DK a Samus counter?

[Endless Nightmares]

Even if DK up B's after the dtilt, what's he gonna hit? It's an aerial up B. Samus can still uair DK because she's under him at this point. And DJCPMC spam happens at a faster rate than DK can bair. If DK shields Samus' ftilt, she can still jab you before you bair I'm pretty sure. Or just WD back and avoid the bair.

bah, I need to play a good DK again. It's been a while...*looks at James Sparrow*

 

[MEXICAN]

Even if DK up B's after the dtilt, what's he gonna hit? It's an aerial up B. Samus can still uair DK because she's under him at this point. And DJCPMC spam happens at a faster rate than DK can bair. If DK shields Samus' ftilt, she can still jab you before you bair I'm pretty sure. Or just WD back and avoid the bair.

bah, I need to play a good DK again. It's been a while...*looks at James Sparrow*

With a proper di, dk's up b will save him. And trust me on the platform missile cancelling and the b air, its not gonna work on dk. All the samus's that i've played all try to use that, and they never have any success. Dk doesn't need to hit both missiles. He can easily avoid one and kick the other. And dk is faster than you think, and can get to samus pretty quickly when she's trying to spam missiles, and then she'll have dk's fat foot in her face. And when samus f tilts, if she keeps on doing a jab right after the f tilt, dk has a lot of options. He can roll away and get back to spamming b airs, dk can just cc the jab with a d smash (which works better than most people might believe), or just shield after the jab hits, and since the jab will turn dk around, facing samus, dk is set up for a shield grab if samus tries to continue. Or dk can jump away with a b air out of his shield, which (depending on how close samus is to dk) should be safe for dk. Its kinda hard to explain all of these situations, i'd have to just play you and kinda prove it to you, but obviously thats probably not happening anytime soon. lol

 

[Gea]

56, listen to Mexican, he's right >.>;

and lol Hylian. Nothing against JF but he isn't as good as Mexican or Pkm by a LONG stretch.

 

[Hylian]

With a proper di, dk's up b will save him. And trust me on the platform missile cancelling and the b air, its not gonna work on dk. All the samus's that i've played all try to use that, and they never have any success. Dk doesn't need to hit both missiles. He can easily avoid one and kick the other. And dk is faster than you think, and can get to samus pretty quickly when she's trying to spam missiles, and then she'll have dk's fat foot in her face. And when samus f tilts, if she keeps on doing a jab right after the f tilt, dk has a lot of options. He can roll away and get back to spamming b airs, dk can just cc the jab with a d smash (which works better than most people might believe), or just shield after the jab hits, and since the jab will turn dk around, facing samus, dk is set up for a shield grab if samus tries to continue. Or dk can jump away with a b air out of his shield, which (depending on how close samus is to dk) should be safe for dk. Its kinda hard to explain all of these situations, i'd have to just play you and kinda prove it to you, but obviously thats probably not happening anytime soon. lol

Who do you play that can DJCPMC well? Do they do 2 homing missles? 1 smash and 1 homing?

It's not that easy to get around if the samus is good...


Not saying you don't play good samus's, I just can't imagine a DK being able to get around my missle spam when falcons barely can >_>. The homing missle usually ruins my opponents attempts at just breaking through with attacks...

I just think that if Samus spaces well, DK would have a very hard time. I'm probably wrong...but I would love for it to be proved to me .

 

[3Years]

It's not that easy to get around if the samus is good...

Not saying you don't play good samus's, I just can't imagine a DK being able to get around my missle spam

i have 2 agree if the samus can djcpmc correctly the DK player would have a hard time 2 get arround all the missles not sayin its impossible but it would be hard 2 pull off due 2 DK's size if they used a homing and a smash missles its easier but if done with 2 homing missles its pretty difficult i wasnt able 2 try it on mexican cuz we played on FD and wen i played PKM at oc3 i wasnt sure wut 2 do because ive never played a good DK and he was ma first lol...

p.s MEXICAN & PKM *****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pkmvodka]

Who do you play that can DJCPMC well? Do they do 2 homing missles? 1 smash and 1 homing?

It's not that easy to get around if the samus is good...


