's like when people say "I don't this video game so that's why I'm not good at it"

that doesn't make you any better at the game you still suck.

Except you missed the point where it doesn't matter how good you are if your argument is sound.

Why do people not know basic rules of debate? Unless I'm saying, "I'm da bess, legalize Norfair", my skill level has nothing to do with my argument AT ALL.

 

[etecoon]

Why do people not know basic rules of debate?

this isn't a formal debate, jump into fully charged ike fsmash more bro

 

[Sage JoWii]

Why do people not know this is SWF? Unless I'm saying, "I'm a master debater , let's debate", debate skill has nothing to do with Brawl AT ALL.

 

[Life]

Etecoon: Yes it is, you can't prove it isn't. *glares at Soren*

 

[SuSa]

People need to realize this isn't exactly a logical debate. I've been trying to point this out many times.

The current debate is the equivalent of any religious debate. Pick your side, believe in it, because in the end. It doesn't matter.

Also stop

Spoiler

That you are better than the other person (whom you haven't played). I don't give a damn about videos, especially ancient ones.

Unless it's losing to Ganon as the 2nd best character in this game

(sorry Bw3tt, I <3 youuuuuuuuuuu)

 

[Raziek]

Why do people not know this is SWF? Unless I'm saying, "I'm a master debater , let's debate", debate skill has nothing to do with Brawl AT ALL.

It does when you're arguing (read: debating) about why a stage should be legal.

 

[Ripple]

Why do people not know this is SWF? Unless I'm saying, "I'm a master debater , let's debate", debate skill has nothing to do with Brawl AT ALL.

it doesn't have to deal with brawl directly. but it has everything to do with rule sets

 

[Nidtendofreak]

it doesn't have to deal with brawl directly. but it has everything to do with rule sets

Indeed.

If you can't attempt to argue without using a fallacy, you have no argument. Plain and simple.

 

[Sage JoWii]

It does when you're arguing (read: debating) about why a stage should be legal.

Oh, hai. Welcome to the Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! thread. A thread where 5 TOs, who don't care about your opinion, decided to post a thread on stages THEY will be using @ THEIR nationals. Of course you'll find some excess stuff in the OP but I honestly can't find a part of the OP that says, ''Hey let's discuss Stage Legality" (which doesn't surprise me considering this isn't the Stage Discussion thread).

it doesn't have to deal with brawl directly. but it has everything to do with rule sets

>_> It still has nothing to do w/ Ruleset Mr. Saxman. It has to do w/ convincing someone that what you have to say is somehow better than what they have to say because you can put structure sentences in a way that leaves very little room for another's opinion. Say what you will about how ppl talk, but this is a Brawl forum. Not a debater's.

Edit: And if you can't play Brawl well then no one, but you and the other 'logical debaters', care about all the logic and effort you put into post. YAY for Troll threads where er'thing is srs business.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

this isn't a formal debate, jump into fully charged ike fsmash more bro

DEAD @ this

And it goes so insanely well with your avatar.

XDDD

 

[SuSa]

I thought I did my end all a few pages back.

In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is incorrect reasoning in argumentation resulting in a misconception.

Problem:
We aren't trying to logically prove jack ****. We're simply trying to appease our community and unite them under a common ruleset. No logic needed, just agreement from people - esp. the majority. Why?

Unity works better for large collectives. When every place has their own agenda it generally leads to wars, or at least a cut off of communication.

 

[Life]

Edit: And if you can't play Brawl well then no one, but you and the other 'logical debaters', care about all the logic and effort you put into post. YAY for Troll threads where er'thing is srs business.

We can't handle trolling of this magnitude!

And I still find "unity" severely overrated, considering that unity leaves no room for disagreement and debate.

Also, what constitutes a "formal debate" is subjective.

 

[Raziek]

>_> It still has nothing to do w/ Ruleset Mr. Saxman. It has to do w/ convincing someone that what you have to say is somehow better than what they have to say because you can put structure sentences in a way that leaves very little room for another's opinion. Say what you will about how ppl talk, but this is a Brawl forum. Not a debater's.

Edit: And if you can't play Brawl well then no one, but you and the other 'logical debaters', care about all the logic and effort you put into post. YAY for Troll threads where er'thing is srs business.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the ruleset.

These five TOs are currently in charge of the stagelist, because the recommended list is apparently being retired. I have every right to speak up and be concerned, because a vital piece of logic and debate (the old ruleset) is being removed in favor of five people's opinion, some of whom are going to say, "I don't like it."

The old ruleset needs to stay around (and this can be here as well), or this stagelist needs to be done LOGICALLY.

