Did Sakurai do a good job at evening out the competitive side of Brawl?

[DeathNote]

Imo he did even out the gap between competitive and casual by making it smaller.


It will be competitive, just not as much as Melee. Still, you do need skill to win. I mean a game can be competitive as long as it is more skill than luck based. A skilled player will always beat a casual one with no items/crappy stage to interfere.

The gap between casual and competitive will be smaller now, but it can still be a competitive game.

Just one thing... if you are going to take out L-cancelling (which was an official technic) then why would you ad something as stupid as random tripping?

 

[DreamCaster]

Pure ignorance. You're saying that they were at a disadvantage because they didn't want to take time to learn. If you don't put time into ANYTHING you do in life, you won't be successful at it. End of story.

That being said, everyone who is now complaining about SSBB why don't you TAKE THE TIME to learn to be successful with Brawl too instead of complaining all the time?

 

[DonkeyHimer]

delete post

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

I think the changes were pretty much all improvements, competitive or casual. I mean, let's see...

- Heavies are greatly improved, actually fun to play as. They no longer are just big targets.
- Zelda is an honest to goodness "character" now, and not just "that mistake you made when you were playing Shiek".
- And similarly, Shiek is no longer the most perfect and easy to win with instant combo king ever.
- Moves that seemed useless the last time now have a more of a use. Conversely, overly spammed moves have been nerfed a bit.
- Improved combat between nearly ALL characters, and not just "Fox can combo best since he falls the fastest".
- Air dodge mechanic has a use beyond "wavedash", as you no longer are a sitting duck after you dodge.
- Perfect shielding/power shielding actually can be performed much more consistently and has more of a use, despite how it no longer reflects projectiles.
- Tether recoveries are easier to use and more useful.
- Many strong moves gain "super armor" frames so they can be used more often.

That's a lot of nice things. But it gets lost in a sea of "It's too slow", "Melee was better", and "Who thought tripping was a good idea". So many people are getting wrapped up and vocal about the flaws of the game to want to explore it, or re-learn it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think the changes were pretty much all improvements, competitive or casual. I mean, let's see...

- Heavies are greatly improved, actually fun to play as. They no longer are just big targets.
- Zelda is an honest to goodness "character" now, and not just "that mistake you made when you were playing Shiek".
- And similarly, Shiek is no longer the most perfect and easy to win with instant combo king ever.
- Moves that seemed useless the last time now have a more of a use. Conversely, overly spammed moves have been nerfed a bit.
- Improved combat between nearly ALL characters, and not just "Fox can combo best since he falls the fastest".
- Air dodge mechanic has a use beyond "wavedash", as you no longer are a sitting duck after you dodge.
- Perfect shielding/power shielding actually can be performed much more consistently and has more of a use, despite how it no longer reflects projectiles.
- Tether recoveries are easier to use and more useful.
- Many strong moves gain "super armor" frames so they can be used more often.

That's a lot of nice things. But it gets lost in a sea of "It's too slow", "Melee was better", and "Who thought tripping was a good idea". So many people are getting wrapped up and vocal about the flaws of the game to want to explore it, or re-learn it.

Bowser is still bad, DK and Gannon are worse. Heavies....still bad >_>
Zelda's ok, but she's not that great
Shiek is still good
Lack of L-canceling causes alot of moves that WEREN'T useless to be useless and characters with a lack of good usable attacks have no options but to continue sucking
Shield camping projectile spammers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE GAME(SOOO balanced)
Air dodge mechanic ruins any possibility of follow up on a combo
Perfect Shielding lends itself to the whole "Shield camp 24/7" thing
Tether recovery is broken. Since your not allowed to aim how you want its actually become basically useless. If someones on the ledge and you ONLY have a tether recovery your screwed. And since it doesn't just go straight any more you can't use it as a way to switch up your recovery(like in melee)
Super armor is good.

 

[batsman415]

If youre using tripping as a reason for liking Melee better than Brawl, than I can slightly see where youre coming from. But if you like Melee better because you can Wavedash............well then leave Brawl alone I guess.........

 

[batsman415]

Pink Reaper hasnt tried good old Charizard yet has he......

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Eh, but on the other hand, I could debate some of those points as being improved.

For instance, yeah, Ganondorf could combo his down aerial better with L-cancelling. But since everyone cancelled it, the move had no penality. It went from being a power hit to something else.

