Did America lose a generation?

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

@ N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣 a few points i wanna make in response to yours

first, china is a terrible example of balance. overpopulation and incredibly high levels of pollution alone discredit that notion...like yea they'll be smart but enjoy that lower life expetancy

porn isn't destructive but like anything that gives pleasure there's always a chance for addiction

also you cant complain bout no damn video game violence in this board...that'd be ironic


and hip-hop is one of the most socially aware genres of music ever. your displeasure of the current hip hop mainstream scene is understandable, but if you're open minded, i can recommend you incredible amounts of hip hop songs that prove you wrong

see the negative stuff you hear is the result of record execs wanting to push that image to the children and young adults...to simultaneously make money off of it, and help push legislature that benefits THEM by demonizing a certain population and painting a certain political party as those supported by said negative people


to the point where our women are seen as "welfare queens" and stuff like that

Yes, but who is the wealthy country? And who makes all these fancy, gadgets? And do the people show disrespect one, bit? No. Whenever they finish something they bow 'to show respect' they never raise their voice towards garbage excuses. And above all, THEY'RE WEALTHY.

But, you can continue to debate that it was 'terrible' yet they're more successful in every way and they actually are truly humble people.

Enough of that this wont go anywhere but the Hip hop objective sure will.

So, I'm aware of love songs and emotional songs, I've grew up in that genre and it destroyed a lot of my family members, half of them are in Mafia's and gangs, yes, you read that correctly MAFIA AND GANGS.

Many are sculpted through that genre, trust me, before that influence wasn't very popular and rock was the influence (which never had a strong influence like this rubbish) they were okay people. Still though the influence had a significant influence to their characteristic view. Mr.Tupac was the person to suck them in this genre and what even pulled them closer to this horse **** was the MONEY. That's when they started dressing different and took different paths, some chose the gangs side where many are locked up and shot of course and the others chose the Mafia side where almost all of my family members are dead.

So, rapping about your true love or sad times (slim shady) is only but a diversion towards what really is lying there.

Sure man, go ahead and show me all songs that involve trying to get through life, or your 'true love' heck, listen to one of their songs about that and listen to another one and, what do you know? They're message is different from 'true love' to FU this and that.

I hate to type this but you are brainwashed through what REALLY GOES ON. The way you talk is different (slang) the way you dress (different and trashy), yes, some just listen to the music but at the same time they will either way be listening to profanity and in the near future it will catch up to them.

I honestly pity with a real grieving smile when I see people enjoy this garbage. I do not care if people disagree with me, I have experience and I know more than them that just 'listen' and want to write to me that I'm mistaken smh.

 

[tm730]

@ N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣 wait so if they dont rap about violence, it's just a distraction?

people cant be multifaceted?


i hate to break it to you but crime and violence and profanity has always existed


all hip hop did in the beginning was bring it to the light


you watch too much Fox News

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

@ N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣 wait so if they dont rap about violence, it's just a distraction?

people cant be multifaceted?



i hate to break it to you but crime and violence and profanity has always existed


all hip hop did in the beginning was bring it to the light


you watch too much Fox News

Ignorance is bliss to you it seems. I watch all news to understand what in the world happens in this discombobulated society.

And for the record if I watched Fox news, don't you think they wouldn't say the truth about this type of stuff? They tell you what you want to hear, and do not include the facts'.

So, your thinking towards Fox News actually saying the truth (and they will ONLY say the stuff people want to hear, so they would say 'Hip hop is not bad' but you are writing they would when they wouldn't, they always Sugar coat everything man). Your thinking there was irrelevant sorry.

Let me just type to you something, why do you enjoy, Hip hop?

 

[tm730]

Ignorance is bliss to you it seems. I watch all news to understand what in the world happens in this discombobulated society.

And for the record if I watched Fox news, don't you think they wouldn't say the truth about this type of stuff? They tell you what you want to hear, and do not include the facts'.

So, your thinking towards Fox News actually saying the truth (and they will ONLY say the stuff people want to hear, so they would say 'Hip hop is not bad' but you are writing they would when they wouldn't, they always Sugar coat everything man). Your thinking there was irrelevant sorry.