 

[Sage JoWii]

It has EVERYTHING to do with the ruleset.

These five TOs are currently in charge of the stagelist, because the recommended list is apparently being retired. I have every right to speak up and be concerned, because a vital piece of logic and debate (the old ruleset) is being removed in favor of five people's opinion, some of whom are going to say, "I don't like it."

The old ruleset needs to stay around (and this can be here as well), or this stagelist needs to be done LOGICALLY.

Look Rosa Parks, you're like a broken record; 'cept that's not fair to R.Parks since she actually changed stuff.

For being in favor of logic, you're illogical to the T. Insane even. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result or something like that? :D Why u mad tho?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Oh, hai. Welcome to the Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! thread. A thread where 5 TOs, who don't care about your opinion, decided to post a thread on stages THEY will be using @ THEIR nationals. Of course you'll find some excess stuff in the OP but I honestly can't find a part of the OP that says, ''Hey let's discuss Stage Legality" (which doesn't surprise me considering this isn't the Stage Discussion thread).

Get out if you think our top TO's don't care about the community.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

RPsi, you're a mod, you can do something about this guy, right? He's been trolling this thread all day. ;_;

 

[Blacknight99923]

but logic isn't getting the community any where, as stated if you aren't willing to compromise some of your competitive values (such as "logically" making a stage list) you do not deserve to be making the decisions, especially if your region means nothing in metagame.


my attack on your skill is more of a jab at you saying your good at this game, when you aren't (and I am not insinuating I am good by saying this)

 

[Steam]

these few people are just butthurt they can't gay people on ******** stages anymore. They'll actually have to outplay their opponent oh noez

 

[Ripple]

but logic isn't getting the community any where, as stated if you aren't willing to compromise some of your competitive values (such as "logically" making a stage list) you do not deserve to be making the decisions, especially if your region means nothing in metagame.
)

the only thing is, they aren't OUR competitive values. susa is rather conservative actually and actually lets logic triumph over his "value"

 

[Raziek]

Oh, yeah, because Atlantic North is totally willing to compromise some of their competitive values, and use stages that haven't shown any problems in practice, right Soren? Hint: The only reason they're accepting PS2 and Picto right now is because they have to, and they're still mostly getting their way. Some of them are even still complaining about it.

Yeah, ok.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Get out if you think our top TO's don't care about the community.

>_> What I was trying to convey was that, they're 5 respected TOs who are heavily involved w/ their perspective regions and the players in those regions. The Stage rage gang aren't going to make much of a dent saying the same stuff any of the five TOs can go look in the actual stage discussion thread for. They're spamming this thread imo by reiterating the same stuff they've been saying since Day1.

 

[TheTantalus]

Oh, hai. Welcome to the Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! thread. A thread where 5 TOs, who don't care about your opinion, decided to post a thread on stages THEY will be using @ THEIR nationals. Of course you'll find some excess stuff in the OP but I honestly can't find a part of the OP that says, ''Hey let's discuss Stage Legality" (which doesn't surprise me considering this isn't the Stage Discussion thread).

JoWiiCIDE for best troll

 

[fkacyan]

K, then why did you include RC in the equation?



Okay, this is a good point... But it can apply just as well to FD. I don't feel like I earned my win if all I did was stand in one place and upBOOS/ftilt after shield drop everything my opponent threw at me (my opponent probably being ganon or G&W); after all he had no platforms to retreat to and no hazards to help him along.

You didn't earn the win by having superior reaction time and knowledge?

Well **** this.

 

[Blacknight99923]

the only thing is, they aren't OUR competitive values. susa is rather conservative actually and actually lets logic triumph over his "value"

I am not directing this at susa becuase he's willing to make a compromise

@ raziek

american stage lists aren't nearly as liberal as NS, when they compromise this is a result you would expect. Kadaj thread actually ended up with picto banned otherwise having the exact same stages. Each region either gained 1 or 2 stages they previously banned or lost 1-2 (although AZ lost more i think but I don't think he's complaining)

this is what the majority ruled for and what I would EXPECT the majoirty to rule for.

