Delfino and Ness

[Earthboundy]

I personally don't think Delfino, Halberd or Castle Siege should be legal at all so this may be biased. I think Ness and Delfino is 100% broken. Ness' fair combos kill at any percent near the ledge. Up air kills at 80% and I've killed from under the umbrella with foward throw into the walkoff. What are your thoughts on this stage and Ness?

 

[Asa]

It's a pretty good stage for ness, not "100% broken "

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Ness's F Throw has set knockback on it so it's good to get kills by walkoffd

 

[Earthbound360]

It's good, but not broken. The worst part is that the ceiling plays a huge role in this stage, being so low and even lower on transformations. Ness doesn't KO well off the top, and a lot of other top tier characters do (ZSS, Luigi, Pikachu, Rosalina, etc.).

Pick it for matchups where KOing off the top isn't a big deal, and you feel like playing gimmicky cheese lol.

 

[SlamShady]

Stage knowledge is crucial for success in this case. If you think your opponent wouldn't have experience with the stage, you can get a lot of mileage off your throws. Forward throw and back throw are wonderful here, especially forward throw near the walkoffs due to the set knockback, which your opponent may not anticipate and can net early KOs. Also, be sure to mix up your ways of getting back on stage. Often times, you can use fair, nair, uair from underneath the stage to swooce in and surprise your opponent. Additional strategies can really payoff, such as using PK Thunder if you land early during the transitions, which is pretty safe. You do want to avoid certain characters like Earthbound360 noted.

 

[S-Ness]

These stages are generally good for Ness. Delfino supports your recovery. Halberd supports recovery and uair kills, and Castle Siege supports fair and fthrow/bthrow kills. However none of these stages support double PKT2s.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

These stages are generally good for Ness. Delfino supports your recovery. Halberd supports recovery and uair kills, and Castle Siege supports fair and fthrow/bthrow kills. However none of these stages support double PKT2s.

You can thunderbounce the lip on Halberd and the first transformation on CS (possibly the third, but I don't know it it'll actually help).

Doing it on Halberds lip is REALLY useful because it makes us one of the only characters who can get out of it semi-reliably with no double jump and it looks cool af.

 

[NeuroticSpirit]

It's good, but not broken. The worst part is that the ceiling plays a huge role in this stage, being so low and even lower on transformations. Ness doesn't KO well off the top, and a lot of other top tier characters do (ZSS, Luigi, Pikachu, Rosalina, etc.).

Pick it for matchups where KOing off the top isn't a big deal, and you feel like playing gimmicky cheese lol.

Wouldn't low ceilings be a good thing as they make uairs a stronger option?

 

[Uffe]

You don't have to go to those stages. When I went to my second tourney, I only selected Halberd for the simple fact I hated having Sheik throw her needles at me, so I'd duck in the curved section of the stage as I approached and would use the platform above me for any attempts to try to run or jump by me, as well as an anti-aerial against any possible aerial approaches. Certain stages help characters, but if you want to learn the ins and outs of the stages that make it more difficult for you, then go ahead.

 

[yoshi8984]

Doing it on Halberds lip is REALLY useful because it makes us one of the only characters who can get out of it semi-reliably with no double jump and it looks cool af.

I thought you generally don't have enough momentum from the rebound so that your 2nd PKT doesn't hit the underside of the stage, also I'd like clarification if it works on the left walls or do we just ricochet off and die?

==

Anyway, I say Delfino IS Ness' best stage, BUT I would prefer to avoid it OR you have to watch out for a gimmick against the following characters:

- Jiggs can get free Rests in the water with no penalty as she instantly wakes up when she touches the water. Same can apply for Kirby's Stone AND he might be able to get U-Throw KOs there earlier with the platforms as the camera zooms in and the ceiling gets insanely low. I might be able to say the same thing against Charizard and his Rock Smash and U-Throw as well lol.

- I love the Fox MU and Delfino, but it's not somewhere I'd CP against Fox since we have the upper hand against him with edgeguarding, and I feel Delfino takes away that aspect. Also, one of the things we love about Delfino is that Ness' recovery isn't much of an issue there, BUT Fox really can't threaten Ness' recovery without the risk of SDing in the first place.

- IIRC DK and Ike have some good things for them over there, esp. with their spikes in the water and it helps with their recovery issues too.

- I would also avoid taking Yoshi there, I mean Yoshi does well all around on any stage but I'm NOT comfortable there against Yoshi tbh.

==

Now, regarding the benefits for Ness:

+ In the sections where there is a lowest platform or we're protected by a wall of some sort (say the section with the parasols, the bridge where there's a pool at the left, and the Shine Gate), I like to go to the lowest level, hide by a wall and try to force approaches with PKT and Nair them if they come to my zone lol. It's also useful against those with projectiles that you can absorb, since if they come toward you with a projectile, you can just jump out and Magnet.

+ Walk-offs help us get earlier KOs with B-Throw/F-Throw/D-Smash/Nair/Bair, also you might be able to Fair chain someone to their death. XD

+ We are usually worry-free about recovery in most sections.

+ The section with the grassy stone pillars lets us just Nair opponents that get caught in between them for days, also lets us play some nice ledge PKT tricks (let go, double jump PKT, grab ledge, then move to the pillar next to you where the opponent isn't and send PKT their way, 2nd time you regrab ledge you're on a new platform so you're usually safe lol).

There might be more that I can't think of atm but Delfino is usually my go to CP! :D

 

[Earthbound360]

Wouldn't low ceilings be a good thing as they make uairs a stronger option?

Uairs are good, but you've gotta consider how much more other characters can KO off the top. Ness can only KO off the top with uair alone. His usmash doesnt KO, and most other characters do. His uthrow doesnt KO, and he doesn't have a special that KOs off the top. Luigi for example, has 4 KO moves off the top: usmash, UpB, DownB, and nair. So yeah, we can't really compare there.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

I thought you generally don't have enough momentum from the rebound so that your 2nd PKT doesn't hit the underside of the stage, also I'd like clarification if it works on the left walls or do we just ricochet off and die?

I'll try it on the left when I get on next, but I've done it on the right in a tourney before. You have to wait until you ALMOST go into freefall after the first PKT2 and use PKT again.

I'll test later :3

EDIT: Tested it! It is possible on the left and right. On the right, you're most likely going to bounce immediately and use it a second time to get to the ledge. On the left you have to PKT2 almost immediately into the lip, then wait a second and use it again directly upwards. If you do it with enough force you'll bounce pretty far out.

It's not 100% but just know if you get caught down there it IS possible to get out.