Did Sakurai do a good job at evening out the competitive side of Brawl?

[Pink Reaper]

I'm with this guy 110%.

<3 Eggm

Also, it needs to be noted that Melee started out very slowly on the competitive side. People just started playing without really looking past the basics of the game. Brawl has had thousands of people ripping it to shreds every single minute of the last 30+ days. Think about it, we've already found so many glitches, bowser's infinite jumps, Falco's dash attack linking(I refuse to call it the DLX whateverthe****) but nothing to make the game any deeper than what it is, a(very fun) PARTY GAME!

 

[Vijin]

This is how anyone who likes competitive fighting games should feel.
.

Imagine saying that to Melee players who 'left' Smash 64 for melee. Nobody would have made melee the game that it is today. I think it's kind of dumb to tell other players that they shouldn't have hope that brawl will be competitive. It could be even more competitive than melee, but people like you certainly don't help in finding out if it is or not.

 

[arrowhead]

i complain a lot and everything, but i'm still playing this game and trying to find new exploits. i just don't have much hope that it will become as competitive as melee because of the mechanics. maybe that's what he feels

 

[Vijin]

Perfect example of join date not being important/

You're just mad because he was referring to the complainers and whiners such as yourself.
Don't be bitter just because you fit the description.

 

[Nesskid]

Nope, I'm gonna stick with melee for a competitive game. I'll play brawl for the fun that's to be had like in SSE and for random groups of friends, but when I want to get my competitive on, I'll play melee.

Ok, but what if someone challenges you to Brawl? And then, what if you CAN'T beat them? Are you just going to make excuses like "I'm used to Melee" or something? That's sounds pretty lame to me, "WHATEVER I PLAY MELEE NOOB I DONT EVEN CARE!"
Or, are you going to try to beat the guy? Cause you know, if you do, that's competition, and that's it.


As has been said before, Brawl is not Melee 2. And yeah everyone realizes that now. However, I think that a lot of people wanted it to be Melee 2. Why? So they could win of coarse! Imagine going to one of those gamestop tournies and winning a copy of the game free because your a kick *** melee player you can kick *** and take names. Melee is an old game, most of the non-dedicated players have moved on or are bored. Now, with Brawl, there are hundreds of thousands of NEW players that veterans can kill. ANd be honest you guys, as much as you love a challenge or a good game, what's better then some scrub talking trash, and you just schooling him because he has never even seen a reflector spike before? THAT IS WHAT MELEE PLAYERS WANTED! They wanted all their hard work over the past years to continue to pay off! They didn't want to start over! MELEE PLAYERS WANTED MELEE 2! However, that's not what we got, we got Brawl. Like it or not, Brawl is not Melee. Also, weather you like it or not, Brawl is the natural progression from the demand of the fan base.

Additionally, many Melee fans who wanted Melee 2 probably fell cheated, or even unappreciated. Here we are, the MOST HARCORD FANS of the game, having to deal with the critism of noobs calling wavedashing a glitch, attacks from 4chan, all the while never putting down our controller, and then with the new game, everything we always argued for is gone. It's almost like a slap in the face. We LOVED Melee! We LOVED the glitches! We LOVED the tactics and the combos and the thing we wanted most out of Brawl was MORE. But, we were all dissapointed.

I find it interesting how the community is responding to the game. I for one am embrassing it. This is the next stage of Super Smash Brothers. Melee will always live on in our hearts but if you don't move on, you're gonna get left behind, and that's all there is to it.

Competition is defined by the players not the game. A game of checkers can be just as competitive as a game of Go, despite the various levels of depth. I want to be the best at Brawl! I want to be at the top of my game and learn all about these new characters and their new moves. I want to choose the Ice Climbers against a Sonic player and think "Ok, I know what this guy's gonna do, I've played plenty of Sonic's before."

If you want to stay stuck in the past with Melee then go ahead, but there are gonna be a lot of Brawl players, and when they challenge you to a game of Brawl and you say "How about Melee?" they're not gonna care, they're just gonna say no thanks.

I am a Melee player, I am a Brawl player. I am a Super Smash Brothers player. I love the game, no matter what they do to it, even if I randomly trip when I'm about to win the biggest tournament of life and then lose it all, I still love the game. And right now, I'm gonna go play it. (Brawl that is )

 

[Pink Reaper]

So what, if I challenged you to a game of melee you'd just say "WHATEVER, I PLAY BRAWL OLD***, I DON'T EVEN CARE" lol.

