Dash attack or "cartwheel" follow-ups! ALL OF THEM FOR I AM A NERD!

[rinoH]

nice job Chrome your such a nerd lol

 

[Kaptain Kong]

i like how you list the useless ones too
what about dash attack to peanut gun or rocket barrels? lol

 

[CrAzYdRuNk]

Dash attack is useless against a shield...Dash attack=getting shield grabbed, in the rare event they don't shield grab it, I Usmash to eat away their shield and maybe the last 1 or 2 hits of the Usmash hit them. So I either hit them with 2/3 hits of the Usmash for say 12 damage, or get grabbed/punished for Dash Attack for say 12% plus opportunities for more. This is a horrible tradeoff for Diddy, especially when facing someone like Snake where Diddy needs almost a 2-1 Damage Ratio to stay even with Snake. So basically what I was saying is I need another approach because Banana->Banana->Dash Attack only works on amateurs.

Are you saying they can still shield after 2 bananas have been thrown? That means they've been holding it a good amount of time, and if your dash attacking directly after the bananas, they're going to get hit. If they still decide to shield, you just picked up one of the bananas that bounced of the shield. Use it. If they're still shielding, they're shield is going to break. Seriously, two bananas and a dash attack takes enough time that they'll be forced to come out of the shield at least after the dash attack. Because of the little lag, you can easily glide-toss into them with the banana to get the trip.

 

[rvkevin]

Are you saying they can still shield after 2 bananas have been thrown? That means they've been holding it a good amount of time, and if your dash attacking directly after the bananas, they're going to get hit. If they still decide to shield, you just picked up one of the bananas that bounced of the shield. Use it. If they're still shielding, they're shield is going to break. Seriously, two bananas and a dash attack takes enough time that they'll be forced to come out of the shield at least after the dash attack. Because of the little lag, you can easily glide-toss into them with the banana to get the trip.

Ok, lets go through this again, I Glide Toss two bananas at them, they perfect shield them, which doesn't degrade the shield at all, and they are somewhere in front of the opponent and I am banana-less. If I try to dash attack either to pick up the banana or to hit them, I will get punished by a Fsmash (my buddy plays Wolf), Bair, shieldgrab, Dsmash, or Fair and the Fair also picks up the banana. I don't get why you think they would hold shield the entire time, all they have to do is perfect shield two projectiles and shield a dash attack, in which they can shield grab it in between the hits of the attack or punish it with a move with more priority. So, they actually only need to shield the two bananas, use an aerial to hit you and pick up a banana and then they have them to use against you, so it leaves you in worse shape. This is why I was looking to alternative approaches, this doesn't work on the competitive level. How do you pick up a banana that is in front of your opponent (mind you, dash attack doesn't work)?

 

[Kaptain Kong]

you could end your dash attack just out of shield grab range, instant ground throw, or ftilt to push their shield back

 

[The_Prince]

or sh nair to pick the nanner up while still being free to DI

 

[CrAzYdRuNk]

Ok, lets go through this again, I Glide Toss two bananas at them, they perfect shield them, which doesn't degrade the shield at all, and they are somewhere in front of the opponent and I am banana-less. If I try to dash attack either to pick up the banana or to hit them, I will get punished by a Fsmash (my buddy plays Wolf), Bair, shieldgrab, Dsmash, or Fair and the Fair also picks up the banana. I don't get why you think they would hold shield the entire time, all they have to do is perfect shield two projectiles and shield a dash attack, in which they can shield grab it in between the hits of the attack or punish it with a move with more priority. So, they actually only need to shield the two bananas, use an aerial to hit you and pick up a banana and then they have them to use against you, so it leaves you in worse shape. This is why I was looking to alternative approaches, this doesn't work on the competitive level. How do you pick up a banana that is in front of your opponent (mind you, dash attack doesn't work)?

Oh, they perfect shield them? Well that's different. Then your screwed on approaching, but you could try to drop back and spam peanuts at them, and have them approach, until the bananas degenerate, or you can get into a position to use them.

