DBR Presents: GENESIS 2 :: ROUND 1 SINGLES POOLS ARE UP - GENESISDBR.COM

[Grim Tuesday]

ITT: Spam_arrows is a scrubby noob.

You shouldn't treat Wobbling as something "extra" that ICs players have. It is built into their character as much as Shine is a part of Fox's character. Who cares if ICs players do better with it legal? Who cares if they don't need it to win? The same arguments could be made for any tactic that any other character uses.

Banning it is a double standard, as Jonas pointed out above me. Get over your bias, Spam.

 

[Red the Ghost]

One grab from ICs at low %= death
One grab from Jiggs on spacies at low % = death
One shine from Fox on anybody with moderate/poor recovery at low % = death

using your logic:

"Post a video of you playing one set in which you do not get shined off the edge one time and I will shut up"

At high level play it is impossible for this to happen.

Ban shine (and rest, too).


Several characters have very easy early kill options. IC's should not be barred from this, even if it sucks when it happens to you.

 

[Lion]

so.. is there going to be a livestream today? I was watching a blank screen from 5pm (supposed to start at 7pm my timezone) to 2am last night, then woke up at 4:30am and it still wasn't up.

will there be one today? if not i'll ignore smashboards for a while to not spoil the results for myself, would like to get some enjoyment out of the tournament one way or another.

thanks

 

[Archangel]

It's like getting shine-spiked off the stage at 0% or getting gimped early by Sheik really. If we make a rule that Ice Climbers shouldn't be able to get a free KO off 1 opening, why shouldn't this rule apply to other characters?

It is different by nature. Wobbling is more like stalling with Peach in or samus under battlefield. You can do something about getting tossed off the edge by shiek. Fox's shine is SDI techable and getting shined off at 0% is to LOL to ban if it happens anymore in the year 2011. If you are put in a situation when you are being wobbled there is no way out of it.

ITT: Spam_arrows is a scrubby noob.

You shouldn't treat Wobbling as something "extra" that ICs players have. It is built into their character as much as Shine is a part of Fox's character. Who cares if ICs players do better with it legal? Who cares if they don't need it to win? The same arguments could be made for any tactic that any other character uses.

Banning it is a double standard, as Jonas pointed out above me. Get over your bias, Spam.

once again they are nearly unrelated. How is it a double standard? If wobbling is unbanned why not unban stall tactics like Peach’s wall-bombing, or Jigglypuff’s rising pound? They are more like wobbling in the sense that your opponent really cannot do anything.

One grab from ICs at low %= death
One grab from Jiggs on spacies at low % = death
One shine from Fox on anybody with moderate/poor recovery at low % = death

using your logic:

"Post a video of you playing one set in which you do not get shined off the edge one time and I will shut up"

At high level play it is impossible for this to happen.

Ban shine (and rest, too).

Predictable response ok I'll play along.

IC's for starters can cheese any character in the cast.(26 characters)

Fox can cheese a few in a scenario when they magically go off the edge at 0 or low %.Most of these characters aren't play at least not seriously in tournaments and those that are played have found ways around it fairly easily after a decade of playing.(watch HDL's link vs some foxes for example). With that said I can post a video of every character playing even/beating a good fox.(with shines unbanned of course)

Puff's Uthrow rest only applies vs Fox/Falco(2 of 26 characters) those 2 characters can DI to a platform and tech out of it on some stages they can also DI it if at low enough %. Limited but options exist even for those 2. the rest of the cast doesn't have to worry about Uthrow rests so again it doesn't quite compare.


I don't play many puff's but I can post matches of Puff losing without getting off a single rest. As well as Fox losing without getting off a single shine-spike. I can post videos of them winning as well. Your point sounds like it would be a good counter argument but when you break it down it doesn't quite match.

<3 have a nice day.

 

[DJMirror]

Spam you're a marth you have fairs, tilts and dashdancing game


lol I say it's sucks *** for IC to get in. Wobbling only happen because you allow it to happen (which it's just getting grab) beside you can just platform camp

 

[unknown522]

wow, these arguments are so dumb

and make no sense.