Let me just type to you something, why do you enjoy, Hip hop?

no because Fox News offers the same trite and BS arguments about hip hop that you made. acting like violence didnt exist before hip hop. no different than blaming violent video games or movies, when studies constantly prove otherwise

in fact violent crime has decreased in the US at least as hip hop and violent media popularity went up

as for i listen to hip hop it's for a few reasons:

1. the seemingly infinite musical directions the music can take. sampled elements and instruments >>> just instruments

2. it was the first time as a young child/teenager that i was made aware of struggles with minority groups due to certain songs mentioning stuff
lack of jobs, police abuse, etc.
low-key helped me out in choosing sociology as a major

3. it is the gateway for a lot of older genres because of the heavy use of sampling


i can think of others but those are the main ones

 

[Kay kay]

Several theories go along with this discussion, though I won't name all of them. In the future, years from now. Will kids look up to this generation and try to do better?

Just think, are we leading this generation into something we would want to follow?

As for theories. I've heard that every year, Americans lose more and more Jobs. (not in terms of factories gaining robots and stuff like that. I mean in terms of the way we are getting educated). Why is this? Yes, a lot of kids have changed since back then. But that shouldn't change the way we are getting educated, should it?

What effected our education? How many American children will get great careers and lead this country?

 

[Chinaux]

Several theories go along with this discussion, though I won't name all of them. In the future, years from now. Will kids look up to this generation and try to do better?

Just think, are we leading this generation into something we would want to follow?

You can answer your own question by asking yourself if your generation looked up to the previous generation.

Of course they do. They're going to still be dumb teenagers. It's not going to change.

As for theories. I've heard that every year, Americans lose more and more Jobs. (not in terms of factories gaining robots and stuff like that. I mean in terms of the way we are getting educated). Why is this? Yes, a lot of kids have changed since back then. But that shouldn't change the way we are getting educated, should it?

What effected our education? How many American children will get great careers and lead this country?

It's harder to get jobs nowadays because there's more competition. There's 7+ billion people in this world, and still counting. Job demand is extremely high.

 

[Kay kay]

You can answer your own question by asking yourself if your generation looked up to the previous generation.

Of course they do. They're going to still be dumb teenagers. It's not going to change.

It's harder to get jobs nowadays because there's more competition. There's 7+ billion people in this world, and still counting. Job demand is extremely high.

Do you agree with our education system? I don't to be honest. Even with the competition. I feel like everyone would have an opportunity with a better system.

 

[Chinaux]

Do you agree with our education system? I don't to be honest. Even with the competition. I feel like everyone would have an opportunity with a better system.

What would I disagree with?

 

[Kay kay]

What would I disagree with?

Well, we aren't top in education anymore. So I suppose something happened for that to be an effect?

 

[tm730]

Well, we aren't top in education anymore. So I suppose something happened for that to be an effect?

aptitude tests with very little practical questions, for once

getting a high enough score to get a top tier education requires you to learn things that you will most likely not encounter in any class ever

common core having very deceptive questions even with simple arithmetic which lowers scores


impoverished neighborhoods with lackluster educational funding as well

 

[tm730]

edit: double post

 

[Kay kay]

edit: double post

why the double post?

 

[tm730]

why the double post?

i thought i was editing my already existing post when i actually quoted it in a new post by mistake

 

[Kay kay]

i thought i was editing my already existing post when i actually quoted it in a new post by mistake

oh ok

 

[Chinaux]

Well, we aren't top in education anymore. So I suppose something happened for that to be an effect?

Where are you hearing this? Even if people are doing stupid things, that doesn't mean our education system is bad, it just means our society of teenagers does stupid stuff. Which is true for all generations. Nothing about this has changed, like I said before.

Our education system is at par if not better than most countries.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Well, we aren't top in education anymore. So I suppose something happened for that to be an effect?