And if they perfect shield both, your still gonna be able to pull of a dash attack almost directly out of the glide-toss, so if they can shield all of the hits from that, your probably in decent shape. Hopefully when they've shielded the bananas, the bananas bounce to the front of them so the dash attack picks them up, and because of the near lagless dash attack ending, you can just dribble into them.

If that doesn't work, I would always have two bananas close when I wanted to approach, and possibly vary the timings? I don't know, it might work. Or you could dribble once, then glide-toss to hopefully throw off their timing and have them miss the shield.

 

[Ingulit]

As per someone's suggestion, I'll throw this into the mix for the second scenario. It's not a perfect combo, but when you're mixing it up with other Dash Attack combos, you'll hit it most of the time (at least, such has been the case in my experience). It's Dash Attack > Reverse Boosted Pivot Grab.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219637

 

[T_E_S]

Wut Wut Wut.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Wasn't there talk about DA > Side B at one point?

Always seemed iffy to me.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

yeah, it doesnt usually work if they di or at high percents

 

[I Hate Potassium]

Lol, you're a nerd.


Falco>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Diddy

 

[ADHD]

^^^ I will obliverate your falco you *****

 

[CrAzYdRuNk]

^^^ I will obliverate your falco you *****

I want the replay.

 

[OmegaExile]

ADHD ur a G man. Nice threads...good ****. I need to tell u some stuff i've figured out with diddy someday.

 

[Dekar173]

What if they DI through you and receive no knockback, and just punish you? Oh wait, that's all that'll happen from it -.-

Lately, my opponents have been DIing dash attack so well that it's just pointless for me to even use in, unless if it pushes them into a trip animation or something situational like that.

I love DI, but at the same time hate it.

 

[LanceStern]

I guess it's worth mentioning the dash attack can have a lot of moves buffered out of it. Dash attak -> usmash, dsmash, forward smash or aerials is beautiful.

I've never seen an attack with so many buffer options. Just throw the command in duing the second foot hitting the opponents and watch Diddy do his thang

 

[ADHD]

What if they DI through you and receive no knockback, and just punish you? Oh wait, that's all that'll happen from it -.-

Lately, my opponents have been DIing dash attack so well that it's just pointless for me to even use in, unless if it pushes them into a trip animation or something situational like that.

I love DI, but at the same time hate it.

Dekar there is no smash DI that puts them out of a gauranteed follow up unless it's behind you, but in that case it's still very fast for you to hit them while they're vunerable. Otherwise these are all legitimate combos.

 

[Dekar173]

You have to space it properly so you just land the last hitbox, I'd assume. But then, you're attacking while they have plenty of time to shield, and being forced into a shieldgrab scenario.

Dash attack isn't that good against those who know how to get around it.

 

[ADHD]

You have to space it properly so you just land the last hitbox, I'd assume. But then, you're attacking while they have plenty of time to shield, and being forced into a shieldgrab scenario.

Dash attack isn't that good against those who know how to get around it.

You really think so? Dash attack is impossible to avoid if they're in a trip animation or a vunerable time like airdodging down to the ground.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I concur with ADHD, dash attack is amazing if you know how to use it (aka there is no "getting around it").

 

[DMG]

Dash attacks saving grace is the last hit. The first two hits let the opponent SDI through you/stay on the ground and punish. Even at higher % when it slightly pops them up after the second hit, they basically get out of anything guaranteed.

 

[Dekar173]

Well in that case, if you're talking about when an opponent has been tripped or they're landed from an airdodge, I'd rather grab and uthrow them back into the air.

Also after rereading all of my posts they seem to have a "skeptical *******" sort of feel to them, that's not what I'm going for. I was just trying to say that you REALLY have to much more careful with dash attack than the thread leads one to believe. The follow-ups are all good, etc. BUT one needs to remember that their opponent CAN and WILL SDI through the dash attack (if it's not spaced properly).

Otherwise, it's good to always remember one's choices when the opponent HAS fallen for our traps :D

 

[rvkevin]

Even if they SDI out of it, are they able to hit us before our followup if we are able to see there DI...If I see someone DI behind me, I will simply GT backwards and throw a banana up at them...I you mean that the dash attack doesn't knock them into the air, I would think turning around and grabbing would be effective. Do you have a video where the opponent SDI's the dash attack and punishes Diddy before he followups, I just don't see it often enough for it to be a problem?

