Dealing with crouch canceling

[JosekiTheGreat]

Heyo everyone, first time posting on the Fox forums for PM. I'm a pretty solid technical fox, nothing outrageous but I have all my fundamentals (sffling, shining after dair/bair/etc, double lasering, wavelands, blah blah) down quite solid. I like to play a solid mix of a campy punish game with good shield pressure when I get in.

Anywho, there is a player in my town who plays G&W, Bowser, Roy, and Peach. He's not super good, and I generally win against him. However, these games are often quite close despite this! He likes to just hold down and downsmash/downtilt/etc a lot. Even if I go in for a punish, he just crouch cancels it and down tilts or something of that sort. Most players don't play like this, and I'm not exactly sure what the best overall strategy is for someone who likes to hold down on the control stick. Against Bowser especially, his downtilt can send me flying from like 40-60% and put me in a real tough spot.

I'd like a solution that isn't "Camp with lasers and run away a lot until they have high % so you can actually do something" but I'm open to playing like that if I have to.

Thanks Y'all!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Dude, your ****ing fox. Shine after your nair or drill and you don't have to deal with CC; shoot some lasers as well. After you shine, follow up or make him whiff. I thought you were technical??? Didn't you just say you were?

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

Woah! That was quite the impassioned response

Maybe I'm just missing "the link" so to speak on A button to shine. Maybe it's just slops then on my part if it's as easy as you say.

 

[DMG]

Fox's best answer in general to CC is to laser instead of approach. If you want an approach with low/no real chance to get CC'd, you do Dair instead of Nair. Uair can work as well but it's not nearly in the same boat.

 

[xSTx]

Option 1 (smart) : Run away and throw lasers to force them up.

Option 2 (not so smart) : SHFFL Nair/dair/Bair/Uair, shine, repeat.

 

[-Se7en-]

Come in with a Nair or Dair, shine grab.

 

[Starkiller2]

CC is a common hurdle for Foxes to get over when trying to improve. There is this Peach in my area that 3-stocked me constantly because of CC->dsmash (which I CC because I was fastfalling >.<), then he would hit me once, I'd be offstage, then he edgeguards easily. Once I figured out how to deal with CC, I started 3 stocking him! Basically, lasering is a good way to force them out of CC, dair->shine is probably the best (but I hate when they still CC the shine and mash dsmash or something and if you aren't frame perfect on your waveshine followup you get hit -_-), but my favourite way to beat CC is to grab! Most of the time they just react to getting hit so running in and grabbing beats this.

 

[-Se7en-]

You guys should have seen DJ Nintendo vs Hungrybox back in the day.

They did a match on dreamland and DJ taunted, Hungrybox killed him with rest. Hungrybox then taunted and DJ jabbed him, hungrybox held down before he was it and after jab hit DJ with another rest.

 

[Soupeschleg]

solid technical fox

I'm just missing "the link" so to speak on A button to shine

bruh...

 

[Boomhound]

To deal with CC'ing stop Nairing and Dair to shine instead, also you could tomahawk or grab in general. It sounds like your opponent's just waiting for you to approach so lasers WOULD work, but you can also DD and fake approaches, baiting like this beats reactive/defensive players as this conditioning will make them guess your approaches instead of holding down and spamming Dtilt or Dsmash.

 

[LonVoen]

Why does dair work better than nair?

 

[Boomhound]

Why does dair work better than nair?

The window of opportunity for your opponent to use a move is tighter, I'm basing this off of shield pressure logic tho- on the other-hand if they're CC'ing they won't SDI out of your D-air

 

[MTGEL33T]

I'm still kinda new but to deal with crouch cancelling in my area a simple SHFFL dair or SHFFL nair into shine will prevent them from being able to crouch cancel, and you can also pick up a nice chase if your quick enough ^^

 

[Boomhound]

I'm still kinda new but to deal with crouch cancelling in my area a simple SHFFL dair or SHFFL nair into shine will prevent them from being able to crouch cancel, and you can also pick up a nice chase if your quick enough ^^

The reason SHFFL Nair isn't great vs. crouch cancelling is that a Falco or Fox can shine before your Nair connects.

 

[B00nes]

Best way to deal with that is to bait it out of them. Try shffl bair/nair right outside of their dtilt range and bait it out, and as they do as such fox is fast enough to dash in and up smash (or shine if it's game and watch because his dtilt is 3fast). Fox has one of the best bait and punish games in pm right now so abuse that