Its not that I don't want to move on, its that I don't think we should move on. The fact that Brawl is new doesn't mean its better and it doesn't mean the community should instantly latch on to it. Ask yourself this, and I want you to think long and hard about it, why are you moving on to Brawl? Don't answer right away, think about it for a while, then tell me, are you moving on to Brawl because its better or because its what everyone else is doing.

 

[AerionTOFAST4U]

Nesskid....you read my mind...... :O

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Ok, but what if someone challenges you to Brawl? And then, what if you CAN'T beat them? Are you just going to make excuses like "I'm used to Melee" or something? That's sounds pretty lame to me, "WHATEVER I PLAY MELEE NOOB I DONT EVEN CARE!"
Or, are you going to try to beat the guy? Cause you know, if you do, that's competition, and that's it.


As has been said before, Brawl is not Melee 2. And yeah everyone realizes that now. However, I think that a lot of people wanted it to be Melee 2. Why? So they could win of coarse! Imagine going to one of those gamestop tournies and winning a copy of the game free because your a kick *** melee player you can kick *** and take names. Melee is an old game, most of the non-dedicated players have moved on or are bored. Now, with Brawl, there are hundreds of thousands of NEW players that veterans can kill. ANd be honest you guys, as much as you love a challenge or a good game, what's better then some scrub talking trash, and you just schooling him because he has never even seen a reflector spike before? THAT IS WHAT MELEE PLAYERS WANTED! They wanted all their hard work over the past years to continue to pay off! They didn't want to start over! MELEE PLAYERS WANTED MELEE 2! However, that's not what we got, we got Brawl. Like it or not, Brawl is not Melee. Also, weather you like it or not, Brawl is the natural progression from the demand of the fan base.

Additionally, many Melee fans who wanted Melee 2 probably fell cheated, or even unappreciated. Here we are, the MOST HARCORD FANS of the game, having to deal with the critism of noobs calling wavedashing a glitch, attacks from 4chan, all the while never putting down our controller, and then with the new game, everything we always argued for is gone. It's almost like a slap in the face. We LOVED Melee! We LOVED the glitches! We LOVED the tactics and the combos and the thing we wanted most out of Brawl was MORE. But, we were all dissapointed.

I find it interesting how the community is responding to the game. I for one am embrassing it. This is the next stage of Super Smash Brothers. Melee will always live on in our hearts but if you don't move on, you're gonna get left behind, and that's all there is to it.

Competition is defined by the players not the game. A game of checkers can be just as competitive as a game of Go, despite the various levels of depth. I want to be the best at Brawl! I want to be at the top of my game and learn all about these new characters and their new moves. I want to choose the Ice Climbers against a Sonic player and think "Ok, I know what this guy's gonna do, I've played plenty of Sonic's before."

If you want to stay stuck in the past with Melee then go ahead, but there are gonna be a lot of Brawl players, and when they challenge you to a game of Brawl and you say "How about Melee?" they're not gonna care, they're just gonna say no thanks.

I am a Melee player, I am a Brawl player. I am a Super Smash Brothers player. I love the game, no matter what they do to it, even if I randomly trip when I'm about to win the biggest tournament of life and then lose it all, I still love the game. And right now, I'm gonna go play it. (Brawl that is )

Ummm nope. You're wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.

If someone challenges you to Brawl you can just tell them you refuse because you don't like Brawl and you'd rather not play it. If he tries to force you to play a game you don't really like, he's an ******* and you shouldn't associate with him. End of story. I'm not under an obligation to accept a Brawl challenge if I don't want to play Brawl, just like I'm not under an obligation to accept a Checkers challenge because I think it's a lame, boring game.

People didn't want "melee 2.0" because they wanted to win. They already knew they would win. They just wanted a game that was at least as exciting and frenetic as Melee, and they didn't get it. Their hard work already has paid off. Competent Melee players are already way better at Brawl than 95% of the people playing Brawl. There was no "starting over." Who's arguably the best Brawl play in the world right now? Oh that's right, it's Azen. Who else are among the best Brawl players? Mew2King, Chudat and Chillin. I play with competent Melee players who adapted so quickly to Brawl that they made it look like they've been playing it for a year. What Melee players wanted was a good game, and instead they got Brawl.

