DDD & MK... are brothrs (good secondary)

[Zenjamin]

Hello, Im a DDD main, and Olimar is a horrible counter for DDD... i would rather do ganon/sheik then DDD/olimar.

So i picked up MK, who seems to do excellent against olimar.
so I tested it out some more, and MK seems to do great against the characters that counter DDD (quick, projectile user, small)


then I asked around, and apparently, the type of people who counter MK, are exactly the same type of people that DDD excels against (strong kill moves)




so, Meta-Knight and DDD seem to cover eachothers weaknesses pretty well.
their play styles are very similar for having such different counters.
they are bothe badass allies from dreamland.
they both have inherent badassery (MK, DDD)




So, wha do you guys think?

use this thread to discuss ways in which we can help eachothers counters... stuff like that.

 

[Umpy]

what kind of Olimar are you playing?

Olimar beats MK very easily even if you are a better player than the guy.

but on the other hand i dont see DDD being a good partner, i don't really know why, but i just don't

DDD is slow and powerful, and the only move he has that has a lot of range, is that ( dont knowm what it is) is that one where he sticks out his hammer on the ground and twirls it to his side.

a good partner for MK is a projectile spammer, like maybe Pit or TL? maybe

haven't really gotten a go-around with partners yet.

 

[Zenjamin]

No, belive me. as nasty as olimar is, MK has it easy compared to DDD. and im not quite sure why MK would have any trouble over anyone else. he has a quick approach, can avoid the pikmin spam, and even when he does get hit, he has many moves to get them off.
he is also floaty enough to get out of many of olimar's combos. and quick enough in the air to combo olimar off the ledge and gump/edge-hog eaisly...


you really didnt give any specifics as to why Olimar, or any of DDD's counters, would do well against MK... I really must assume that the olimar your playing is just better then you.

also, your knowledge of DDD is greatly lacking. most all of his moves gave great range. he can eaisly get the heavy hitters off the edge. he doesnt get knocked into oblivion like MK against the heavy hitters, he can CG all of MKs specific counters (to my knowledge)



... i dont know, your opinion doesn't really seem verry thought out or experienced.

 

[Nickieroonie]

..........

 

[KraidGuy]

Well, DDD is slow and strong, and Meta Knight is fast and good at racking up damage. Together, they can beat the hell out of people. All Meta Knight has to do is trap someone in his neutral A move with DDD next to him, DDD charges up, and the opponent goes flying.

 

[Zenjamin]

yes, they do make excellent team-mates, but I was more talking about picking up DDD as a secondary to cover Meta-Knights weakness.

I cant think of anyone who counters DDD that MK doesnt to well against.
and although i dont know MK's difficult matchups as well, I cant think of anyone who countes MK that DDD doesnt do well against.

(tier whores like TL who nobody counters doesnt count)

 

[Taso]

I, personally, don't think MK NEEDS a teammate. I've never encountered a heavy hitter that I couldn't speed-pressure into oblivion.

If you're an MK who can get hit by the heavy hits, you deserve to die o_O

And in all honesty, if we were talking 2v2, I'd want Pit as my backup to shoot them while I wail on them, then help me kill them.

I think heavy hitters are horrible except against other heavy hitters.
Except Zelda, as I would classify her as a FAST heavy hitter.

 

[Zenjamin]

wow... verry foolish you seem to be.

And in all honesty, if we were talking 2v2, I'd want Pit as my backup to shoot them while I wail on them, then help me kill them.

L2 turn team attack on... also, a death hit> a little extra damage.

I think heavy hitters are horrible except against other heavy hitters.
Except Zelda, as I would classify her as a FAST heavy hitter.

well, although Zelda is faster then DDD, almost of DDDs attacks are fasster then zelda.

excellent super quick tilts that can kill >100% and can get them off the stage for a WOP >50%



here. tell me, what is MK's worst match-up (other then the top tiers)

 

[Taso]

Foolish? That's based merely on conjecture, sir.

You know not my playing style. A good doubles partner is entirely about syncing play styles to maximize efficiency.

I find Zelda's attacks to be both strong and fairly fast, not to mention she has one of the best projectiles in the game, which is also very easy to control.