When were we ever top in education

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

no because Fox News offers the same trite and BS arguments about hip hop that you made. acting like violence didnt exist before hip hop. no different than blaming violent video games or movies, when studies constantly prove otherwise

in fact violent crime has decreased in the US at least as hip hop and violent media popularity went up

as for i listen to hip hop it's for a few reasons:

1. the seemingly infinite musical directions the music can take. sampled elements and instruments >>> just instruments

2. it was the first time as a young child/teenager that i was made aware of struggles with minority groups due to certain songs mentioning stuff
lack of jobs, police abuse, etc.
low-key helped me out in choosing sociology as a major

3. it is the gateway for a lot of older genres because of the heavy use of sampling


i can think of others but those are the main ones

No, I'm aware of violence being relevant in this, and it seems you don't want to understand what hip hop really was made for.

Okay, if Hip hop was truly the source of learning all this, then wow I think I'm done here. I wonder what ever happened towards listening and viewing what even goes on in the world rather than listening to a genre that doesn't even represent what they stand by. Also, if the African Americans (my half race) wanted true change then they would rap about change and only change (like Martian Luther King Jr). But they hide what truly goes on int his genre (just like Fast-food) you see it looks fine, but once you bite into it a whole another story begins. Thanks.

 

[Sucumbio]

Just wanted to share a personal observation. I was in 3rd grade in 1985. We were responsible for learning our times tables up through 9x9. Fractions stated in 4th grade.

Whag did You people learn in 3rd grade, some 20 years later? When did you do fractions? I'm in Mississippi, the poorest and dumbest state in the Union, and yet our 3rd graders already know basic fractions. Times tables are a thing of the past, but damn if a 2nd grader doesn't already know 2x2 is 4.

Basically we've advanced, not slipped, in terms of education. It's just that we're over saturating the market. College is also still difficult to stay in because high school still doesn't prepare kids well.

 

[tm730]

No, I'm aware of violence being relevant in this, and it seems you don't want to understand what hip hop really was made for.

Okay, if Hip hop was truly the source of learning all this, then wow I think I'm done here. I wonder what ever happened towards listening and viewing what even goes on in the world rather than listening to a genre that doesn't even represent what they stand by. Also, if the African Americans (my half race) wanted true change then they would rap about change and only change (like Martian Luther King Jr). But they hide what truly goes on int his genre (just like Fast-food) you see it looks fine, but once you bite into it a whole another story begins. Thanks.

you are aware that things like that you don't learn in school plus the media puts an unfortunate spin on things like that

which is what i meant, i meant that that was the first source of learning about social problems for me...not that i lived privileged, but there wasn't much overt indication of racism and corrupt politics, etc. where im from

what you fail to understand is that hip hop gives you all of a person, the good, the bad, the ugly

the id, ego or superego...which is why it's silly to expect 100% "positive" lyrics about change...when there is no such thing as a completely positive person, there are cracks and chinks in everyone's armor. The best rappers are BALANCED, not in one side of the spectrum.


and i know what hip hop was created for. it was a culture of expression that offered an competitive arena where we urban youth who were frequently disadvantaged could battle it out without the use of violence + an avenue to transmit social problems out there to people without any media censorship or alteration

 

[no1butmenotu]

We live in an era where - as redundant as it is to state - we have become almost entirely dependent on what "Serial Experiments Lain" calls, "The Wired".We take all of this for granted because of how much of our very lives it has become a part of. Even more, our kids (mine included) were thrust into a world where the internet and social media has dominated the lives of much of mankind, so unless parents put effort into it (which not many do on the whole), they're not going to know what it's like to live without this kind of technology.

I was born in 86, so I was born into a world where TV, radio, and the Nintendo was a common thing. Video games were just getting a huge boom thanks to Nintendo, and it's impossible for me, just like others after my generation, to imagine a world without it. It is impossible for people born today to imagine life without the internet, and will question how people, like me, managed to live without it, just as I would question how people before my generation managed to function without video games and so on.

Technology is still evolving. Facebook, Twitter, and even YouTube will eventually run their course and give way to something new and more relevant. The internet might be replaced by another form of social interaction that breaks barriers and distances, and even language. In the end, the result is still the same; generations will evolve with the steady advancement of technology, or vanish trying to do so, leaving only those born into it to thrive... if any of what I just said made even a fragment's worth of sense.