Not saying you don't play good samus's, I just can't imagine a DK being able to get around my missle spam when falcons barely can >_>. The homing missle usually ruins my opponents attempts at just breaking through with attacks...

I just think that if Samus spaces well, DK would have a very hard time. I'm probably wrong...but I would love for it to be proved to me .

Thing is, dk is just as fast as samus, and if I stay in your dead zone, you won't have the time to spam them. It doesn't have anything to do with how good the samus is, because missiles are a bit laggy on start, and you have some decent lag at the end, while dk's back air is super quick and will eat through them. It's not hard to stay close to a samus.

EDIT

DK has more priority on approaches than falcon, the example isn't really that good. Just because falcon moves fast means he has good priority.

 

[AOB]

Alright, the acronyms are getting ridiculous. You're leaving ol' Grandpa Andy in the dust. What is DJCPMC? Double Jump Cool Power Missle Cancel?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

i'm guessing that C and P stand cancel and platform, respectively.

lol, since I'm not actually good at Samus I'm just going to back out and read from here on.

Seems like every board wants to be a counter of a character where they're actually at a disadvantage. But I can't lie, I'm guilty of it too.

G&W counters Ganon

 

[Hylian]

Alright, the acronyms are getting ridiculous. You're leaving ol' Grandpa Andy in the dust. What is DJCPMC? Double Jump Cool Power Missle Cancel?

Double Jump cancel Platform Missle Cancel.


If you DJCPM there is no lag whatsoever...It's like floatcanceling with peach...I don't know what lag you are talking about PKM .


Also, samus is a MUCH faster character then DK. She has virtually no lag, and can cover ground quicker then almost any character with platforms.


And I'm sorry but DK's bair can NOT come out fast enough to stop DJCPMC'ed missiles if they are done correctly. If samus just watchs out for DK's grab, and spaces well, then I don't see how DK has the advantage.

1. DK can not keep up with samus.
2. Dk has less priority then Samus.
3. I'm pretty sure Samus has more range then DK aside from his cargo punch. Ftilt can outrange marth >_>.
4. Samus has less lag and can move faster then DK.
5. Samus can combo can edgeguard DK very easily.


Those are my reasons. I'm not close minded though, so a good argument could convince me .

 

[pkmvodka]

Double Jump cancel Platform Missle Cancel.


If you DJCPM there is no lag whatsoever...It's like floatcanceling with peach...I don't know what lag you are talking about PKM .


Also, samus is a MUCH faster character then DK. She has virtually no lag, and can cover ground quicker then almost any character with platforms.


And I'm sorry but DK's bair can NOT come out fast enough to stop DJCPMC'ed missiles if they are done correctly. If samus just watchs out for DK's grab, and spaces well, then I don't see how DK has the advantage.

1. DK can not keep up with samus.
2. Dk has less priority then Samus.
3. I'm pretty sure Samus has more range then DK aside from his cargo punch. Ftilt can outrange marth >_>.
4. Samus has less lag and can move faster then DK.
5. Samus can combo can edgeguard DK very easily.


Those are my reasons. I'm not close minded though, so a good argument could convince me .

Oh so that's what the acronym stands for. But anyway, there is lag before shooting the missile, so if DK is close to the samus, samus won't just fire missiles at him, she'll get punished for it.

Overall, no, DK doesn't beat samus in term of priority, but DK's bair, up b, giant punch and ftilt will eat through what samus has, the range is incredible and the hitboxes all messed up.

DK also can outrange marth with ftilt, so not a valid argument.

DK wins in terms of combo, KO and edgeguard. Hands down. To edgeguard a DK, you need to knock him hard, and sadly, samus doesn't have the very strongs horizontal killers that falcon has for example. What are good combos on DK? I thought samus was not much of a comboer.

DK can kill samus with a grab, cargo up air, yay. Takes away a bit of samus's excellent recovery and survivability.

 

[abit_rusty]

I tried with DK. I really did. But it still felt like an uphill battle to me. I kept getting 2 stocked by my friend's recently chosen above average samus -.-

 

[MEXICAN]

Who do you play that can DJCPMC well? Do they do 2 homing missles? 1 smash and 1 homing?

It's not that easy to get around if the samus is good...