There's too many people to call out, it's ridiculous.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is different by nature. Wobbling is more like stalling with Peach in or samus under battlefield. You can do something about getting tossed off the edge by shiek. Fox's shine is SDI techable and getting shined off at 0% is to LOL to ban if it happens anymore in the year 2011. If you are put in a situation when you are being wobbled there is no way out of it.

You are confusing cause and effect. It is true that you can't do anything while you are being Wobbled. You also can't do anything on the first frame of hit-stun, you can't do anything just before you re-spawn after dieing, you can't do anything while being pummeled in a grab, etc...

There are lots of situations where your inputs don't do anything, that's a really weak argument.

And shine-spiking at low percents definitely happens, you bad.

once again they are nearly unrelated. How is it a double standard? If wobbling is unbanned why not unban stall tactics like Peach’s wall-bombing, or Jigglypuff’s rising pound? They are more like wobbling in the sense that your opponent really cannot do anything.

Well, I'd personally have them legal because I don't believe they have the potential to cause degenerate gameplay (Jigglypuff's rising pound has to be frame perfect or she'll lose height, Peach's wall-bombing stall is pretty easy to stop).

However, assuming they are broken, that's exactly why they should be banned, because they are broken. Wobbling isn't broken, not even close.

IC's for starters can cheese any character in the cast.(26 characters)

Fox can cheese a few in a scenario when they magically go off the edge at 0 or low %.Most of these characters aren't play at least not seriously in tournaments and those that are played have found ways around it fairly easily after a decade of playing.(watch HDL's link vs some foxes for example). With that said I can post a video of every character playing even/beating a good fox.(with shines unbanned of course)

Puff's Uthrow rest only applies vs Fox/Falco(2 of 26 characters) those 2 characters can DI to a platform and tech out of it on some stages they can also DI it if at low enough %. Limited but options exist even for those 2. the rest of the cast doesn't have to worry about Uthrow rests so again it doesn't quite compare.


I don't play many puff's but I can post matches of Puff losing without getting off a single rest. As well as Fox losing without getting off a single shine-spike. I can post videos of them winning as well. Your point sounds like it would be a good counter argument but when you break it down it doesn't quite match.

<3 have a nice day.

All of that is irrelevant. All that matters when deciding the legality of a tactic/move/whatever is whether it is broken or not, why is that so hard for so many people to grasp?

 

[Archangel]

stuff

The massive quote u made was in response to red not you. He was attempting create an argument of Shine spiking being exactly like Wobbling. I have a question for you though grim. What about a stalling Samus under battlefield? How exactly would you stop a stall like that?

wow, these arguments are so dumb

and make no sense.

There's too many people to call out, it's ridiculous.

Don't you have chair to toss?

Spam you're a marth you have fairs, tilts and dashdancing game

lol I say it's sucks *** for IC to get in. Wobbling only happen because you allow it to happen (which it's just getting grab) beside you can just platform camp

you called me out and you are 100% correct. I've played all IC's if not in tournament in friendly and I don't lose to them because I play like safety bob. The only time I can lose is if someone really good like Chu plays me or someone not as quite as good plays me with wobbling legal and by some miracle they get a grab.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Firstly, it doesn't matter that your post was in response to Red, I was countering your "counter". None of that stuff about the number of characters affected matters when it comes to legality.

Stalling Samus under Battlefield?

As far as I know, don't her wall-jumps lose height eventually? Anyway, it's not banned currently, is it? I don't see Samus mains winning tournament using this tactic, so either:
a) No one uses it, so a rule to stop it would be pointless.
b) It's been proven beatable/too hard to do consistently.

 

[Beat!]

You can't compare bomb stalling with wobbling what the ****. The 300% limit means you CAN'T STALL with wobbling.

Ice Climbers are worse than ****ing Falcon. There is absolutely no reason to ban it, and any arbitrary drawn lines between wobbling and Fox's shine won't change that.

 

[unknown522]

Don't you have chair to toss?

don't you feel special?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Your sig is so cool Unknown, who drew it?

 

[unknown522]

Blowtoes. He's a samus player that used to live in Ontario, then he moved to Los Vegas for a year (Currently in BC I think?).

