Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!

[etecoon]

this thread reminds me of star wars, when the emperor annouced the first galactic empire

and padme was like" so this is how democracy dies, with thunderours applause"

why am i up thininkf of star wars?

it wouldn't be as bad if you could think of something from the original trilogy to equate it to lol

it's a bad analogy though because the BBR was never democratic nor did it care at all about the community to begin with, this is just one shadowy organization replacing another, more like an african warlord overthrowing another than a democracy dying, nothing really changes

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

More like a qualified aristocracy who is willing to make unpopular decisions for everyone's good being overthrown by a warlord...

 

[etecoon]

everyone's good in THEIR opinion, where as this group is made up of TO's that actually listen to their tournament goers while the BBR was like

"k, distant planet is legal now

just trust our randoms that don't attend or organize tournaments on this"

 

[Orion*]

More like a qualified aristocracy who is willing to make unpopular decisions for everyone's good being overthrown by a warlord...

you should write movies, or at least the ideas and all that ****

and then let me make them entertaining to watch. would probably be good

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wow 22 pages of somewhat decent posts. I applaud Orion's post, it was genuinely entertaining and I rather agreed with much of it too.

Kudos to etecoon but do remember, there is an 84 in my name, do you realize how annoying it is to try and name search a thread and have every other Shadowlink pop up? Seriously, its a trifling matter at times.
.

AZ, do remove the whole BBR thing. The BBR did not participate on the matter, and the current definition of the BBR is that of collective 80 individuals. It makes very little sense to try and claim that the group had any sort of affiliation with this ruleset. I don't recall ever endorsing it, i would much appreciate it if you did not say I did. It is rather insulting for you to do such a thing in the first place and you were one of the last people I would expect to do such a thing.

While I do agree with the CONCEPT of creating a unified ruleset, I do believe the method by which it is being done is much more heavy handed than is needed. Not stickying tournaments that don't use this ruleset? Even if stickies don't go around very often, it does send out a message even if this was not your intention in the first place.

The same goes for disregarding the 3.1 ruleset that the BBR actually participated in making which makes sense for having our name. Not only does this say "hey here is the national ruleset the TO's agreed upon", it also says "hey, here is a stagelist that are believed to be competitively viable by a collection of individuals who gave a damn about the game despite the fact they are doing it FOR FREE!"

That way, people will be inclined to use the national set, and then feel free to make tweaks accordingly.
I do think the concept in itself is understandable, but the method by which it is being done is just stupid.

*waits for the title change*


@Etecoon: Yeah U Mad. I bet when you saw Distant Planet you must have **** a brick. God I wish I could see the look on your face if 75M had been there.

 

[etecoon]

I wasn't really expecting you to namesearch it, as I said to beef, usually you just ignore me when I do that rofl

and actually when DP/PTAD were added I played friendlies on those stages all night and laughed over how they would never actually be used, unlike this the BBR's resolutions didn't have actual consequences. likewise I played a lot of PS2 and picto today, and it was funny as ****

 

[ShadowLink84]

I wasn't really expecting you to namesearch it, as I said to beef, usually you just ignore me when I do that rofl

and actually when DP/PTAD were added I played friendlies on those stages all night and laughed over how they would never actually be used, unlike this the BBR's resolutions didn't have actual consequences. likewise I played a lot of PS2 and picto today, and it was funny as ****

I normally don't namesearch for that reason.
I am usually called SL or Shadowlink so its far too generic to search for you know?

Now as for the stagelist, you have to remember it was voted.
If a stage ends up legal, it is because a majority voted it legal.
So, like AZ, don't try to say I endorsed something, I genuinely am willing to share my opinion if you ask rather than you presume it.

Edit: The main reason the BBR did not ever flat out say "this is the official ruleset" is simply because as a collective, the BBR did not have such an incredible power. We could recommend yes, but enforce it? Hardly, the admins on the other hand do have such an ability as do the TO's.
Furthermore, you also have to remember that the BBR was also not attempting to step on anyone's shoes. So it was recommended not demanded.
Considering the behavior of the community overall, frankly it wouldn't have mattered since the resulting behavior and opinion was rather pathetic anyway.

It is why the rest of the idiots rip on BPC since he doesn't bash the BBR like the rest of you meatheads who would be playing the game anyway but wish to run their mouths as if they actually give a damn

People are naturally selfish, the only time they won't complain is if their opinion is listened to, no matter how illogical, how scrubby, how ignorant it may be that is all that matters. It is why this will be a success, since rather than actually entertain the idea of the community being mature and providing a recommendation that they can use as a guideline, AZ and the others plan to use a bit more of a heavy hand on the issue.