Not saying you don't play good samus's, I just can't imagine a DK being able to get around my missle spam when falcons barely can >_>. The homing missle usually ruins my opponents attempts at just breaking through with attacks...

I just think that if Samus spaces well, DK would have a very hard time. I'm probably wrong...but I would love for it to be proved to me .

are DarkMike, Aftermath, and...oh yes, lets not forget HUGS good enough? All three of them tried it on me, and its really easy to get around. I can either jump over them or b air them. Aftermath has a spammy samus and i think he might have hit me with like....one missile. And HugS did the djcpmc on me too, and i don't think i got hit by very many missiles either. Less than 3 if i remember correctly. Missiles will never be a problem for a good DK. If DK is getting stopped by samus's missiles, then the DK probably isn't all that good....(no offense to any DK player that applies to. <3)

 

[3Years]

i honestly think dk n samus are equal in a matchup...

dk's utilt on samus is just as good as marths utilt and his charged b *****, his edgegaurd on samus is really good, his bair ***** her missles and ***** period lol...

samus does have an advantage wen it comes down 2 platforms, samus can mess up dk's recovery pretty easily and her missles do slow down dk's gameplay yeah u can block em but u do have 2 do something 2 stop them which can be shielding bair spotdodge etc and it gives the samus player enough time 2 move in or wut not and the samus can shoot non charged b's forcing u 2 turn around like falcos lasers...

so imo DK n Samus both **** eachother just depends on the players and how well they now how 2 fight a dk w/ a samus and a samus w/ a dk lol

p.s mexican wen can we play again your dk is really fun 2 play

 

[MEXICAN]

i honestly think dk n samus are equal in a matchup...

dk's utilt on samus is just as good as marths utilt and his charged b *****, his edgegaurd on samus is really good, his bair ***** her missles and ***** period lol...

samus does have an advantage wen it comes down 2 platforms, samus can mess up dk's recovery pretty easily if the samus knows wut hes doing and her missles do slow down dk's gameplay...

so imo DK n Samus both **** eachother just depends on the players and how well they now how 2 fight a dk w/ a samus and a samus w/ a dk lol

its not that hard to get around samus's edgeguard. You gotta remember, DK's hands are invincible during his up b, so if the missiles hit his hands, its not gonna hurt him. And Dk doesn't even need to go that route, DK can go under or over the missiles. And its pretty easy to tech samus's u tilt edgeguard, so thats not a problem either. Overall, unless a samus can get me out far enough to the point that i can barely reach the ledge and she can just edgehog, i'm gonna survive. She's either gonna have to instant KO me, or knock me out far enough that i can't get on top of the stage

 

[3Years]

its not that hard to get around samus's edgeguard. You gotta remember, DK's hands are invincible during his up b, so if the missiles hit his hands, its not gonna hurt him. And Dk doesn't even need to go that route, DK can go under or over the missiles. And its pretty easy to tech samus's u tilt edgeguard, so thats not a problem either. Overall, unless a samus can get me out far enough to the point that i can barely reach the ledge and she can just edgehog, i'm gonna survive. She's either gonna have to instant KO me, or knock me out far enough that i can't get on top of the stage

true true i remember our match

**** your up b lol but i did get u out there a few times if u remember

 

[MEXICAN]

true true i remember our match

**** your up b lol but i did get u out there a few times if u remember

lol, i honestly don't remember

 

[3Years]

lol, i honestly don't remember

ohok well i took a couple stocks w/ a couple forward smashes lol...man so wen u comin down 2 socal again???

 

[Hylian]

Gea, how would you know how good JesusFreak is? Didn't you leave texas awhile ago? JF has gotten way better. He beat watty and Lunin at MGC....


I will try and get some matchs recorded. I never found DK that hard...but you guys are probably right. I know samus can do some nasty stuff to DK though...so hopefully I get to play one of you eventually.

I will just play the matchup with S.O.S and JesusFreak and see what I think. I can't come up with any more good reasons that DK doesn't do well against samus.

 

[MEXICAN]

ohok well i took a couple stocks w/ a couple forward smashes lol...man so wen u comin down 2 socal again???