 

[Archangel]

Firstly, it doesn't matter that your post was in response to Red, I was countering your "counter". None of that stuff about the number of characters affected matters when it comes to legality.

Stalling Samus under Battlefield?

As far as I know, don't her wall-jumps lose height eventually? Anyway, it's not banned currently, is it? I don't see Samus mains winning tournament using this tactic, so either:
a) No one uses it, so a rule to stop it would be pointless.
b) It's been proven beatable/too hard to do consistently.

it was a stall tactic years ago but stalling is outlawed. I wouldn't be so annoyed with it if it was not for the fact that Genesis 2 is a Major event. IC's Destroyed Bracket hype at Apex and now they plan on doing it at the most anticipated event in history....It's pretty lame if nothing else.

You can't compare bomb stalling with wobbling what the ****. The 300% limit means you CAN'T STALL with wobbling.

Ice Climbers are worse than ****ing Falcon. There is absolutely no reason to ban it, and any arbitrary drawn lines between wobbling and Fox's shine won't change that.

I wasn't comparing bomb stalling to anything.......................................but yea.

ICs are below Falcon as a result of Wobbling being unbanned but if you allow your mind to travel back to 07 when IC's like Chu were winning major events alot of people felt like IC's should've been moved up into top much like people felt in 08 back when Puff was tied with....C.falcon O_O


If you wish to discuss this further inbox me. I'll get back to you later.

Have a swell day everyone ^^



and yeah I feel pretty good Unknown.

 

[Lit]

Good **** west coast.. Run that ish CA!

 

[unknown522]

*sigh*. Bringing up personal things that happened 2 years ago seems kinda useless, now doesn't it?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's lame, I 100% agree with you on that. Wobbling is really lame, and I really hate it, despite being an Ice Climbers main.

However, that is no reason to ban it.

 

[unknown522]

oh yeah, I hate it with a passion too. Still I think it should be banned, but I've been over this discussion in the MBR for too long, so I don't really feel like inputting.

 

[Charlesz]

How is wobbling unfair? because it turns one grab into death? You shouldn't be getting grabbed in the first place lmfao. It's a test of your fundamentals as a player versus another player's ability to get the grab.

Also idk about everyone sitting at their computers watching the stream but I, along with many others, had a blast watching the wobbling.

****ty argument rofl. You will get grabbed.

 

[Pogogo]

This reminds me of people suggesting Goblin Techies from DotA should be banned. Hes a bad character that requires also skill to be good. He also adds variety to the game. But on the other hand, do you really want to spend the entire game being unable to play properly for fear of landmines? The similarity is low risk, really high return strategy at the cost of a character nerf.

 

[Lit]

Wobbling still hasn't proven to be broken at highest levels of play. Chu Dat also placed lower at tournaments where Wobbling was allowed as well. Despite it being such a powerful weapon, the results are still remaining unchanged. Wobbling is no different from a marth player gimping fox/falco. Its apart of the game, and if people cant handle wobbling than they should just play brawl.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

A large issue with a Wobbling ban is that it is hard to define.

Wobbling isn't a "thing", it's just the Ice Climbers perfectly alternating hits so there is never a time when the opponent is out of hit-stun. The action itself is no different to pummeling, they can just do it infinitely.

Where do you draw the line from "pummeling" to "wobbling"? Are Ice Climbers players allowed to use blizzard while the opponent is in a grab? Can they jab and then ftilt in the same grab? How will the average TO be able to tell the difference anyway?

 

[Pogogo]

meh they do it in brawl. Stuff like 50 ledge grabs, banning certain chain grabs. You could do it. Wobbling is the alternation between dtilt/ftilt and pummel. That simple.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh, ok then.

So I'm assuming the variation of Wobbling which uses Blizzard is fair game? What about the one that uses jabs? Is the Up Tilt > Re-grab infinite in v1.0 fair game? What about Fthrow > Blizzard freeze > re-grab?

I'd also like to know if I accidently do a ftilt > pummel, will I be disqualified?

Do you see the problem here?

 

[Lit]

A large issue with a Wobbling ban is that it is hard to define.