 

[Raziek]

SuSa's not willing to compromise his ideals, SuSa just accepts that fighting the majority is an exercise in futility.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

these few people are just butthurt they can't gay people on ******** stages anymore. They'll actually have to outplay their opponent oh noez

You know, I'm willing to put up with a lot of bull****, but honestly? This is what pisses me off the most. This kind of ridiculously uninformed crap. I'm sorry steam, but you couldn't be more wrong if you claimed that Hitler was upset he couldn't help the eastern European Jews more. You seriously misunderstand our motives, our reasoning, and HOW THE GAME ACTUALLY WORKS. If you think that you're a better player because you can beat me on FD, SV, and BF, but I can beat you on any other stage in the game, you are WRONG. If you think that stages like Luigi's Mansion or Distant Planet offer "gay, ********, no-skill" wins, then you are not only wrong, but you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Seriously, just stop. You're about as wrong as it gets; please stop posting.

 

[Sage JoWii]

JoWiiCIDE for best troll

:D I, mean, I try but ya know, I'll humbly accept this award.

<_< And in case anyone takes that out of context, I support this thread and that was to troll one of the Stage-Rage gang.

Edit: And I'm not 'trolling', I'm just following this thread verrrry closely because I'm bored and I'm trying to figure out the logic behind some of these guys' posts.

 

[rathy Aro]

The premise isn't arbitrary when your intention it to make a competitive venture, which removes the foundation of your argument. If your argument is to get the most people under one roof you could have an argument but, as stated earlier, rulesets haven't ever determined attendance. Maybe twenty people. That's about it, on average. But if you're looking for competitive value, there are ways you can verify this: consistency, ability for change (the previous two do not contradict one another), etc., things that fit competition. You can't just create your own definition of competition that is completely separate of the reality of competition and expect it to hold weight.

I see what you're saying, but it isn't arbitrary.

Okay, define competitiveness? Or what makes a game competitive?

You might be right, but I wanna hear your response to make sure.

 

[Blacknight99923]

SuSa's not willing to compromise his ideals, SuSa just accepts that fighting the majority is an exercise in futility.

which it is, there is no point in fighting endlessly on forums for no gain something productive needs to occur.

 

[SuSa]

SuSa's not willing to compromise his ideals, SuSa just accepts that fighting the majority is an exercise in futility.

How often have I argued for liberal stages?

Now can you name me the 6 stages I feel are the only stages we should be playing this game on?

Don't tell me I'm not willing to compromise. I'm just far more realistic and put aside my personal beliefs (and yes, EVEN LOGIC ITSELF!) to have unity.

Because in the end, the stages. Don't. ****ing. Matter

What matters is what when I travel to Texas during Spring Break - I know 100% what to expect. Far in advance. I can practice on only those stages. Hopefully my locals and regionals will adopt those rules to further allow me to practice on those stages. I will become a better player - because very little "stage bull****" takes place.

Then I can expect to actually place well at the national.

Having Distant Planet isn't going to help you AT ALL when you travel out of NS. Unless YOU are the people hosting the national - with DP legal - you have very little reason other than the competitive depth and your players wanting the stage - to have it legal.

0 reason.

It's not helping you at all outside of your region. If no other region has it.

You are spreading your knowledge of the game too far. Instead of focusing on important aspects such as actually fighting your opponent; you focus on when Brinstar's lava is going to rise. Or how to avoid Norfair's Lava (instead of learning how to counter your opponents attacks)

This game is damn well deep enough even on 6 stages. 22 adds a great deal of depth, but the more you have to learn - the less you learn everything.



A Jack of all trades is a King of none.

SuSa out.

 

[Steam]

You know, I'm willing to put up with a lot of bull****, but honestly? This is what pisses me off the most. This kind of ridiculously uninformed crap. I'm sorry steam, but you couldn't be more wrong if you claimed that Hitler was upset he couldn't help the eastern European Jews more. You seriously misunderstand our motives, our reasoning, and HOW THE GAME ACTUALLY WORKS. If you think that you're a better player because you can beat me on FD, SV, and BF, but I can beat you on any other stage in the game, you are WRONG. If you think that stages like Luigi's Mansion or Distant Planet offer "gay, ********, no-skill" wins, then you are not only wrong, but you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Seriously, just stop. You're about as wrong as it gets; please stop posting.

lmao you took that seriously? XD

I do think that you're just butthurt though. I think that post you made proved it :D

 

[Raziek]

Regardless of all the trolling, what we need to see is some transparency here. We need to see WHY these stages are added, we need to know which ones are starters, and we need these guys to say something more than Xyro trolling us.

 

[SuSa]

@BPC

If you think that you're a better player because you can beat me on FD, SV, and BF, but I can beat you on any other stage in the game, you are WRONG.

He'd win the set assuming a 5 stage starter list (that has FD, as most do). Strike down to one of those 3. Beat you there.
Lose on your meaningless counterpick.
You ban one of the remaining 2.
He takes you to the third.
Good game.