Not any time soon. I'm probably not going to Socal while Melee is still going and i'm not playing Brawl, so us playing again isn't very likely unless you're coming up to Norcal with all of the other Socal smashers on the 15th

Gea, how would you know how good JesusFreak is? Didn't you leave texas awhile ago? JF has gotten way better. He beat watty and Lunin at MGC....


I will try and get some matchs recorded. I never found DK that hard...but you guys are probably right. I know samus can do some nasty stuff to DK though...so hopefully I get to play one of you eventually.

I will just play the matchup with S.O.S and JesusFreak and see what I think. I can't come up with any more good reasons that DK doesn't do well against samus.

lol, I 2 stocked Lunin on his choice of stage, in tournament. But its not about how good the DK is necessarily, its more about how good/experienced the dk is at fighting Samus. Beating a really good fox doesn't mean that you're good against samus

 

[Hylian]

Not any time soon. I'm probably not going to Socal while Melee is still going and i'm not playing Brawl, so us playing again isn't very likely unless you're coming up to Norcal with all of the other Socal smashers on the 15th



lol, I 2 stocked Lunin on his choice of stage, in tournament. But its not about how good the DK is necessarily, its more about how good/experienced the dk is at fighting Samus. Beating a really good fox doesn't mean that you're good against samus

Um...Watty is like...the 2nd best samus in america right now probably lol. I would think JF's pretty good at fighting samus.

 

[MEXICAN]

Um...Watty is like...the 2nd best samus in america right now probably lol. I would think JF's pretty good at fighting samus.

lol, oh, ok. I've never even heard of him. haha

 

[Hylian]

lol, oh, ok. I've never even heard of him. haha

I haven't played JF's DK too recently though..he plays other characters alot XD. Also, he plays me and reqy alot so he has a ton of samus experience...

So I will try and get some matchs recorded. You guys are probably right...I just want to experience the DK **** myself haha.

 

[3Years]

man ive been wanting 2 go 2 the norcal biweeklies but none of my crew wants 2 drive out there =*(

 

[MEXICAN]

man ive been wanting 2 go 2 the norcal biweeklies but none of my crew wants 2 drive out there =*(

Have you seen this thread? Maybe you could hitch a ride with someone, or take the bus if there's still room.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=125749

3. I'm pretty sure Samus has more range then DK aside from his cargo punch.

lol, i just barely noticed this. hahaha

 

[3Years]

Have you seen this thread? Maybe you could hitch a ride with someone, or take the bus if there's still room.

i live 2 n a half hrs from LA so i dont think i can...

 

[pkmvodka]

Um...Watty is like...the 2nd best samus in america right now probably lol. I would think JF's pretty good at fighting samus.

Wow, the samus that I friggin destroyed 3 stock 0% is the 2nd best in america? I'll include this in my résumé, because watty wasn't doing anything good at all against me, and i've beaten him in all my friendlies + crew battle.

 

[Bass.]

Mexican, why are you not going to play Brawl?

Vodka, he could just not have experience in fighting DK. Hugs said it himself. If you don't really know that match up, you're probably screwed. But don't get it wrong not defending the guy, nor do I know him. Just defending the point.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Mexican, why are you not going to play Brawl?

I was wondering that too...DK is almost exactly the same in Brawl as in Melee, he's the least-changed character according to the peeps who went to E for All.

Vodka, he could just not have experience in fighting DK. Hugs said it himself. If you don't really know that match up, you're probably screwed. But don't get it wrong not defending the guy, nor do I know him. Just defending the point.

Yeah I'm not taking sides either, but if someone doesn't know the matchup, nine times out of ten they're going to get wrecked. When I play against people for the first time with G&W, I usually 2 or 3-stock them. But after a while they finally figure it out and gets more even (or in their favor lol) as time goes on.

 

[MEXICAN]

Mexican, why are you not going to play Brawl?