As for worst match up for MK? There isn't one that I've found.

I've not found a single character that I cannot consistently beat because each has a large, exploitable weakness.

Olimar is hell against MK, but if you hit him off and edgeguard him once, you can edge hog him as his tether becomes worthless.

Kirby(among any other floater) is also a pain for MK, but Jiggly/Kirby both have the unfortunate problem of being very light, and Jiggly is dependent upon aerial attacks, which MK outclasses it on. Kirby's moves don't have the speed to deal with MK except for the ones that do no damage, and beyond that, Kirby can't hold a combo.

DDD can float and is heavy, so he's logically one of the worst to deal with, except for the fact that when MK fights a heavy person, mach tornado rips them to shreds for however long you need. A good MK mainer can give up to 80% with the tornado before needing to do anything else to a heavy fighter.


And finally, there are projectilists. MK has no reflect, nor does he himself have a projectile. However, both his Fspecial and his neutral special have amazing priority and can rip through most projectiles, and the ones it can't he can go over.

I'd say Wolf and Falco in the end will be the most trouble for MK, but in the end, a good MK can start a combo against a projectilist and finish it with their death, leaving them no room to spam projectiles. He's a pressure master, and once he gets near someone, he doesn't leave them alone.

Meta Knight is a hard character to master, but if you can, he's easily one of the most rewarding characters.

You, sir, I would say are the foolish one.

 

[Zenjamin]

why? I said you were foolish to think Pit was great to shoot arrows at you and someone else while you were in a combo.
I said you were foolish as team attack would be on, and even if not, arrows would be one of the worst things to do whit you time if you had all other options open.
and to forget that you would have another person to deal with.

I also said that because of your general assessment of heavy charcters seemed to be misinformed and of a melee mindset. espically disregarding the fact that evey comperive chrcter ranking list has placed DDD in the equivilant of high tier or above.
and to my knowledge. DDD has always been placed above MK.

AND you seem to think that you can get someone to killing damage by just spamming the tornado?
your general tone tells me that you are a king among noobs.


... but this has gotten way off topic. I wanted this to be fairly productive... but it takes two to tango, so ill be stepping out untill someone has something productive to say.

 

[Taso]

Evidence as led me to believe otherwise about DDD being above MK for many reasons.

Specifically the fact that I've won money in a brawl tournament against, among other characters thought to be better than MK, DDD.
Have you won money playing Brawl?

And beyond that, MK can combo someone towards Pit, leaving him protected by the arrow, or Pit can shoot the other person while MK is fighting the first fighter.

My "misguided" view as you eloquently put it, is based purely on what I've seen. In Melee, such was also usually the case. Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Ganondorf. These characters weren't..... that.... good.

So far, that seems to me to remain the case. Prove me wrong?

I, personally, don't spam the tornado beyond the first twenty percent usually, and that's only against medium-sized characters or heavier.
However, I've seen that tornado-spamming against a heavy character is VERY easy. Not only possible, and usually difficult to prevent, but just downright easy.

I think you're just looking at the game from a perspective that's purely "How can I take the long route to success?" "What advanced techniques can I use to up my game slightly?"

It's true, AT's can seriously improve someone's game, but that person can't be looking for the novel way to win like using a heavy character with semi-fast moves to beat a fast character.

This is going purely by what I've seen and experienced. Prove me wrong sir, prove me wrong.

 

[Zenjamin]

wow... when i called you a king among noobs, i was being too generous. I really should have looked at your join date before i gave your arrogant tone any heed.

ill reply to you just once more, then your going on the ignore list. perhaps you will understant the community better, open your mond to charcter flaws under the assult of a talented player, but i dont want to risk the headache.

Evidence as led me to believe otherwise about DDD being above MK for many reasons.

I reference the opinion of all the top pros, all the top crews, how people like M2K (who you are likely unfamiliar with), belive that DDD is one of the best charcters in the game and consistantly ranked higher then MK...

im not saying that they are absolutly correct, but instead of even aknowledging the belief of verry well established competive players, you disregared it in favor of your own personal experence, your own "evidence"

.... this should be good, especially if it overrides all the others who have come before you.

