crouch cancelling jabs

[ckm]

EDIT: SORRY GUYS, MY TITLE IS INCORRECT. WHAT I AM REFERRING TO IS ACTUALLY "JAB CANCELLING". A THOUSAND PARDONS. THANKS FOR POINTING IT OUT.

I see alot of discussion about using crouch to cancel the jab, jab strings, but very little explanation for it. I have asked this in another thread and had a couple of decent responses, but would like to explore it further. I have tested these out in training mode a bit, but am having trouble determining whether I do it right.

I seem to get the most benefit from using cc when doing jab, jab, JAB CANCEL, jab, jab (this obviously won't work well without JAB CANCEL, as you will finish the jab), and the jab, jab, JAB CANCEL, grab strings. I also think I see a very slight benefit to using it with smashes. I don't see much benefit, however to using it with FP or tilts. These seem to come out about as fast if I just pause a moment and perform the third move. I realize that with JAB CANCELLing you dont have to pause, but (unless im doing it wrong) the time spent inputting the JAB CANCEL seems to take about as long as the pause that its supposed to replace.

If I try speeding it up (basically shortening the amount of time I spend pressing down/ pressing down sooner/ performing the third move sooner after pressing down), I usually just end up performing the third jab.

I have heard that using JAB CANCEL makes the jab,jab, fp string harder to spotdodge out of, but it doesnt seem noticeably faster to me.

Are there any videos of the timing of JAB CANCELLED jab strings? Any advice you guys might have for me?

Thanks alot, and sorry for the relatively long read.

 

[Nurotasama]

From what I can tell, all Crouch-canceling should do is input the command for crouch, which causes a break in the AAA. Normally after AA if you perform an A you will end up just using the third jab. By inputting a crouch at an appropriate timing it would break the sequence and allow you to use other attack options (such as tilts or smashes).

 

[Shack]

Just a lil tip (unless brawl calls it diff)

CC is diff. CC is when u crouch and cancel the Knock back from an attack (in melee). I think what u mean is jab cancel, when u press down after a jab. Just thought ud like to know.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

jab -> down on the control stick is jab canceling not crouch canceling

crouch canceling isn't in brawl T-T

 

[ckm]

ok sorry for the mistake. I am just repeating what others have told me.

I know what jab cancelling is, I am just wondering about the timing. I know how it is (supposed) to work.

However, what I am trying to say is that I recieve little to no BENEFIT from doing it, as far as I can tell.

When I JAB cancel, it only works when I hold down (after the first two jabs)for a short moment (maybe .25 secs?).... I have tried doing the same thing without holding down, and simply pausing for the same amount of time. It seems to work just as well.

SO.... now that we have the name of the technique established, can anyone help me out?

 

[ckm]

From what I can tell, all Crouch-canceling should do is input the command for crouch, which causes a break in the AAA. Normally after AA if you perform an A you will end up just using the third jab. By inputting a crouch at an appropriate timing it would break the sequence and allow you to use other attack options (such as tilts or smashes).

I know what it is, and I know what the function is supposed to be. It just doesnt seem to help much when I do it.

Basically what I'm asking is this: has it been tested/recorded/proven that the jab cancel actually makes the string faster than just doing jab, jab, *short pause*, whatever?

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

I know what it is, and I know what the function is supposed to be. It just doesnt seem to help much when I do it.

Basically what I'm asking is this: has it been tested/recorded/proven that the jab cancel actually makes the string faster than just doing jab, jab, *short pause*, whatever?

I'm not sure if it makes it faster, but it's more precise and allows you to do additional jabs much quicker.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

i use jab cancel a lot and string it with other moves.

 

[D. Disciple]

I know what it is, and I know what the function is supposed to be. It just doesnt seem to help much when I do it.

Basically what I'm asking is this: has it been tested/recorded/proven that the jab cancel actually makes the string faster than just doing jab, jab, *short pause*, whatever?

Here is a way to tell the difference between regular jabbing and jab cancelling.

Go into training mode and do Lucario's regular jab against the computer, then do the same thing with jab cancelling, look for the difference.

Jab cancelling is still useful with Lucario though, cause if you get the timing down when you whiff one jab cause of your opponent spotdodging, they won't be able to spotdodge the next hit, since Lucario doesn't move when he does his jabs.

Sorry if this sounds confusing, I'm extremely tired.