Ok, the reason why I quoted you is because I like the fact that you mentioned Serial Experiments Lain, and I strongly agree with what you said.

The following is just my general opinion about what the OP said.

I'm currently 30 years old. So far I haven't sat down and watched television for the past...12 years. I think I saved a lot of brain cells by doing that. I usually get my information from word of mouth. I'm currently in college; College is far easier than high school (The factor of difficulty could also depend on the major. I was an IT major and that was harder than the major that I currently am in: Human Services. Even though this may be the case, I did pretty well in IT before the switch. I also went to the second best high school in my state).

As stated earlier, I pretty much agree with what Claire said. In order to not have such a strong dependency on technology and these societal changes I do the following: Put forth all of my effort into whatever work I do, write, work out (when applicable), and keep my mind as active as possible. This probably sounds cliche, but I'm not really sure what else to say. I honestly don't think that the technological advancement is harmful, however, what can be harmful is how people use it. In a sense this also could apply to guns in general.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

and i know what hip hop was created for it was to battle it out without the use of violence + an avenue to transmit social problems

You just wrote to me that violence isn't used in Hip hop (false) and that I don't understand Hip hop (false).

Lastly, I know it was created to express, but as always people took garbage too far. So, that is why I'm against a worthless trash like that genre, there is nothing else to whine about, WE ARE NOT SLAVES ANYMORE.

So, if my race wants to show peace then kindly burn this genre and promote something else that ACTUALLY HAS A TRUE PURPOSE IN THIS GENERATION. Remember, I'M HALF AFRICAN AMERICAN. I'm no 'hater' I have my morals and understanding towards that genre.

 

[tm730]

You just wrote to me that violence isn't used in Hip hop (false) and that I don't understand Hip hop (false).

rapping about violence =/= actually doing the violence

not that it isnt used but it gives people a choice not to resort to acts of violence

same concept with VIDEO GAMES, MOVIES, or other forms of entertainment

Lastly, I know it was created to express, but as always people took garbage too far. So, that is why I'm against a worthless trash like that genre, there is nothing else to whine about, WE ARE NOT SLAVES ANYMORE.
re.

seriously?

so blacks have to be in slavery to explain about how society doesnt favor them?

out of curiosity, have you had any conversations with your African American family members about this?

 

[Chinaux]

You just wrote to me that violence isn't used in Hip hop (false) and that I don't understand Hip hop (false).

Lastly, I know it was created to express, but as always people took garbage too far. So, that is why I'm against a worthless trash like that genre, there is nothing else to whine about, WE ARE NOT SLAVES ANYMORE.

So, if my race wants to show peace then kindly burn this genre and promote something else that ACTUALLY HAS A TRUE PURPOSE IN THIS GENERATION. Remember, I'M HALF AFRICAN AMERICAN. I'm no 'hater' I have my morals and understanding towards that genre.

There are other rap songs besides hot ***** by bobby shmurda
Also, that's your opinion man. Some people like this

but nobody complains about how bad this is.
but this guy is just a troll

Upon first listen, I had no idea what this asinine excuse for a recording was meant to convey. Through further inspection, my brain insisted that the artist must suffer from some sort of cognitive dissonance disorder, possibly over time, accumulating a hefty sum of backed up ear wax, stretching from canal to brain, preventing any attempt at cohesion or semblance of structure in the work. Douchebags and assholes will site this record as pure genius.

It took a lot of hallucinogenic mushrooms and painkillers, but after the first 18 listens I found a few parts kinda catchy.

 

[Sehnsucht]

What's the consensus on heavy metal music?

If I listen to it too much and watch too many metal music videos, am I going to grow out my hear, wear leather and chains, get tattoos and piercings, rebel against my parents and other sources of authority, become more violent and aggressive, and start worshiping Satan?

I already do all of those things as an avid Jazz fanatic, but I'm just throwing this out there for the floor.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

rapping about violence =/= actually doing the violence

not that it isnt used but it gives people a choice not to resort to acts of violence

same concept with VIDEO GAMES, MOVIES, or other forms of entertainment




seriously?

so blacks have to be in slavery to explain about how society doesnt favor them?

out of curiosity, have you had any conversations with your African American family members about this?

