Crouching against Tornado *now with in game demonstration*

[Attila_]

ok, i played with a few things today and im pretty sure i know how we to pull nades out during tornado. problem is, its not something you can force. whether or not you can do it depends on how faster the mk is mashing B. fast mashing makes it impossible, slow mashing allows you to do it. this happens without you being popped up either.

this also applies to shield grabbing mk out of the tornado. although the height has to be right also.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

that's why I said varying between backwards and facing ur oponent. also u can just press shield , bair , get the granade at hand. and also Z drop it if u want.

Or you can be cool and instant up-smash oos, since it has a hitbox behind snake.

 

[Attila_]

do we have those videos yet, RH?

 

[OverLade]

I got sick 2 days ago and can't muster up the motivation. I'll sift through the replays on my wii later to find what I need and try to throw together a vid...

 

[Mister Cadaver]

Is it like b sticking the grenade while you're in the tornado? o_O

 

[OverLade]

Is it like b sticking the grenade while you're in the tornado? o_O

Yeah that's exactly what it is. But it might require simultaneous jump input or something.

 

[Mister Cadaver]

I'm going to have to play with this then.

 

[Limeee]

can't wait for the video RH

the best defence is always having grenades on platforms, especially the ones on BF because you can crawl if you need to avoid them

 

[OverLade]

can't wait for the video RH

the best defence is always having grenades on platforms, especially the ones on BF because you can crawl if you need to avoid them

Not always the best defense, but a good defense. I might add this is something that I haven't even made habit, and it's a very useful and safe setup, especially if you have port priority (MK can't dashgrab you etc... (Dash shielding would be his safest option, and the explosion would push him back so it's unlikely he could Shuttle loop you OOS).

A good setup for having nades on platforms that I use often is when I pull out a nade while landing on a platform after getting juggled, I drop it. Then I run off the opposite side and fall and reverse nade so Im facing my opponent. That way I have a nade on the platform and one ready to throw. Now Im gonna start crouching under the nade on the platform after throwing the first one to make it habit, or I can drop the 2nd nade, crouch, while the other one blows up to cook the 2nd one, then throw it.

This is the kind of stuff you have to actually go into training mode and invent btw, I actually don't do this much but I think I'm going to try and make more of a habit of it...

 

[OverLade]

OMG I just came up with a sick defensive and nade cooking setup.

While you're not always going to be landing on platforms, instead you and toss a grenade up in front of you onto a BF platform, then drop another one immediately. Crouching under the first one, and wait. The second it explodes throw the other one, and it'll be perfectly cooked for about half the range of BF. ****.

 

[etecoon]

This is the kind of stuff you have to actually go into training mode and invent btw

quote for emphasis, training mode is very underutilized by a lot of people

 

[OverLade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0P3zi2WplY

Vid demonstrating the nade tech I just described. Sorry I haven't come out with the video for crouching/reverse nading, I'll try and make it with my brother today.

 

[Attila_]

nice work there RH, i never really thought of crouching like that.

pretty sure you can only pull a nade during nado if he presses B slowly, for those who were wondering...

 

[OverLade]

It's easier to get out (jump/airdodge) if MK mashes harder though, so there might be a trade off. I have no problem getting out when MKs mash at the normal rate, so we'll see if there's a different reward depending on how they mash.

 

[Attila_]

ive actually found it to be easiest to jump out by not pressing anything at all... would you agree?

 

[etecoon]

with lighter characters I've often popped out of nado without doing anything much, not snake though

and it might be a trade off but you can't really do both at once though can you? so you have to know what they're doing(guess or if the room is quiet you can hear them mashing)

 

[Attila_]

logically mk will try to ac the nado, cause it makes following up with something easier and getting punished harder. if theyre on the ground, theyre most likely mashing. if slightly above youre head, they wont be pressing much. etc.