Fact is, there's a decent chance Melee is going to stay alive, unless a truly competent sequel to Melee comes out later, and maybe even if that happens. The backlash to Brawl's engine simplification is severe enough for it to happen. It has happened before in other competitive communities, and frankly, at this point I'm really hoping it will happen. I was looking forward to Brawl for so long because I wanted a fresh start so I could compete better against the Melee players I play with who have years of experience over me. But after playing Brawl, I realized that I'd rather just struggle harder in a superior game.

 

[PwnyRide]

are you moving on to Brawl because its better or because its what everyone else is doing.

Neither. Moving to Brawl because change is a good thing.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Not when your changing from something good to something bad(from a competitive standpoint)

 

[PwnyRide]

I suppose competitives (not a generalisation of the entire lot of you) will never be truly happy then.

 

[Pink Reaper]

We were happy with Melee >.>

Edit: Be honest, you know that melee worked for both the casual and the competitives, but Brawl really is only for the casual. There's nothing wrong with that, im a gamer not just a competitive, I don't HAVE to have competitive games, but when I DO want to play a competitive game, Brawl is not going to be it >.>

 

[PwnyRide]

We were happy with Melee >.>

Gah i didnt correct it. 'Never truly be happy with Sakurai's vision af a flattened out smash game'

Hey, at least melee will be pretty much a competitive only domain now, now Sakurai has given us casuals something to really dig our teeth into

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

I can accept them taking out wavedashing. Honestly, I can. Crouch canceling and Jump canceling, not so much. But L-Canceling is where I lost my ****. Seriously, L-Canceling was desperately needed to play some characters. Falcon, Bowser, even Marth. I loved L-canceling. I don't understand why they'd take out a mechanic like it after two games.

Of Course, Z-canceling was too much, but everyone could've lived with the Melee 50% reduction. It really killed the game for me. Now, everyone's going to play ridiculously quick characters with little lag.

 

[Scintillatedseed]

Sakurai did a fantastic job of evening out the competitive-ness. Not to say that I'm happy about it, but he really looked into a lot of things. From dash dancing(it's pretty sueless now), to l-canceling, to ledge hopping, to laser spamming, to what have you. But understanding his vision, I think it's time to accept that brawl won't be melee, and having the game out for over a month now, I realize, this game probably will not be as deep as melee. Technically it can't. Will it generate as much money competitively? Well who cares really, that's not making nintendo money.

But what Sakurai wanted was a game for people to jump into and not be freaked out by the online competitors. It probably will still happen to an extnet because veterans tend to always find some way around the game, but he did a very good job of evening things around. But a lot of intermediate player, can probably go online and play and win against anybody because of the game mechanics are really made for anybody to pick up and play.

The reality though for any new players is that he wanted to welcome a wider audience to gaming. And in that respect, he's done fairly **** ****ing well for brawl. Just look at the sales. Does it satisfy the competitive community? Well... We can be complaining now, but i'm sure we'll find our way around it if the prize is $10 000 dollars. With over 8 million people around the world playing that game, it's pretty **** hard not to find a competitive scene grow. How far it will go is another question. But with EVO 2k8 picking the game up and millions of Wii owners across the world playing online, there's bound to be much more tournaments going on. EB Games is already running their tournament here in canada with brawls release. But how far this game goes, is entirely another quesiton. One things for sure, bringing in a larger gaming community offers more opportunity for competition and to increase the level of it.

Will it be like melee? Probably not, but for me personally as a gamer, I'd have to settle for business side of the reality, and move on to waiting it out and seeing what the competitions like. But in general I think there's enough competition in other aspects of life to ease this one out. As sad as it is, brawl looks like it won't be, or can't be melee. It simply wasn't made to be. Change is always a hard thing for all of us, and accepting brawl as a lesser form of what it could've been is utterly heart-breaking. But I think it's time we all accept it.

 

[the656]

i ready have

 

[Pink Reaper]

Sakurai did a fantastic job of evening out the competitive-ness. Not to say that I'm happy about it, but he really looked into a lot of things. From dash dancing(it's pretty sueless now), to l-canceling, to ledge hopping, to laser spamming, to what have you. But understanding his vision, I think it's time to accept that brawl won't be melee, and having the game out for over a month now, I realize, this game probably will not be as deep as melee. Technically it can't. Will it generate as much money competitively? Well who cares really, that's not making nintendo money.