It works, but unfortunately as Jack Kieser said, the community was too busy with its head up its *** to cover any ground! Sucks, but thats how it works out in the end.

Which is why I am sure the rest of the BBR is pissed about it, because it does not have to be this way, but it is because the community in itself just is not willing to change unless they are dragged through it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hilarious read - keep it up

 

[SuSa]

Which is why I am sure the rest of the BBR is pissed about it, because it does not have to be this way, but it is because the collective in itself just is not willing to change into a community unless they are dragged through it.

Fixed that last part for you.

Wise words from a great inventor.

If your goal is to try and please everyone...you will fail.

What does a collective try to do? They try to please everyone. Which is why on a large scale - and especially when leading others - they fail.

A community tries to only please the majority, or at least the group closest to those in power in the community. It may fail, but more often than not the group with the power in the end tends to be the large majority. Communities tend to work better on larger scales. Why? Because they don't try to please EVERYONE.

 

[ADHD]

"k, distant planet is legal now

just trust our randoms that don't attend or organize tournaments on this"

This.. does happen.

People who don't attend tournaments don't realize the repercussions of what they're deciding for the tournament scene, and instead take everything they do very lightly.

A dumb stage like Distant Planet or PTAD CAN in fact change the results of a set.

 

[Yikarur]

btw, the ruleset is a USA thing. You are in Canada right? You dont have to follow our rules.......

please leave.

I thought this is a SWF community thing? You just said "US = the community".
THATS WRONG.
Even Europe belongs to this community or what do you think am I doing here?

it's always this "US OVER EVERYTHING" attitude that pisses me off. Even more ridiculous that you exclude Canada which is part of the continent (NORTH-)AMERICA.

the actually BBR follows this community attitude, there are a lot of europeans in that and a lot of people from all over the world that tries to connect the different nations and continents together.

and this concept seems to destroy this effort, good job!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This.. does happen.

People who don't attend tournaments don't realize the repercussions of what they're deciding for the tournament scene, and instead take everything they do very lightly.

A dumb stage like Distant Planet or PTAD CAN in fact change the results of a set.

Of course they can. In the same way a set between Gnes and Tyrant would probably go very differently if they were playing on the Japanese ruleset than if they were playing on the MLG ruleset. This is not a bad thing. I mean, come on, of course results are going to be different. Different players (and characters!!!) perform better on certain stages and worse on others. Why is this a problem?

EDIT: And, for once, I agree with Yikarur 100%.

 

[Orion*]

xyro is absorbed into his own power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNLsTKP4gbw#t=1m42s

 

[rPSIvysaur]

@Europeans/Canadians - Nothing makes this exclusive to anywhere. It's just that the major tournaments in the US have adopted this because of the incentive they receive of having their thread stickied. You do not have to use the ruleset, but it is highly encouraged so you can do well at the national events. It's up to you to convince your local TO to not or to use the ruleset; just like how it was before.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Europeans/Canadians - Nothing makes this exclusive to anywhere. It's just that the major tournaments in the US have adopted this because of the incentive they receive of having their thread stickied. You do not have to use the ruleset, but it is highly encouraged so you can do well at the national events. It's up to you to convince your local TO to not or to use the ruleset; just like how it was before.

Except that no national or regional tournament in Europe ever used any of the stage lists by the BBR to begin with. That's not even Yikarur's complaint though. It's more the "USA is the center of the world" attitude that pisses people off.

 

[Overswarm]

Lol. Even if those claims are legally correct, it's still utter nonsense.

It's not, actually, any more than it would be legal for me to say "AZ says this", depending on the state.

As this has commercial attributes in how TOs run their events (they can make a profit), using the BBR's name could be grounds for a lawsuit if someone was so inclined; this would only be the case if one could prove that they were obviously associated with the BBR in such a way that if someone said "The BBR said X", people would associate that person with X. As we all have purple names, BBR icons, and some of us (like me!) have several threads created under the BBR tag this wouldn't be TOO hard to prove.

There are two distinct legal claims that potentially apply to these kinds of unauthorized uses:
1. Invasion of privacy through misappropriation of name or likeness ("misappropriation")
2. Violation of the right of publicity. (The "right of publicity" is the right of a person to control and make money from the commercial use of his or her identity.)

If a lawyer did take up such a case, they would probably have the biggest difficulty getting past the "Is the BBR the people in it" question. If they could make such an argument, they could potentially have a lawsuit (again, depending on the state they are in). Given that many of us are TOs, it wouldn't be hard to say that making a decision in our name could have monetary concerns for us as we can make money from tournaments.