Vodka, he could just not have experience in fighting DK. Hugs said it himself. If you don't really know that match up, you're probably screwed. But don't get it wrong not defending the guy, nor do I know him. Just defending the point.

lol, I'm just not really gonna have time for Brawl. I go to school full time and i work and i have a ton of other obligations, and Brawl just doesn't look that interesting to me. I'm pretty much steering away from videogames in general though, so its not just Brawl. Haha, i was supposed to be retired from Melee a long time ago, but i wanted to finish it out with SCC, but then i also wanna go to the NUB, so i guess that'll finish it out for me unless another big tournament comes close by or someone really interesting comes around

 

[StoleUrCar]

i honestly think dk n samus are equal in a matchup...

dk's utilt on samus is just as good as marths utilt and his charged b *****, his edgegaurd on samus is really good, his bair ***** her missles and ***** period lol...

Wait, what's so special about DK's edgeguard vs samus? Is it the down tilt? A below the ledge bair?

 

[pkmvodka]

No, it's just spamming up b from the ledge while being invinsible and ****** through samus up b / grapple.

EDIT

I understand that watty didn't have much experience against DK, exactly why I thought it was funny to even consider him as being top 2 samus in the nation.

Hugs didn't have much experience with fighting monkeys, but he did so much better, it's not even funny.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Hugs is just that much better.

It's like...

Hugs

[HUGE ****ING GAP]

Other Samus players

 

[3Years]

No, it's just spamming up b from the ledge while being invinsible and ****** through samus up b / grapple.

pkm just explained why dk's edgegaurd is good...

 

[MEXICAN]

Up b ***** samus. And Giant punch when samus tries to get up from the ledge if she manages to reach it

 

[AIDS]

lol as i samus main, i feel very confident against DK lol pretty easy fight on samus's end, there are a phew advantages but i think samus has it rapped up!

 

[pkmvodka]

I doubt you have played any good DK sir.

 

[MEXICAN]

I doubt you have played any good DK sir.

lol, its funny how a lot of people who have never played a good dk think that they can **** all dk's, and try to talk as if they know the matchup when they have little to no GOOD dk experience

 

[Endless Nightmares]

No offense to DK players, but almost NO ONE has played a good DK. That's where the problem lies. If someone goes against a good DK (or pretty much any good low tier), they're usually going to get beaten until they figure out the matchup.

I mean, I can beat good Ganons with G&W, but that doesn't make him a counter lol. I just like playing against Ganon @_@

Is DK a Fox counter too because you beat Silent Wolf? LOLL Is Young Link a Ganon counter because Chu beat Bushman with Ylink? Is G&W a Marth counter because Dire beat Husband? etc, etc

 

[Gea]

They aren't saying that DK is a Fox counter or anything like that. He is a great anti-Samus character, and it really isn't that hard to believe.

Edit: Don't retire Mexican :< DK plays really the same in Brawl. Nooooo. You're too good to quit. Don't force me to take up the monkey.

 

[MEXICAN]

No offense to DK players, but almost NO ONE has played a good DK. That's where the problem lies. If someone goes against a good DK (or pretty much any good low tier), they're usually going to get beaten until they figure out the matchup.

I mean, I can beat good Ganons with G&W, but that doesn't make him a counter lol. I just like playing against Ganon @_@

Is DK a Fox counter too because you beat Silent Wolf? LOLL Is Young Link a Ganon counter because Chu beat Bushman with Ylink? Is G&W a Marth counter because Dire beat Husband? etc, etc

I'm not talking about one match, i'm talking about every match i've played. I've never lost to a samus besides DarkMikes, but i usually even 2 stock him, and he's had a ton of DK experience, and he is good, don't mistake that. Me beating SW does not make DK a fox counter by the least bit. Fox is an extremely hard fight for DK. Your examples are one time examples. And this thread was made to look at what makes dk a hard match for samus, by real examples of situations, not just by who's beaten who. In most situations, dk has the upper hand...


Edit*

They aren't saying that DK is a Fox counter or anything like that. He is a great anti-Samus character, and it really isn't that hard to believe.

Edit: Don't retire Mexican :< DK plays really the same in Brawl. Nooooo. You're too good to quit. Don't force me to take up the monkey.

Monkey is all yours for brawl. lol. And besides, there are like...2 or 3 other people who wanted the name "MEXICAN", but couldn't have it since i got it, lol, once brawl comes out, they can have the name "MEXICAN". lol, so you won't neccessarily have me anymore, but you'll have someone named "MEXICAN"