But what Sakurai wanted was a game for people to jump into and not be freaked out by the online competitors. It probably will still happen to an extnet because veterans tend to always find some way around the game, but he did a very good job of evening things around. But a lot of intermediate player, can probably go online and play and win against anybody because of the game mechanics are really made for anybody to pick up and play.

The reality though for any new players is that he wanted to welcome a wider audience to gaming. And in that respect, he's done fairly **** ****ing well for brawl. Just look at the sales. Does it satisfy the competitive community? Well... We can be complaining now, but i'm sure we'll find our way around it if the prize is $10 000 dollars. With over 8 million people around the world playing that game, it's pretty **** hard not to find a competitive scene grow. How far it will go is another question. But with EVO 2k8 picking the game up and millions of Wii owners across the world playing online, there's bound to be much more tournaments going on. EB Games is already running their tournament here in canada with brawls release. But how far this game goes, is entirely another quesiton. One things for sure, bringing in a larger gaming community offers more opportunity for competition and to increase the level of it.

Will it be like melee? Probably not, but for me personally as a gamer, I'd have to settle for business side of the reality, and move on to waiting it out and seeing what the competitions like. But in general I think there's enough competition in other aspects of life to ease this one out. As sad as it is, brawl looks like it won't be, or can't be melee. It simply wasn't made to be. Change is always a hard thing for all of us, and accepting brawl as a lesser form of what it could've been is utterly heart-breaking. But I think it's time we all accept it.

But in all honesty, there's no need to accept it. The fact that Melee is better, and that we have Melee(Im pretty sure everyone here has Melee, if you don't have Melee, go out and buy it, its amazing) means we can just keep playing melee. I understand that usually change has to be accepted, but there literally is no reason to switch from Melee to Brawl as of right now. Yes its new, yes the Brawl n00bs will hate me for saying this and flame me for saying Melee is better than Brawl, but if its accepted that Melee is better than Brawl, why switch?

 

[DARKMIKE]

its sad, really sad that sakurai said that he didnt want it to be competative. he said thats why he didnt bother to add rankings, custom match for on-line and pro-type at's, any one who says its not smash 2.0 or its a "new game" give it a while can go suck a di(k!! like arrow head said, you expand not deteriorate. and thats what brawl is, a deterioation. i wish i could smack sakurai, smash was.....a beautiful game, yeah, it had its cracks and faults, but it was close to perfection. all it needed was balancing, thats all period. if you complain that wavedashing was a glitch, and youre glad they took it out, shut your f*cking noob mouth, you obviously didnt(and proably wont)understand the deeper realm of competative smash mechanics....dumb noob. smash shouldnt have been changed, if you think different, your either a dumb noob or a homosexual in denial. imagine all the positive aspects of brawl(extended chars, balanced chars, improved sng player, online!) thrown into melee....(long sigh) he would have garnered more prestiege if he didnt severely screw things up, when you make a sequel...IMPROVE, F*CK!!! tripping?!?! are you serious, so now when player are doing things they have the chance of slipping and falling on the ground?!?! can you belive i tripped in the air and ended up dying because of it!!??!?!?! lol.......lol.....lol...what a failure...

noobs couldnt keep up and forced sakurai to slow it down to keep up with their slow mental capacity. melee will always be better that brawl. oh..ho..i can already tell your going to flame me noob, thats how garbage you are noob, i can read you before you even post.....noob.

 

[xpnet]

because japan doesn't exist

face it: brawl's mechanics basically guarantees that it won't become as competitive as melee. that's why you should all play on HIGH GRAVITY MODE

This house plays "High Gravity, Fast Game Speed, Damage ratio 1.4" .. it seams like the only way to get a good game going..

Depending on who is over we might do normal game speed.

and F THEM LOADING TIMES!!!

 

[Dream Chaser]

I'm willing to try brawl.
I have played it briefly (japan version) but I really didnt get much chance to get used to the movement etc.
Unfortunately I have to wait a long time before I can do that.