That's neither here nor there though. The more important thing is that it's just ridiculous in concept.

I suppose we may be operating under different definitions of "underhanded," but when a group uses its position of power to shut down the competition rather than simply defeating it by virtue of being better than the competition, to me, that is a textbook example of being underhanded.

Also, for those who believe in capitalism, one very basic concept in economics is that any time a company tries and succeeds in getting an edge over its competitors by using anything other than supplying a better product at less of a cost, the consumers ultimately lose - I can provide an essay I presented on this which I wrote for the BBR if you're interested.

<3 Crow's brains

 

[AlphaZealot]

There are two distinct legal claims that potentially apply to these kinds of unauthorized uses:

The collective of the BBR does not authorize the use of the name. The admins on Smashboards do, as does the BBR leadership. No BBR member can single handedly do anything without approval from, at a minimun, the BBR leadership. Even larger projects need approval from admins or at least the cooperation and understanding of admins.

The use of the word BBR here is authorized by both Smashboards admins and the BBR leadership.

 

[Orion*]

i call slander

OVERTHROW THE DOMINION!

 

[ぱみゅ]

BBR makes decisions with no people aproval.
Admins does with no BBR aproval....

It seems to be about hierarchy.

 

[B!squick]

Oh yes, question, will you be looking into banning Meta Knight in your official ruleset? I'm going to guess no because it wont hurt support to not ban him though doing so probably would. I guess I kinda answered my own question.

Another question though, will a new ruling for Bowsercides and possibly Ganoncides be looked into?

BBR makes decisions with no people aproval.

Yes, but at least they have the support of the badgers.

 

[Overswarm]

The collective of the BBR does not authorize the use of the name. The admins on Smashboards do, as does the BBR leadership. No BBR member can single handedly do anything without approval from, at a minimun, the BBR leadership. Even larger projects need approval from admins or at least the cooperation and understanding of admins.

The use of the word BBR here is authorized by both Smashboards admins and the BBR leadership.

There are multiple quotes from you all over the BBR saying that we are autonomous and can start projects on our own, so the argument could still be made that by saying "BBR did this" you are unfairly portraying us as taking part in those actions.

Remove the BBR tag from this completely. I don't want your filth associated with my name.

 

[Overswarm]

BBR makes decisions with no people aproval.
Admins does with no BBR aproval....

It seems to be about hierarchy.

The BBR also doesn't force you to use our ruleset. We merely say "we tested this".

 

[sandwhale]

Europe should agree that they will attend the first international tournamanet that decides to change their ruleset to a more conservative one.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

This is a great stagelist. It satisfies both arguments(conservative vs variety). Good job!

 

[ぱみゅ]

Europe should agree that they will attend the first international tournamanet that decides to change their ruleset to a more conservative one.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286613

 

[Orion*]

Europe should agree that they will attend the first international tournamanet that decides to change their ruleset to a more conservative one.

this sounds like plan

 

[AlphaZealot]

There are multiple quotes from you all over the BBR saying that we are autonomous and can start projects on our own, so the argument could still be made that by saying "BBR did this" you are unfairly portraying us as taking part in those actions.

No there aren't. All projects have to be approved by at least one person from the BBR Leadership. This should be commonly known, and is pointed out just about as frequently as new projects arise.

 

[Omni]

I think what AZ meant was we can start our own projects i.e. my OMAR project without having to use the BBR to start it.

 

[Overswarm]

He should have specified. :B

 

[AlphaZealot]

We were talking about using the BBR name, I said you needed approval of the BBR leadership for projects. Since we were on the topic of talking about using the BBR name I did not think I needed to specify that they were projects using the BBR name. People are of course free to do anything they want on their own (Omni's OMAR). However, when it comes to using the BBR name, that has to be approved by BBR Leadership and in some cases also Smashboards administration.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh yes, question, will you be looking into banning Meta Knight in your official ruleset? I'm going to guess no because it wont hurt support to not ban him though doing so probably would. I guess I kinda answered my own question.

I seriously doubt that MK will be banned in this ruleset... Didn't APEX and the last two MLGs kinda kill the MK ban movement? If you were to take the results from MLG independantly of the results from other tournaments, Diddy is more broken than MK.

Another question though, will a new ruling for Bowsercides and possibly Ganoncides be looked into?

I pray to god there won't be. This is one of those rules that can simply and logically be determined as ridiculously anticompetitive as well as setting a horrible precedent.

Europe should agree that they will attend the first international tournamanet that decides to change their ruleset to a more conservative one.