Yes I have and they also agree with what I'm ranting about. The only way I'll ever enjoy that genre is if hOllywood doesn't control it 'oh wait it does,'

@
Chinaux

Troll? Seriously? Sigh, I'm done here.

 

[Chinaux]

What's the consensus on heavy metal music?

If I listen to it too much and watch too many metal music videos, am I going to grow out my hear, wear leather and chains, get tattoos and piercings, rebel against my parents and other sources of authority, become more violent and aggressive, and start worshiping Satan?

I already do all of those things as an avid Jazz fanatic, but I'm just throwing this out there for the floor.

I mean some of my friends are emo kids, and I mean they seem pretty normal. I personally like metal (well it's technically post hardcore) but none of it really makes me want to do any of what you said above. Nobody would expect me to be a fan of screamo/metal but I totally dig it.

I don't judge people's taste in music. There's so many baseless judgements you can make from someone's style in music. Everyone has their own opinion and none of them are right, including mine.

@
Chinaux

Troll? Seriously? Sigh, I'm done here.

I was referring to the artist.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I mean some of my friends are emo kids, and I mean they seem pretty normal. I personally like metal (well it's technically post hardcore) but none of it really makes me want to do any of what you said above. Nobody would expect me to be a fan of screamo/metal but I totally dig it.

I don't judge people's taste in music. There's so many baseless judgements you can make from someone's style in music. Everyone has their own opinion and none of them are right, including mine.

My post was for joke purposes. XD

I'm hugely into metal***, and don't listen to jazz at all, and neither fit into any of the metalhead stereotypes that I listed. I was merely satirizing the notion that music and/or the scene surrounding a particular genre will invariably cause a person to emulate that scene or genre's characteristics.

Violent video games don't cause people to become violent. Such a thing bespeaks only that a person had preexisting violent tendencies (or preexisting emotional issues), and would thus perhaps be more inclined to like violent games. And so it goes for music, and any other entertainment form.

This rationale extends to crime as a whole, actually. Are guns to blame for gun violence, or is it the emotionally-imbalanced individuals who misuse firearms? Is a **** victim to blame for their assault on account of what they were wearing or who they were, or is the perpetrator who committed the assault in the first place the one to blame?

If the current American generation is lost (not that I would know anything about that), I would imagine that entertainment and media may have some role in their "fall", to the extent that entertainment and media do influence and mould culture and norms (though not exclusively so). But modern media and entertainment being problematic are likely to be symptoms of a disease, and not the disease itself. After all, it's people who are promoting these "non-wholesome values" via media and culture, and not the media and culture themselves. Media are like firearms; a firearm can't kill without a trigger finger, and a medium can't influence youth if no one is producing and pushing a given set of values and norms.

If one wishes to rectify the ailing of a generation, focus on curing the disease, and not just treat the symptoms. Because putting a band-aid on the symptoms doesn't guarantee the disease will go away.

***I don't listen to post-hardcore or screamo/emo. I dabble more in melodic death metal, as well as (tech and/or symphonic) death metal, general death metal, (symphonic) black metal, and some progressive stuff. Not into thrash or power metal too much. I've also become a connoisseur of post-rock and shoegaze stuff in recent years.

 

[Chinaux]

My post was for joke purposes. XD

I'm hugely into metal, and don't listen to jazz at all, and neither fit into any of the metalhead stereotypes that I listed. I was merely satirizing the notion that music and/or the scene surrounding a particular genre will invariably cause a person to emulate that scene or genre's characteristics.

Violent video games don't cause people to become violent. Such a thing bespeaks only that a person had preexisting violent tendencies (or preexisting emotional issues), and would thus perhaps be more inclined to like violent games. And so it goes for music, and any other entertainment form.

This rationale extends to crime as a whole, actually. Are guns to blame for gun violence, or is it the emotionally-imbalanced individuals who misuse firearms? Is a **** victim to blame for their assault on account of what they were wearing or who they were, or is the perpetrator who committed the assault in the first place the one to blame?