The only thing I can say with any degree of certainty i that yes, the loading times are much longer

with luck, the reason for late release is to remove unfair glitches like falling through the stage etc


Competitive players will beat casual players. The experience, skill and (I suppose) tactics advantage that a competitive player will have would mean that a more experienced player should win. Its not like casuals have the advantage now. Therefore, there should be no reason to complain about the competitive-ness of brawl. If your a better player, you'll win. Otherwise, the other player must be better.

 

[VVayfarer]

Nesskid wins this thread. *Claps*

 

[Riolu]

Yeah, I guess so. Everyone can become a little more competitive with Brawl, so there are more people to face. That increases the odds of fighting against a truly good player, rather than someone who thinks there good.

I'm willing to bet that all the Advanced techiniques haven't been found out yet. It's only been a little over a month.

 

[zomg]

All the special moves that you can do are in the game already. There are no "hidden moves". If some are found later, they most likely werent meant to be there.

 

[VVayfarer]

All the special moves that you can do are in the game already. There are no "hidden moves". If some are found later, they most likely werent meant to be there.

Uh... what can I say....

Welcome to smashboards!

 

[Fletch]

I think everyone who is happy that the competitive scene has been 'leveled' (due to the lack of wavedashing and L-canceling) really isn't that happy.

Because now when they get beat down they won't have any excuse like 'oh well he uses advanced techs.'

There is no advantage to it, the only people who would be happy that we've made the transition are those who were not the best and were not striving to be the best. Since now everyone's starting out on equal footing they have another shot which they know they won't take but since the window is open they are enjoying the view. It'll fade soon and we'll discover advanced techs and what not and they'll come up with more excuses to why they lost and we'll fall into the same **** as melee, only on a less technically skilled game.


My friend came over today and we had a few 1 v 1's. In Melee I usually 2/3 stocked him in a 4 stock match, any way we played about 4/5 matches and I 3 stocked him once, and the others were kind of close. He never beat me once. This tells me that even though it's a new game, the standards are still going to be some what the same. And now we're stuck with a lesser game and in a few years the causal players will still be *****ing.



But personally, Brawl could have been a lot worse and a lot better. So I'll play it, and I'll strive to be the best, and it'll be fun. I do regret having to leave Melee behind, though.

Proof that the new members can make intelligent posts from time to time.

As far as my feelings, Brawl is fun, but I will stick to Melee if I want to play seriously.

But in all honesty, there's no need to accept it. The fact that Melee is better, and that we have Melee(Im pretty sure everyone here has Melee, if you don't have Melee, go out and buy it, its amazing) means we can just keep playing melee. I understand that usually change has to be accepted, but there literally is no reason to switch from Melee to Brawl as of right now. Yes its new, yes the Brawl n00bs will hate me for saying this and flame me for saying Melee is better than Brawl, but if its accepted that Melee is better than Brawl, why switch?

Pink Reaper put it perfectly.

 

[Fast and Furious]

You don't find the competetive edge in a game - The game finds the competetive edge in you.

 

[kingofping4]

Everyone I know personally that uses advanced techniques in melee only did it to show off. It was their way of saying "I'm better than you because I spend time perfecting these things that you don't even bother with."

And I accepted that. I never cared enough about the competition to bother spending the necessary time to perfect those techs. I tried, but I got bored and felt like I was taking the fun out of the game because practicing those techs was not fun.

So what I see now is people don't have an easy way to brag that they're better than anyone else because they can't show off their advanced techs. Now they have to prove they're better in an actually pretty balanced and level field. So now when you win, it's because you're better at the game as a whole, not just better at the techniques that were found from "breaking the game engine."

To clarify, I'm not considering tiers here. In a Marth v Marth in melee, if one used advanced techs and the other didn't, the user would win. The non-user can't compete because he either can't use or doesn't know about these techniques and this puts him at a disadvantage. In brawl, pretty much anything you see your opponent do, you can do as well. I see this as leading to the evolution of fights while they happen, and will eventually create more competition as almost anyone thinks they can come in and win.

We won't see as much "elitism" between casuals and competitives, because everyone can be either or even both. So when you beat a casual he can't say it's just because "you used those cheap tricks/glitches/techniques" and when you lose to a casual you can't say it's because you didn't have your techniques. The winner is going to be the better player, just like it was in melee.

So you can spend your hours/days/weeks practicing brawl, but really all that gets you is an edge in experience because the guy who plays twice a week can still find all the "techs" that you found.

