AfroGamerNinja
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 20, 2015
- Messages
- 205
- NNID
- FluffyWarlock
I'm asking, since I feel like this sub-forum is devoid of life.
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Sorry I might be a bit behind here: What’s the stigma in using them? Where’s the disadvantage?I don't think there are many Belmont mains considering the stigma around using them, and there are 70 other characters to use so it's not that surprising. They also probably have the worst disadvantage of all of the projectile zoners in the game(other than K.Rool), so people feel discouraged in using them.
Stigma: skill-less, item-spamming, disjoint abusing noob-stompers.Sorry I might be a bit behind here: What’s the stigma in using them? Where’s the disadvantage?
Do you have an invite to that Discord, please?The sub-forum is devoid of life because I Discord has pretty much replaced it. There's definitely a few belmonts out there, just not many that post here.
Sure! All you really have to do is go to the Smashcords character discords and look for the Simon/Richter discord.Do you have an invite to that Discord, please?
Of course you can react to most projectiles in the game. Why is that Belmont exclusive? Terrible FaF? Have you looked at the frame data? Cross and Holy Water has less end lag than Ness' PK fire, Marios' fireball, Palutena's projectiles, Pikachu's/Pichu's thundershock, and has less start up than boomerang and most aforementioned projectiles. What are you talking about? Are you just fixating on Axe?The bad news is this character is likely bottom 5 if we're talking 1v1.
Here are the major points:
1. All of his projectiles can be reacted to, they are slow startup and terrible FAF
2. At higher levels of play parrying just destroys him
3. At higher levels of play Belmont gets nothing from a parry, literally an f-tilt, that's it, he can't kill at all from a parry because of #6
4. His frame data is terrible, awful, worst in the game
5. His hurtbox extension is absurd, every move extends his hurtbox to a ludicrous degree
6. His hitboxes are tiny, and often fail to properly connect vs shifting opponent hurtboxes or trade or lose due to #5
7. He has no landing options, D-air is awful
8. His recovery is little-mac levels of bad
9. His grab is terrible, like god awful range
10. His overall kill power is too low, yes situational low % kills can happen but it's just too damn low overall
11. His combo game is great but they all work in tiny % ranges and no one is using it at all right now
The only hope for this character is #1 patches and #2 improving his combo game. Right now he's still in the noob killer and no-familiarity phase but soon he plummets down tier lists like a rock. Mark my words.
His fastest projectile is cross at frame 19 AND its travel speed is abysmal slow, unless this is thrown point blank your grandma can block it on reaction. Let's not even talk axe at frame 30. You have a half second to react to axe on startup and you're literally in DDD f-smash territory on anything past the initial rise of the axe. Do not talk about Palutena's projectiles in the same frame of reference, explosive flame may be frame 28 but it travels *instantly*. And it has better properties.Of course you can react to most projectiles in the game. Why is that Belmont exclusive? Terrible FaF? Have you looked at the frame data? Cross and Holy Water has less end lag than Ness' PK fire, Marios' fireball, Palutena's projectiles, Pikachu's/Pichu's thundershock, and has less start up than boomerang and most aforementioned projectiles. What are you talking about? Are you just fixating on Axe?
You can hit his goddamn arm. Remember that hurtbox extension? Aim to hit his arm. He can be hit by a sword counter at near-to-full range and parry destroys him at anything but pixels of tipper f-tilt.Parrying destroys him? Have you tested this? I assume not, since you couldn't even look at his frame data for his projectiles. I couldn't punish Ftilt after a parry using Fox or Marcina, using the tap by frame. Most characters don't have the ability to close the distance and hit after a parry.
You're joking right? Frame 14 "isn't bad" means you're going to need to play more smash. His fastest aerial is frame 8 Nair - which is goddamn slow - and startup hitbox has him creamed from below. His D-air is frame 13 and loses to everything under the sun because his hurtbox is right beside his tiny hitbox. His dissadvantage state is called "Juggle me over and over again". Like zero options. Retreating the ledge is even more dangerous then sucking up a heaping pile of damage trying your 2 options to regain your feet - D-air and airdodge - over and over.Worst frame data? Have you looked at other characters? Characters like Zelda, Snake, most heavies, have sick end lag on their aerials. 14 frame start up isn't bad at all for their range, and they auto cancel really early. Sounds like you have a hate boner for this character.