I really can't say much for the "projectile camping" spam strategy. I mean, yes, I'm sure it exists. But the whole "take a lead and run for 8 minutes" just never sat with me as a valid strategy. I mean, sure, you played to win. But you didn't fight for it. It's like gloating because all your victories in Soul Calibur are ring outs.

Bowser and DK being bad is fine. They're not WORST anymore, and I'm not asking for "OMG TOP TIER". Conversely, wasn't Ganondorf a high teir in melee? Shouldn't him getting a bit of a nerf be a good thing?

This is what I mean. Things change from Melee, and people cry to the heavens that it's awful.

 

[Funn_]

I came back to Smash Boards after going away for a year just to see what the users of this board were saying about this topic. Seems as though there are a lot, A LOT!, of people just screaming "BRAWL IS BETTER LMAO"

Well heres my take on it: Brawl is not as competitive. <---- Period.

Brawl does have a better character balance than melee though.

I have a few things wrong with it

1- LUCK. Luck is now a factor in brawl. Why do people take items off of Melee for a competitive match? For competition reasons of course. Items add a luck factor, such as spawning a bom-omb in front of your face or giving Super Mushrooms to one character and not the other. In Brawl you can take off the items, removing most of the luck based gameplay, but you cannot take off tripping. Tripping will constantly be in the game and can cost you the match at random times. With no option to take off Tripping, luck is constantly going to be a small factor in deciding the victor of the match, which i believe is unreasonable. I did not agree to play a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, i want to play Smash Bros.

2- THE REMOVAL OF ADVANCED TECHS- With most advanced techniques removed, it has been a hard transition for me. I have found a unreasonable reliance on Shield Grabbing. With no L-canceling or wavedashing or Shffling it seems that Shield Grab is an easy and powerful counter.

3- SPEED. The speed of the game has been lowered, IMO. My reflexes that I had worked non-stop to develop for melee, seems useless when now my friends are able to pull of the same move, because of the slower gameplay.

4. HEAVIES- IMO!- Heavies seem to not be as heavy in this game. while in Melee it was not uncommon to see a bowser with 150+ damage and still be truckin'. In brawl it seems that even lighter characters can stay alive around the same amount of time as Heavies, only around 30% difference.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Eh, but on the other hand, I could debate some of those points as being improved.

For instance, yeah, Ganondorf could combo his down aerial better with L-cancelling. But since everyone cancelled it, the move had no penality. It went from being a power hit to something else.

I really can't say much for the "projectile camping" spam strategy. I mean, yes, I'm sure it exists. But the whole "take a lead and run for 8 minutes" just never sat with me as a valid strategy. I mean, sure, you played to win. But you didn't fight for it. It's like gloating because all your victories in Soul Calibur are ring outs.

Bowser and DK being bad is fine. They're not WORST anymore, and I'm not asking for "OMG TOP TIER". Conversely, wasn't Ganondorf a high teir in melee? Shouldn't him getting a bit of a nerf be a good thing?

This is what I mean. Things change from Melee, and people cry to the heavens that it's awful.

I wasn't talking about Ganon's Dair, I was talking about his Fair. It used to be one of THE BEST approaches in the game, and now its pretty worthless. Also, you can't rely heavily on ONLY auto canceled Dairs as it limits alot of the range of the attack.

As for the camping thing, In a recent tourney, Azen(pit) vs M2K(Marth i think) Azen spent the entire match just shooting arrows and running. Time ran out and the stocks were even, but M2K had 50% more damage than Azen so Azen won.

Also, Bowser was one of the worst in melee, he's still one of the worst in Brawl.(this makes no sense, why would they not try to make him better?) DK was never the worst(although he was the least popular, still is) but he wasn't nearly the the best(or even above average) so why nerf him further? Ganon was bottom of mid tier, just missed low tier essentially, and if a new tier list came out he would probably switch places with Luigi and DK. And yes, a good character getting nerfed is fine, an ok character getting thrown down to bottom tier is sort of stupid.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

On the other hand, Melee's tier list was anything but sane.

 

[SavageKyle15]

Cmpettitive side

I dont think sakurai neccesarily took out the competitive side of the game but i think he made it alot slower paced. People are being to stubborn in comparing it to melee. I do miss wave-dash and l-cancel but now its foucused on positionng yourself and timing. No i do not think sakurai took out the competitive side of smash but i think its a totally different game.