Winners will win because they play this game for what it is. Losers will lose because they play this game for what it is, just not as well as the winner plays. Whiners will lose because they play this game while wishing they were playing melee.

 

[Nao Hikari]

I think that if you want to play brawl then play brawl. If you want to stick to melee then do so, just don't complain that brawl isn't melee. Obviously it isn't, and obviously sakurai didn't want it to be. If it pisses you off so much, then you go to japan, overthrow sakurai, and make your own version of the game. I guarantee that people will still ***** about how you made it, and say that it could be better.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Its not as fast, but the combos are definately there. It took me 1 day to get use to it, I'm anyone can. Just find a character and learn their combos and mind games. The thing I like about Brawl is that most characters are pretty **** balanced.

 

[Firesoul1]

Brawl is yet to get "Tournament-ready" as compared to melee.
The glitches are in fact there, they just need to be found and exploited.

 

[arrowhead]

Everyone I know personally that uses advanced techniques in melee only did it to show off. It was their way of saying "I'm better than you because I spend time perfecting these things that you don't even bother with."

And I accepted that. I never cared enough about the competition to bother spending the necessary time to perfect those techs. I tried, but I got bored and felt like I was taking the fun out of the game because practicing those techs was not fun.

Whiners will lose because they play this game while wishing they were playing melee.

you found playing the game competitively boring. so you shouldn't be better than your friend. not now, now in the future. it's that simple.

i'm a whiner. want to play?

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Question:
What possible benefit is there to "evening out" the competitive side? It's dumbing it down, making the game limited and less deep. The less technical it is, the faster you'll reach peak technical potential. There will be little to improve once you reach that point and have learned everything there is to know about the characters' metagames.

Since everything's easier to do from a technical standpoint, you also won't screw up as much, which makes the game even a bigger turtling game.

And still, what possible benefit could you get from dumbing the game down? People who weren't Competitive players back in Melee's days won't magically become better than the Competitive people now. Competitive people are competitive because they play the game on a "different" level. They try to learn everything about the game and develop strategies that Casual players couldn't even dream of (since Competitive players not only consult themselves but each other in the forming of strategies).

In Melee, Casual players didn't care about Competitive Smash (or at least its level). They chose not to wavedash, L-cancel and whatnot. It was their choice. Our choice was to use all of that. Now a lot of it is gone. Is it better? Why? Because both sides are now left with no choice (since they're gone)?

Why would you go out of your way to "level the playing field" to make the skill gap between Casual and Competitive smaller? From a Competitive standpoint, that's illogical. Heck, from a Casual stand point, it's still illogical. Why would someone wish for a game to make it easier for you to become as good as the best in the game (as some claims Brawl is, I disagree, but the gap is smaller now, yeah)? That means that there's little reward to investing time into becoming good at the game.

You can spend years improving at the game and yet the level you play it on won't be that much different from the level Casual #521 plays it on. It means that the rewards for hard work is much smaller now. Is that really what we want? A game where you don't get that much from investing years into becoming good at it?

The Casual players will still play on a Casual level with a Casual mindset. Those who did not wish to invest a lot of time into Melee still won't automatically invest a lot of time into Brawl because it's now easier from a technical standpoint.

Technical level is not the only judge of skill in this game, and there's also still a decent amount of tech to be had in it. It's just that the INTENDED gameplay is not completely destroyed by the new technical stuff that is found. There are plenty of mind games to be had, and it still rewards smart play above all else. Melee may have also done that, but it rewarded the technical player the most. You had to be smart WITH the technical stuff. Brawl is a much better game.

As for skill gaps not being as big because of that, that's completely untrue. I've destroyed everyone I've fought so far. There is still plenty of room for skill. I win because I play smart. Other people can do it too.

 

[batsman415]

There are AT's in the game, but they dont all apply to every character. This game makes has really diverse playing styles for each character, and each character has its own quirks (Squirtles hydroplaning for example). Give it a year or two, and well be looking at Brawl in a different light. If you wanna play melee go for it, but im gonna be to busy trying to get as good as possible at Brawl.

And yeah i know i have a low post count.....

 

[br4n]

completely agree with knihT

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Everyone I know personally that uses advanced techniques in melee only did it to show off. It was their way of saying "I'm better than you because I spend time perfecting these things that you don't even bother with."