Specifically the fact that I've won money in a brawl tournament against, among other characters thought to be better than MK, DDD.

EL GASP!
you won a tournament?
well then, i suppose MK is first on the tier list then? who got second? because surely that charcter will be second on the tier list then.... never mind all the tournaments you havent gone to.

also, you seem to discount all skill at said tournament... fine by me, as clearly there was no significant skill there.

also, I find it extremely strange that in all of your 40+ posts, after winning a local tournament, you didnt even go to the regional boards, to talk about said tournament that you dominated.

ya... smells like bull**** to me. espically as, I live in durango, a verry small town, and even people here are good enough to **** people with the mindset of thinking they can get away with spamming one move (and a melee, lag move at that)

Have you won money playing Brawl?

yes... yes I have. and combined with my melee winnings I have won over 500$.
not that that has a GAT FRACKEN **** THING TO DO WITH BRAWL COUNTER MATCH-UPS!

And beyond that, MK can combo someone towards Pit, leaving him protected by the arrow, or Pit can shoot the other person while MK is fighting the first fighter.

JESUS... oh fracking jesus.
god help us all from the might arrow spam in teams

ok, here, let me give you some advice that you might not have considered before.
L2 SpotDodge?

and besides, if Pit has the option to choose an attack, and he chooses to spam arrows... he would be better to spend his time flying below the stage so that when the other guy dies, he can take Pits stocks.

My "misguided" view as you eloquently put it, is based purely on what I've seen. In Melee, such was also usually the case. Donkey Kong, Bowser, and Ganondorf. These characters weren't..... that.... good.

you have a general philosophy because a heavy character was bad in melee? all heavy characters are bad in brawl?

... no words can describe the stupidity of your logic... i really tried, but i can not make an apt analogy.

So far, that seems to me to remain the case. Prove me wrong?

O i wish i could.
if I didnt have such [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WfMjm6JFes]horrible lag i would challenge you and record it.
I would not hesitate to do a 50$ MM with either my DDD vs your MK, or my melee ganon vs whoever you are in melee.

... in fact, by your experence/knowledge you have displayed here, im pretty sure I could take you in a meta-knight ditto as well.

I, personally, don't spam the tornado beyond the first twenty percent usually, and that's only against medium-sized characters or heavier.
However, I've seen that tornado-spamming against a heavy character is VERY easy. Not only possible, and usually difficult to prevent, but just downright easy.

ya, unless they were to try to roll, run, use certain projectiles, DI out of it before the last hit, or even just sheild the **** thing and get a free grab out of it when you get your landing lag.

I think you're just looking at the game from a perspective that's purely "How can I take the long route to success?" "What advanced techniques can I use to up my game slightly?"

I specifically quoted this not for your benifit, because you wouldnt understand how much noob you are letting show with this statement.

It's true, AT's can seriously improve someone's game, but that person can't be looking for the novel way to win like using a heavy character with semi-fast moves to beat a fast character.

where the frack did "AT's even come into the conversation?
it didnt.

This is going purely by what I've seen and experienced. Prove me wrong sir, prove me wrong.

*picks up phone and redials the Nintendo tech services. *

...ok, calming down now, ill just /ignore you instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt.




OK, now that i have let off my steam and attempted to shine light on inexperience, is there anyone who would like to get back on topic?
this is NOT a DDD vs MK thread.

I do not consider Taso a representative of the MK community, and im still hopen that some of us might find DDD to be a beneficial second.

 

[Taso]

I PMed you so as to not clutter your thread longer. I apologize for having launched a direct attack against you instead of taking it to a PM in the first place.

 

[Umpy]

Zenjamin, your logic is flawless.

After reading your posts, i do understand that DDD is a very good partner( i am going to go read the, if their is a guide for him, and maybe pick him up =D), i can also see (very surprisingly) B00zer being a very good partner, he is alot more quick than he was in melee , and hits like a frieght train. With MK quickness and B00zer's OMFG GTFO moves that could be potential ownage.

Also to Taso, ROB is a very heavy character but he is actully quiet quick in nature, his recovery is prolly top tier, his moves are powerful, yet he his still bad becuase e is heavy?

explain please.