Because being pointlessly anticompetitive and irritating is definitely a european thing. I never understood the fascination in europe with ridiculously limited stagelists, but I'll tell you this-this statement sums up everything that is wrong with most of europe's mindset.

 

[Omni]

for real for real

let's just play brawl. like i understand that people aren't ok with this concept but i dont think everyone will ever be ok with any set concept as long as brawl exist.

logic, justification, politics, authority, doing the 'right' thing. blah blah

all in all this idea isn't going to destroy the community. you can see that it seeks to bring about growth and a positive change even if u don't agree with the concept. more importantly it isn't really killing anyone; local tournaments will still have the same turn-outs regardless of sticky. same applies to big tournaments. if pound 5 didn't follow this stage list im positive that there would be no affect on their attendance

maybe i've just grown weary of fighting over things that essentially always lead back to no where or square one

but as a active brawl player who travels to tournaments often i can say that this change in policy isn't going to do anything except make me adapt to something i don't entirely agree with but don't necessarily disagree with either.

like ive already said this before but just sitting back and thinking on this i think more people are making this more of a big deal than it really is. pride seems to have a lot to do with it

 

[Xyro77]

for real for real

let's just play brawl. like i understand that people aren't ok with this concept but i dont think everyone will ever be ok with any set concept as long as brawl exist.

logic, justification, politics, authority, doing the 'right' thing. blah blah

all in all this idea isn't going to destroy the community. you can see that it seeks to bring about growth and a positive change even if u don't agree with the concept. more importantly it isn't really killing anyone; local tournaments will still have the same turn-outs regardless of sticky. same applies to big tournaments. if pound 5 didn't follow this stage list im positive that there would be no affect on their attendance

maybe i've just grown weary of fighting over things that essentially always lead back to no where or square one

but as a active brawl player who travels to tournaments often i can say that this change in policy isn't going to do anything except make me adapt to something i don't entirely agree with but don't necessarily disagree with either.

like ive already said this before but just sitting back and thinking on this i think more people are making this more of a big deal than it really is. pride seems to have a lot to do with it

yea i see it the same way. ive kinda lost my urge to argue anymore. thats why im glad this unified ruleset is coming together. no more arguing will hold back its growth. People like budget and Raz can keep barking and we will keep moving forward.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I find Omni's post ultimatly dumb.
yet, the best answer that topic could ever get....

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I find it seriously funny that those who are saying "let's just play brawl" back rulesets that don't respect that at all.

The ruleset is a ridiculously important part of tournament play. I mean, you heard it from ADHD; the ruleset can help determine the winner of a match. And when the ruleset is simply thrown together, or worse, built off of false conclusions and full of ridiculous and hypocritical rulings (ganoncide ruling, for example), then it does not reflect well on the competitive tournament environment. When you ignore logical steps in creating the ruleset ("Nah, 5-starters is fine, your logic is stupid" without even really looking at it; "Why not have a ganoncide rule? Only buffs the worst char in the game" without looking at the rules that could be allowed analogously to that, "Banning infinites is totally the way to go" without looking at the big picture), the ruleset becomes more hypocritical, less logical, and less competitive. And this is just with examples that are pretty obvious, but that I'm pretty sure this ruleset will either not address universally, or will get wrong.

Sick of arguing? Then please, either admit that you're being extremely illogical and wrong, or change your ruleset to reflect what is right. Not "what is right in our eyes", what is simply right.

 

[Omni]

im sorry and no offense

but i take your words as a grain of salt, bpc

like i've seen you on SWF arguing and yelling and sarcastically trying to argue the game

and i still have no idea who you are

 

[swordgard]

yea i see it the same way. ive kinda lost my urge to argue anymore. thats why im glad this unified ruleset is coming together. no more arguing will hold back its growth. People like budget and Raz can keep barking and we will keep moving forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism


Yup. Rule of men, not rule of logic.


I still don't see how this is anything but an ego trip for you.
"I don't argue, I don't care what you think, I know more because I am from the melee era, I will continue to do what I want."

 

[Overswarm]

He's from "across the pond', as it were

 

[Overswarm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism


Yup. Rule of men, not rule of logic.


I still don't see how this is anything but an ego trip for you.
"I don't argue, I don't care what you think, I know more because I am from the melee era, I will continue to do what I want."

After being ridiculed and kicked out of the BBR, this is his next best shot. :B

 

[swordgard]

im sorry and no offense

but i take your words as a grain of salt, bpc

like i've seen you on SWF arguing and yelling and sarcastically trying to argue the game

and i still have no idea who you are

How does that affect his argument?