Wobbling isn't a "thing", it's just the Ice Climbers perfectly alternating hits so there is never a time when the opponent is out of hit-stun. The action itself is no different to pummeling, they can just do it infinitely.

Where do you draw the line from "pummeling" to "wobbling"? Are Ice Climbers players allowed to use blizzard while the opponent is in a grab? Can they jab and then ftilt in the same grab? How will the average TO be able to tell the difference anyway?

Exactly, honestly if they ban wobbling they might as well ban the character as a whole. Thats like saying "you can play fox but you cant gimp with your shine off the stage" or "you can use jigs but you cant rest anyone". The whole argument with banning wobbling is stupid imo. IC's isnt the only character that is ultra wack if you get grabbed.

 

[Rajam]

Which were the R2 pool results for Brawl?

 

[stingers]

lol dont switch to brawl if you cry about wobbling, we're not ****ies and we don't ban ICs infinites so you'll just get ****ed up even harder in brawl then you would in melee XD

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

dude, stop with that attitute.

I mean, is not the streamers fault that you are up at that hour. That's like saying " Is Bruce Willis's fault that I am awake at this hour because I am trying to watch Die hard 2."

Also people stop crying bcuz you didnt get free stuff. They promised it? Yeah, but if they didnt you are not doing something for it. Instead of *****ING and being all butthurt because of it, you should try to "help" with an idea or just hope to get the livestream.

how am i supposed to help? give me conrete advice
and quic answered that bruce willis part perfectly

and your response doesnt make the guy tricking the audience (dbr) any less *******s

 

[Atlus8]

lol dont switch to brawl if you cry about wobbling, we're not ****ies and we don't ban ICs infinites so you'll just get ****ed up even harder in brawl then you would in melee XD

Holy s#!+ I didn't even think about it that way!

 

[Crooked Crow]

I missed the crew battle! Goddamnit. I was waiting 10 hours for the Melee stream before deciding to crash.

I'm catching singles bracket today though. Not missing this for the world.

 

[S l o X]

Did they even set up a stream last night for the crew battle?

 

[Atlus8]

There was a stream last night, but it was such bad quality! TeamSp00ky stream my d!ck!

 

[Player-1]

Which were the R2 pool results for Brawl?

this .

 

[ORLY]

Lol every time I check this thread it's always about results of pools and livestream

 

[Crooked Crow]

Why does Mibbit like randomly banning people? And how do I go about getting around this?

I deleted all caches and cookies, still won't let me connect. Help?

 

[V1CE]

thanks for the vids chibo... Is there anywhere i can watch the melee crews from yesterday?

 

[UltimaScout]

Exactly, honestly if they ban wobbling they might as well ban the character as a whole. Thats like saying "you can play fox but you cant gimp with your shine off the stage" or "you can use jigs but you cant rest anyone". The whole argument with banning wobbling is stupid imo. IC's isnt the only character that is ultra wack if you get grabbed.

Or it means ice climbers players have to rely on something other than inescapable broken moves. They have enough going for them (there are two of them FFS), and I've seen some people do crazy tricks with them. Work on your mind games, and your smashes. I enjoy watching the icies doing a lot of the chain grabs between them, do you know why? Cause that takes more effort than mashing "A" over and over again.

It's just like if you get shined by fox you aren't guaranteed to die, if you get rested by jiggs... you aren't guaranteed to die. If you get wobbled by icies... you ARE guaranteed to die.

 

[Beat!]

So after the discussion that took place here earlier today...

I hope Wobbles wins by wobbling his way through the entire bracket. GFs better be Wobbles vs Fly, where Wobbles wins because Fly doesn't wobble. Haters gonna hate.

 

[UltimaScout]

So after the discussion that took place here earlier today...

I hope Wobbles wins by wobbling his way through the entire bracket. GFs better be Wobbles vs Fly, where Wobbles wins because Fly doesn't wobble. Haters gonna hate.

Even though it's frustrating playing vs icies like what fly was doing vs m2k in pools. You can beat it by being overly aggressive. It's fun watching them desyncing and landing combos together.

+ 2 for fly
**** or gtfo for wobbles

 

[Beat!]

I just want all the anti-wobbling people to complain as much as possible. Then I can just sit there and smile.