If the current American generation is lost (not that I would know anything about that), I would imagine that entertainment and media may have some role in their "fall", to the extent that entertainment and media do influence and mould culture and norms (though not exclusively so). But modern media and entertainment being problematic are likely to be symptoms of a disease, and not the disease itself. After all, it's people who are promoting these "non-wholesome values" via media and culture, and not the media and culture themselves. Media are like firearms; a firearm can't kill without a trigger finger, and a medium can't influence youth if no one is producing and pushing a given set of values and norms.

If one wishes to rectify the ailing of a generation, focus on curing the disease, and not just treat the symptoms. Because putting a band-aid on the symptoms doesn't guarantee the disease will go away.

I figured you were joking. Just in case haha.

 

[Claire Diviner]

You just wrote to me that violence isn't used in Hip hop (false) and that I don't understand Hip hop (false).

Lastly, I know it was created to express, but as always people took garbage too far. So, that is why I'm against a worthless trash like that genre, there is nothing else to whine about, WE ARE NOT SLAVES ANYMORE.

Hate not the genre, but those who do nothing productive with it.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

A degenerative economy leads to a degenerative culture with degenerative habits.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I made a saying years ago in high school; a saying I still strongly believe until proven wrong:

The vestiges of humanity's sanity dilute with each passing generation.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Oh, a chain of personal quotes. I wanna do one! I wanna do one!

teenagers being stupid: more inevitable then either death or taxes.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

"The attributes of human discomfort aren't ceased by others but by their life choices to dwell in misery~"

 

[Kay kay]

Whats with the quote spam 0-0 I prefer stated opinions that aren't quoted, but ok lol

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

That's my quote that I've wrote a while back from just life being life. People choose their fate from their decisions. It's just that simple.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@ Kay kay and @ N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

I suggest for both of you to bring sources to the table. I get the impression that you guys haven't actually done any research towards your points, and are going off of generalizations. That's bad debating. The burden of proof is on you guys, so you're going to need to prove your point. "Well, uh, I think we were first in education" isn't going to cut it.

 

[Kay kay]

@ Kay kay and @ N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

I suggest for both of you to bring sources to the table. I get the impression that you guys haven't actually done any research towards your points, and are going off of generalizations. That's bad debating. The burden of proof is on you guys, so you're going to need to prove your point. "Well, uh, I think we were first in education" isn't going to cut it.

I'm not sure why you would bring those matters up if you haven't stated your own opinion contributing to the conversation. Alrighty then.

I am in a science debating team. My apologies, I'm not used to debating topics like these very often. I try, however. I've done my research, and America was indeed acceclarated farther than now. I exaggerated, apologies. We were not top, but we were pretty far. And now our cruiculum foceses more on kids passing rather than getting them to understand things. I'm just trying to point out that the adults these kids become may not be leader material.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think what he meant was to cite your opinions. Generally if you make claim, because we're an online forum, you'll be expected to provide links to the studies and statistics from which you derived your opinion.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

It hasn't even been touched upon clarifying which 'generation' we're talking about. The Millenials? The Baby Boomers? The fact that the Millenial generation is such a large span of time that it covers most of the people posting here just makes it embarrassing to see people attempt to distinguish themselves as being part of a different generation from their cohorts who are just five or ten years younger than themselves.

In fact, anyone who has spent any amount of time reading up on social division amongst age population should notice that many of the distinctions being made amongst current generations are embarrassing. Notably the attempt to abstract a Generation Z from the Millenials and this generational discrimination is pointless too look at from a 'generational' standpoint since the pure fact is that the motivating reason for a shift in identification is largely due to how the economy has influenced the Millenials to have simply become the Man Child Generation that will continue for some time to come.

This thread itself is a radical indicator of how times change compared to how boards like these were treated in a short time span of four, six, or ten years ago. It's false to consider a conversation like this a debate, considering there are no elements of debate at work here and really just individuals sharing broad and general opinions that have no actual metric behind gauging how their point weighs on any criteria since there is no criteria present gauging the cogency of any of the statements they are making.

 

[SilentBob]

So what are the conclusions we can get out of this thread?

Hitler was american and listened to rap. This is what led him to do the things he did.