 

[ckm]

Hey guys, I made this post a few months back, and still haven't gotten an answer to my original question...

has anyone actually tested the benefit of jab cancelling with lucario? It seems to me that I can do jab cancelled things just as fast without inputting down on the control stick... i just pause slightly instead, and the pause is just as long as it would otherwise take to hit down on the control stick.

Hope that makes sense, and sorry for digging up old threads, I just really want to know the answer to this. thanks.

 

[Nubsta5]

The only real benefit to jab canceling for Lucario is to buffer a specific tilt or smash attack a bit more accurately without running a higher risk of completing the jab combo. Other than that, Lucario's jabs aren't useful enough to cancel often, and his cancel is rather slow.

 

[ckm]

The only real benefit to jab canceling for Lucario is to buffer a specific tilt or smash attack a bit more accurately without running a higher risk of completing the jab combo. Other than that, Lucario's jabs aren't useful enough to cancel often, and his cancel is rather slow.

ah yes, buffering the move would be a benefit, if all else was equal. interesting.

So there IS a small amount of lag reduced in this fashion? Interesting. I suppose it doesn't make our jab>jab> tricks noticeably harder to punish or avoid for good players, am I right?

I'd like to hear from other skilled players whether they use this or not. I have seemed to do just fine without it until now, and I play against good players.

Thanks for answering my question.

 

[Timbers]

If you're cancelling into more jabs then the crouch is necessary.

But Luc's jabs are really too slow to cancel into anything outside of maybe a grab, and you're cancelling his jabs with a dash anyways if you're going in for the grab (unless they're right on top of you, because luc's grabrange is pretty hilarious)

 

[ckm]

thanks timbers.

good point about the dash cancelling the jab combo when doing the running grab, i never realized that.

 

[Nubsta5]

You can also cancel a jab combo's lag by turning around in place (up tilt anyone?).

And, btw, I'm not saying you're canceling any lag that the jab may produce, because in order for Luc to be able to crouch and effectively cancel the lag of the jab, he's crouching at the first possible IASA frame of that jab. Since most other attacks require a different button besides A, or a direction, it's easier to buffer the move using it's own input (when you know the timing) so that it becomes present on the first possible Jab IASA frame. The biggest thing I was mentioning when jab canceling was allowing yourself to buffer things a lot more accurately without just buffering an extra (late) jab (i.e. a grab, which can end up jabbing if you don't buffer properly without a jab cancel; another jab combo; or an f-tilt without dashing or slightly walking forward before performing it).

 

[D. Disciple]

You can't jab cancel into an utilt.

You can use jab cancel combos in situations. Perfect time to do it is when Lucario is around 20-30% of Damage, when the opponent is about to land. Cause it will keep them popped up for awhile. You can do probably 3-4 good jab cancels, into a grab, dtilt and yes even an Aura Smash. I've gotten this done on DK's, Dedede's and Snake. Snake is really risky but sometimes worth it if you want him to stay off the stage. Jab canceling is also beneficial on light characters as well, just be careful of Ness, Peach and Meta's Nair. For it will **** you.

 

[Nubsta5]

How many times now have I said you can jab cancel into ANY up tilt? Reverse up tilt even more so (although it has a high chance of being powershielded).

 

[Timbers]

How many times now have I said you can jab cancel into ANY up tilt? Reverse up tilt even more so (although it has a high chance of being powershielded).

me and wuffpup bothered with this last summer. jab jab utilt is heavily situational to be a true combo. Every other time it got powershielded

 

[D. Disciple]

Noted I have also experimented this for months now nubsta5, and what Timbers says is true. It does get powershielded and spot dodged. If you try to do a reverse utilt, then make sure the opponent is not on the ground, cause his 2nd jab pops them up, while the first one pulls them toward Lucario.

 

[Timbers]

also has to be noted that if your opponent expects to be utilted, he can SDI into the ground to ruin the utilt.

 

[Nubsta5]

How many times now have I said you can jab cancel into ANY up tilt? Reverse up tilt even more so (although it has a high chance of being powershielded).

^^^

Does that say anything about being a true combo, or even working all the time? I'm mostly just defending it as an option because it comes out rather quick (but has a good amount of lag after).

 

[Timbers]

you were implying that utilt should be recognized the most in regards to jab cancels into tilts. I would easily put ftilt over utilt, or even dtilt over utilt.