Oh I do, I really do. His tether is all but trivially intercepted. His air acceleration is the *worst* in the game and little mac actually creams us in top speed.Little Mac recovery? Hello? Tether? It's one of the better close range options for recovery, angled tether can't be blocked by being in front of him, and he recovers much farther than little mac ever could. You have no idea what you're talking about.
D-smash is frame goddamn 14, it's +3 frame advantage on a parry and you can reliably get out a frame 10 move vs any parried aerials (Samus F-smash, which is one of if not the best out of parry options). So you're *NEVER* killing out of a parry. Unless they are at 180% near the ledge with an f-tilt. Hit parry game is god-awful. You might as well always Up-B OOS and that kills stupid late. One of the fundamental aspects of smash ultimate, parrying, is completely against this character from the get go.Can't do anything out of parry? I guess you have Belmont all figured out, huh?
FF N-air is a decent landing option?!?! I wrote up all my previous comments but I wouldn't have wasted my time if I had read this first.Fast fall Nair is a decent land option, as well as a whiffed Dair or Dair off stage followed by UpB. Most characters have few landing options, dude.
No. It has everything to do with my arguments. This character is ASS in his present form. He needs *SERIOUS* buffs to be even reasonably competitive. You will see this character purely as a counterpick for a handful of matchups. He's terrible. Godawful.If Belmont drops in the tier lists, fine, but it has nothing to do with your reasonings.
Uhh, I'm probably going to forget about your post in a few minutes or so. You didn't write anything that was relevant to the character, just a bunch of hyperbole that stems from inexperience with Belmont.Should you keep playing the character and fight high skill opponents, you will in time remember my posts Sauce, and remember my points.
I'm not going to go back and forth either, this character is bottom tier and the more the meta progresses the more it will become apparent.
Competitively 1v1 this character is basically dead on arrival. He may have some uses in doubles, or counterpick, but there's likely better.
None of the pro players you mention actually use the character.
It's sad actually. I'm upset but Konami should be furious.
*Looks at Konami* *Looks at Castlevannia pachinko machines* Nah I think they're good. Really, old Castlevania games are hard for a reason: the protagonist's mobility and flexibility is quite low compared to most other heroes at the time. They've been getting knocked into pits from Medusa Heads sneezing on them since the dawn of time. Stands to reason they will be hard to succeed with without great precision and knowing the levels and enemies like the back of your hand.Should you keep playing the character and fight high skill opponents, you will in time remember my posts Sauce, and remember my points.
I'm not going to go back and forth either, this character is bottom tier and the more the meta progresses the more it will become apparent.
Competitively 1v1 this character is basically dead on arrival. He may have some uses in doubles, or counterpick, but there's likely better.
None of the pro players you mention actually use the character.
It's sad actually. I'm upset but Konami should be furious.
Not gonna happen buddy. They're too faithful to who they are, and that includes a weakness to small and/or fast creatures getting all up in their grill.Well meleebrawler I have been closely following Simon from launch, and I know the tech, the combos, the gameplan, the tricks. I've played him more than Samus in fact. I know combos and setups no one else does. It's not enough. I've been at this a long time, you as well, my opinion is that the character is *** and is only going to get worse. The honeymoon is over, matchup unfamiliarity won't save him forever, I've listed all the flaws and they're very real.
Needs buffs, and lots of them.
seems like the same case with isabelle and king k.rool characters that have also been quite absent from the competitive sceneBelmonts are essentially absent from 1v1 online elite smash. They are decent enough in 2v2 and ffa casual formats where you can indeed see them particularly if you check out spectate mode, but the character is just to awful to play online 1v1 with far too many bad matchups.
Many tournament players are also dropping them as the writing is on the wall.
this is incorrect. all of their frame data is identical. walking, running, jumping, their weight, all their attacks, all their hitboxes, and the amount of damage they do are all completely identical.I main Simon out of the two, but Richter is a good character, faster than Simon, but Simon being the stronger of the two.
Yesterday alone, 3 different Richter players and 1 Simon player came into my Arena. The character isn't as rare online as people claim. He's just rare in the competitive scene because of the match up spread.even online i think the belmonts have been abandoned can't remember the last time i fought simon/richter