 

[etecoon]

I was thinking about this at work last night(is that sad?), has anyone tried the "shield grab MK out of nado" thing? how well does that work? if you're crouching and he auto-cancels the nado, can you do anything that covers both sides effectively as he may come down on top of you to cross up? I know DIing out of dair is very easy as MK, I thought about maybe popping up as the hitbox vanishes and pivot grabbing but haven't tested or tried it at all, dtilt and bair have hitboxes that cover almost all of snake's body...crawl backward > utilt? need to find an MK to actually try all this stupid stuff on as I doubt most of it works <_<

 

[Infern Angelis]

shield grab? the tornado will still hit you if its on u

 

[OverLade]

with lighter characters I've often popped out of nado without doing anything much, not snake though

and it might be a trade off but you can't really do both at once though can you? so you have to know what they're doing(guess or if the room is quiet you can hear them mashing)

logically mk will try to ac the nado, cause it makes following up with something easier and getting punished harder. if theyre on the ground, theyre most likely mashing. if slightly above youre head, they wont be pressing much. etc.

I was thinking about this at work last night(is that sad?), has anyone tried the "shield grab MK out of nado" thing? how well does that work? if you're crouching and he auto-cancels the nado, can you do anything that covers both sides effectively as he may come down on top of you to cross up? I know DIing out of dair is very easy as MK, I thought about maybe popping up as the hitbox vanishes and pivot grabbing but haven't tested or tried it at all, dtilt and bair have hitboxes that cover almost all of snake's body...crawl backward > utilt? need to find an MK to actually try all this stupid stuff on as I doubt most of it works <_<

The shieldgrab on nado should never work. You literally have to be nadoing low directly on their grab hitbox which almost never happens.

And crouching is best to relieve shield pressure (as some MKs nado once then nado against etc) but if you feel confident in Utilting it, go for it.

And don't assume anything about the way MKs generally tornado. Different MKs will try different stuff and have to be punished differently. Some MKs tornado high because they know it's safer but some don't, and some will do it differently depending on when/where you are. I would personally use Shielding/Utilting nado as my initial option, and resort to crouching if they went for a shieldpoke or tried to bait my Utilt. Keep in mind tornado isn't necessarily easy to punish if they retreat even if you do it low.

 

[etecoon]

The shieldgrab on nado should never work. You literally have to be nadoing low directly on their grab hitbox which almost never happens.

I'm aware that MK shouldn't do this, but I was thinking

don't assume anything about the way MKs generally tornado. Different MKs will try different stuff and have to be punished differently. Some MKs tornado high because they know it's safer but some don't

plus an MK that doesn't have experience with a snake that just ducks their tornados may do the wrong thing and lower it...I was really just asking what the probability of successfully getting the grab off is AFTER they've made the mistake of tornadoing there, however rare that may be, as I haven't had a chance to test it at all yet

 

[OverLade]

I see, but to cut it short, the probability of grabbing MK out of tornado if he doesn't tornado directly on the middle of snake's torso is zero. You can torando low and still "bite" snake's shield with the edge of tornado, plus in order to grab him out of it, he'd have to stay still for about a second, and that would never happen regardless.

 

[OverLade]

Okay guys I know I sorta dropped the ball on this, but I have some interesting stuff upload right now.

They're wifi matches vs. Jband (A MK/luigi main from ATL north).

"So what Halz?"

They're not entirely representative of offline or anything, but I show off a lot of what makes crouching under tornado EXTREMELY useful. They'll be uploading over the course of the day, so please check them out if you have a chance (plus my snake is fuggin smexy).

http://www.youtube.com/user/Redhalberd

My channel.

 

[OverLade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loBNVJU9W4M

1:46 is a perfect example. My shield was diminshed from tornado. I had a nade in play, but by crouching I could avoid trading hits, or risking getting utilt baited (or just mistiming the utilt in general).

 

[6Mizu]

Okay guys I know I sorta dropped the ball on this, but I have some interesting stuff upload right now.

They're wifi matches vs. Jband (A MK/luigi main from ATL north).

"So what Halz?"

They're not entirely representative of offline or anything, but I show off a lot of what makes crouching under tornado EXTREMELY useful. They'll be uploading over the course of the day, so please check them out if you have a chance (plus my snake is fuggin smexy).

http://www.youtube.com/user/Redhalberd

My channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loBNVJU9W4M

1:46 is a perfect example. My shield was diminshed from tornado. I had a nade in play, but by crouching I could avoid trading hits, or risking getting utilt baited (or just mistiming the utilt in general).

Awesome triple post! lol

But in all seriousness, nice demonstration. I'll try it out.
Good Job!