And I accepted that. I never cared enough about the competition to bother spending the necessary time to perfect those techs. I tried, but I got bored and felt like I was taking the fun out of the game because practicing those techs was not fun.

Take this paragraph and apply it to any endeavor or sport . Its cute. Practice makes perfect

 

[Dogenzaka]

If you honestly think Melee is so much better, and downright forsake Brawl, then please leave the Brawl section, and go play your outdated game, and give your copy of Brawl to someone who deserves, cherishes, and wishes they had it. Please.

 

[arrowhead]

Technical level is not the only judge of skill in this game, and there's also still a decent amount of tech to be had in it. It's just that the INTENDED gameplay is not completely destroyed by the new technical stuff that is found. There are plenty of mind games to be had, and it still rewards smart play above all else. Melee may have also done that, but it rewarded the technical player the most. You had to be smart WITH the technical stuff. Brawl is a much better game.

As for skill gaps not being as big because of that, that's completely untrue. I've destroyed everyone I've fought so far. There is still plenty of room for skill. I win because I play smart. Other people can do it too.

the people who really wanted to play competitively took the time to learn the techniques. the people who didn't care to learn don't deserve to be good at the game. the techs and mechanics melee had added depth to the game. everything was quicker and we had more choices in the same situations. why should they simplify the game so the large number of noobs can... actually i have no idea what the benefit of toning down the game is. competitive players will still beat noobs without the techs. with the techs, competitive players will still beat noobs but noobs will still have as much fun as before

sakurai hates competitive smash. that's a fact

 

[Fletch]

Brawl is yet to get "Tournament-ready" as compared to melee.
The glitches are in fact there, they just need to be found and exploited.

You so sure about this? I hope you're right, Brawl needs something to make the game competitive because right now it's laughably easy.

the people who really wanted to play competitively took the time to learn the techniques. the people who didn't care to learn don't deserve to be good at the game. the techs and mechanics melee had added depth to the game. everything was quicker and we had more choices in the same situations. why should they simplify the game so the large number of noobs can... actually i have no idea what the benefit of toning down the game is. competitive players will still beat noobs without the techs. with the techs, competitive players will still beat noobs but noobs will still have as much fun as before

sakurai hates competitive smash. that's a fact

Agree 100%.

 

[Dogenzaka]

why should they simplify the game so the large number of noobs can...

Because if you didn't already figure it out, the casual market in video games is the most profitable. Obviously, catering to that crowd = more money, genius.

the people who didn't care to learn don't deserve to be good at the game.

People who trained with Melee and expected to apply their skills to Brawl are idiots, when it's been known for nearly two years about Brawl's physical mechanics being different.

You couldn't "learn" for Brawl. It hasn't even been out a week. People just got it. NOW is the time to train for the Brawl competitive scene.

You so sure about this? I hope you're right, Brawl needs something to make the game competitive because right now it's laughably easy.

Are you serious? You're desiring cheap exploits to be found? Easy? I'm sure if you played someone like Ken you'd still lose. Nothing really changed, except wavedashing, a couple of exploits, and a little more floaty gameplay. The game still works like it used to, knock the opponent off the stage, and the best player will win. The best player will always win. You act like no matter what happens you will never lose or something. Maybe you're playing against CPU opponents, but the game isn't laughably easy if you play against real, good people.

 

[arrowhead]

Because if you didn't already figure it out, the casual market in video games is the most profitable. Obviously, catering to that crowd = more money, genius.

keeping the competitive edge to the game won't detract from casual play, genius

People who trained with Melee and expected to apply their skills to Brawl are idiots, when it's been known for nearly two years about Brawl's physical mechanics being different.

You couldn't "learn" for Brawl. It hasn't even been out a week. People just got it. NOW is the time to train for the Brawl competitive scene.

read my quote in context of the discussion

Are you serious? You're desiring cheap exploits to be found? Easy? I'm sure if you played someone like Ken you'd still lose. Nothing really changed, except wavedashing, a couple of exploits, and a little more floaty gameplay. The game still works like it used to, knock the opponent off the stage, and the best player will win. The best player will always win. You act like no matter what happens you will never lose or something. Maybe you're playing against CPU opponents, but the game isn't laughably easy if you play against real, good people.

"cheap" exploits hm? i can tell you probably weren't good at melee. anything to make the game more technically advanced isn't going to hurt. "nothing really changed"? have you even played melee?