 

[Dekar173]

Even if they SDI out of it, are they able to hit us before our followup if we are able to see there DI...If I see someone DI behind me, I will simply GT backwards and throw a banana up at them...I you mean that the dash attack doesn't knock them into the air, I would think turning around and grabbing would be effective. Do you have a video where the opponent SDI's the dash attack and punishes Diddy before he followups, I just don't see it often enough for it to be a problem?

If mine and Dojo's MM had been recorded at SWAT, I'd be able to show you. He DI'd through and punished me 9 times out of 10, not kidding. It hurt my feelings =P

 

[rvkevin]

Why must we always be talking about MK? There are other characters in the game, over-centralize the metagame much? Seems like every time I say something I need to put the caveat: MK excluded. MK's weight makes him hard to combo in general so its not surprised he can get away quickly enough at anything more than zero percent. Who said being lightweight was a disadvantage. End rant.

Back to the subject at hand...Are you able to shield the Dair/other? If yes, you can expect him to do that move 90% of the time and be able to followup accordingly. If not, sucks to be Diddy. I would suspect that DI'ing out of the dash attack would not be enough to escape all follow ups 100% of the time for the majority of the characters, MK excluded.

 

[DMG]

If Diddy hits with ONLY the very last hit of Dash attack, they cannot DI it 100% to avoid a follow up. However, if one of the earlier hits of Dash Attack lands, they can SDI themselves to avoid a true follow up. This is for characters in General, not just MK exclusive.

Dekar pointed out his MM with Dojo not because he's MK, but because he's a good enough player to know how to punish Dash attack/SDI through it very consistently.

 

[rvkevin]

I still don't follow.

They SDI up, and Dair? Or, they SDI to the side and Fair, Bair? And they connect in the cool down animation of the Dash Attack?

I'm pretty sure being MK has a lot to do with it, his DJ Dair is able to intercept Diddy if his followups don't truly combo. I know that good players know how to SDI multi-hit moves, its just that I've never seen the method of punishing Dash Attack so easily. The better we know what they are able to do allows us to be more innovative in our followups...

Edit: Just watched Dojo v Alphazealot from Genesis, I don't know what you're referring to, since Dojo didn't punish AZ for a single Dash Attack.

 

[Dekar173]

@DMG- Spot on, just like you said, it has nothing to do with Dojo playing MK, but instead it has to do with Dojo's skill level.

@rvkevin- If you're connecting with the first few hits of dash attack, they merely SDI through you, and end up ON THE GROUND behind you while you're still in your attack animation, and then they choose how to surprise buttsex you.

I don't know how else I can explain it aside from saying you're NOT popping them into the air with the last hit of your dash attack, they're SDIing OUT of it, and into punishing you.

 

[rvkevin]

Just fooled around in training mode...If you mis space the Dash Attack, the 3rd hit doesn't connect and they end up on the ground behind you ready to Dsmash while cooling down from the 3rd hit...No DI involved, if a stationary computer can do it, I'm not surprised Dojo was able to do it so consistently. If you happen to mis space it, you can turn around and do a running Usmash, although I wouldn't really suggest that, better to just space the Dash Attack correctly...

If thats not it, then I'm stumped since Dojo wasn't able to do it against AZ, and when I played M2K, I remember Dash Attack to Utilt was fairly guaranteed and its not like M2K doesn't know how to DI.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

Just fooled around in training mode...If you mis space the Dash Attack, the 3rd hit doesn't connect and they end up on the ground behind you ready to Dsmash while cooling down from the 3rd hit...No DI involved, if a stationary computer can do it, I'm not surprised Dojo was able to do it so consistently. If you happen to mis space it, you can turn around and do a running Usmash, although I wouldn't really suggest that, better to just space the Dash Attack correctly...

If thats not it, then I'm stumped since Dojo wasn't able to do it against AZ, and when I played M2K, I remember Dash Attack to Utilt was fairly guaranteed and its not like M2K doesn't know how to DI.

i thought this was already known? its just hitting with the last part of the dash attack

maybe you can smash di the first two so that the third doesnt hit (that is, if all parts were going to hit without di)

 

[rvkevin]

i thought this was already known? its just hitting with the last part of the dash attack

maybe you can smash di the first two so that the third doesnt hit (that is, if all parts were going to hit without di)

I guess two people didn't know, but not everyone is in the dBR to learn all this useless information. Even if you hit with the first two parts of the dash attack, they still fall behind you, its the third hit thats actaully hits them up. And since Dojo didn't implement it against AZ, it leads me to believe that Dekar was just spacing it wrong and it not that Dojo was able to DI it. There's no reason why Dojo would use it against one Diddy and not the other.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

Sorry, but not everyone is in the dBR to learn all this useless information. Even if you hit with the first two parts of the dash attack, they still fall behind you, its the third hit thats actaully hits them up. And since Dojo didn't implement it against AZ, it leads me to believe that Dekar was just spacing it wrong and it not that Dojo was able to DI it. There's no reason why Dojo would use it against one Diddy and not the other.

this was never mentioned in the dBR, its mostly covered in the op, and i remember it coming up in the q and a thread i believe

i agree that it was just a spacing error, sorry if i seemed stuck up

 

[DMG]

Ok I will explain this more in depth:

Dash attack has three hitboxes. The last one pops them up a bit in front of you. If you hit with JUST THIS PART, THEY CANNOT 100% GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FOLLOW UP. THIS INCLUDES SDI AND DI. If you only hit with the very last part, even Godly SDI/DI is not guaranteed to save you.

IF you hit with an earlier hit, say hit #2 or #1, THEY CAN SDI OUT OF IT AND ALMOST 100% GUARANTEE THAT YOU CANNOT FOLLOW UP ON IT.

If you see someone get hit by more than 1 part of Dash attack, then most of the time they can SDI out of it. Just because they CAN SDI out of it doesn't mean that they will notice every time that they can do so (notice that they are being hit with more than one part of Dash attack), or they might have flubbed their SDI and it didn't give them their desired effect. So if you see Dojo vs AZ and it looks like Dojo didn't SDI out of Dash attack much, it means that either AZ was spacing it to where he only connects with the last hit, or Dojo messed up his SDI/didn't notice that he was being hit with more than one part of Dash attack.

 

[rvkevin]

IF you hit with an earlier hit, say hit #2 or #1, THEY CAN SDI OUT OF IT AND ALMOST 100% GUARANTEE THAT YOU CANNOT FOLLOW UP ON IT.

If you see someone get hit by more than 1 part of Dash attack, then most of the time they can SDI out of it. Just because they CAN SDI out of it doesn't mean that they will notice every time that they can do so (notice that they are being hit with more than one part of Dash attack), or they might have flubbed their SDI and it didn't give them their desired effect. So if you see Dojo vs AZ and it looks like Dojo didn't SDI out of Dash attack much, it means that either AZ was spacing it to where he only connects with the last hit, or Dojo messed up his SDI/didn't notice that he was being hit with more than one part of Dash attack.

I disagree.

I have never seen a top player SDI out of the Dash Attack yet in such a way they were in a position to punish you. AZ did hit Dojo with all three hits so he was able to SDI it every time, but failed to do so, and almost every time it was after a banana connected, which would have prepared him for the hit. Its not Dojo, its not SDI, its a spacing issue where the 3rd hit doesn't connect while at a low percent, only a video could convince me otherwise.

 

[Dojo]

I'm gonna go ahead and put out there, that I didn't give my 100% against AZ.

I <3 you AZ.

 

[Gnes]

I'm gonna go ahead and put out there, that I didn't give my 100% against AZ.

I <3 you AZ.

Dude...GTFO. U dont play diddy, u play kirby. And stop beating me...hacker.

 

[Hobs]

I don't think I saw it in there, so...
What is the best thing to do when you pick up a banana from the dash attack (for all 3 situations, I guess)?

 

[Kaptain Kong]

gt up, throw back, throw up i would guess