DK: Aiding Arenas and Counter Stages, Sticky Dammit!

[Kyle_Wattula]

Alright Kong soldiers-

I don't believe we need to address EVERY stages but I feel it's important to address what Stages DK is better and and why and which stages are generally bad for most opponents and why.

All Ceiling information found here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

Infinites & Cheap KO's List​

Stages with walls that allow infinite Dtilt/Cargo Utoss technique include:

-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Shadow Moses Island
-Corneria
-Onett
-Newpork
-Pictochat
-The Summit
-Hyrule Temple
-Rainbow Cruise- WTF!BBQPIE
-Delfino Plaze
-Pirate Ship
-Green Greens






Stages with undercuts which allow Stage spiking via Cargo Ftoss/Dtoss technique include:

-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Corneria
-Newpork
-Final Destination
-Lylat Cruise
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Spear Pillar
-Castle Siege 1
-Castle Siege 3
-Luigi's Mansion
-Bridge of Eldrin *use Cargo Ftoss






Stages with undercuts which allow Stage spiking via opponent vulnerable on ledge, DK Dsmash include:

-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Newpork
-Final Destination
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Spear Pillar
-Castle Siege 1
-Castle Siege 3
-Luigi's Mansion



Stages which allows Water spike technique include:

-Pirate Ship
-Delfino Plaza
-The Summit

when opponent is >40%cargo throw, walk off the stage into the water area, where both of you start floating and struggling to get back up. Since DK hits the water first, he is always first to be able to jump out of the water while the opponent is still struggling. The instant you are able to jump, you do a dair and spike them into the waters.





Stages which allows DK Double Suicide technique include:

-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Corneria
-Newpork
-Pictochat
-The Summit
-Hyrule Temple
-Delfino Plaze
-Pirate Ship
-Green Greens
-Final Destination
-Lylat Cruise
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Spear Pillar
-Castle Siege 1
-Castle Siege 3
-Bridge of Eldin
-Yoshi's Island
-Skyworld
-WarioWare
-Battleship Halbred
-Norfair
-Frigate Orpheon
-Distant Planet
-Port Town Aero Dive
-Green Hill Zone
-Luigi's Mansion
-Yoshi's Story
-Brinstar
-Rainbow Ride

This works near any Ledge, if you are a stock up, and your opponent is at high%, just grapple, Cargo, walk off stage, as you are falling, do Cargo Dtoss. The idea is to descend so low that both players will not come back.

DK's advantage​

Jungle Japes- Ceiling: 100/97/93
+Relatively easy to run away and stock a Donkey Punch.
+Numerous ledges make recovery of upB AMAZING.
+HUGE ceiling
+DK Double Suicide available

Battlefield- Ceiling: 82/75/68
+Numerous ledges make recovery of upB AMAZING.
+Stage Spike available
+When they are above you on a platform, you win. lol
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spiike
+DK Double Suicide available

Spear Pillar- Ceiling: 82
+Two levels of recovery
+High ceiling
+SA frames > Light beams.
+In cave, Utilt... ALOT
+DK Double Suicide available

Shadow Moses Island- Ceiling: 88/80/70
+Wall hits combo to vertical kills, (Uair)
+Wall infinites possiable
+Walk off stage means Cargo toss = Death.
-Don't take D3 here!

Smashville- Ceiling: 82/74
+Stage pike available
+Take zoning & fast characters here as the small stage negates some zoning.
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spike
+DK Double Suicide available

Lylat Cruise- Ceiling: 82/74
+Stage Spike available
+When they are above you on a platform, you win. lol
+Bebeled edge allows most upB's to land on ground and have instant recovery
-Tilting stage may f-up your recovery

Castle Siege- Ceiling: 82-88-81
1
+Different levels allow better recovery
+Different levels allow better approaches
+Stage Spike available
+DK Double Suicide available
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spiike
+Bebeled edge allows most upB's to land on ground and have instant recovery
2
+Statues help against being zoned,
+Walk off kills are easy
+Different levels allow better approaches
3
+Small stage means less zoning
+Stage Spike available
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spike
+DK Double Suicide available
-Tilting stage may f-up your recovery
MORPH
+Walk off kills are easy
-Can be trapped underneath, especially 3-1 transition

Corneria- Ceiling: 74/70/57
+Camp the wall for infinites
+Low ceiling kills lightweights easier
+Stage spike available
+DK Double Suicide available
+Take cover from projectiles
+Always take Pit here

Onett- Ceilling: 88
+Platforms give DK better movement
+4 walls to do infinites
+SA the Cars, remember Cargo SA too.
+Walk offs are easy kills, but the house prevents cheaper KO's.
+Counters IC's

Norfair- Ceiling: 82/74/67
+Lava makes DK live forever
+Orgasmic ledges
+DK Double Suicide available
+While hiding in capsule do downB infinite

Delfino- Ceiling: 82
+Water spike set-up...sometimes
+Walls for infinites... sometimes
+Can ascend through floor with upB awesome recovery
+Footstool/spike/sideB bury people as the platform rises and they get stuck to the ground
+DK Double Suicide available

Battleship Halbred- Ceiling: 77/75/68-73/65
+ DK can Fsmash people on ledge in this stage, stand on incline
+Cargo SA frames against the laser
+Stage Spike available at the end
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spike
+DK Double Suicide available
+Footstool/spike/sideB bury people as the platform rises and they get stuck to the ground
+Can ascend through floor with upB awesome recovery
- Overall Minimal options for recovery = Death

Pirate Ship- Ceiling: 85
+Water Spike Available... sometimes
+Wall infinite available... sometimes
+While "Descending" Uair, Uair combo's.... sometimes
+Cargo SA against the Canon Bombs.... sometimes

Summit- Ceiling: 94 (Bottom) 71 (Top)
+Cargo, Walk into water, Escape and let fishy eat your opponent as you barely escape death.
+Water Spike available
+Wall Infinite available
+While "Descending" Uair, Uair combo's.
+DK Double Suicide available without water

DK's disadvantage​

Yoshi's Island- Ceiling: 82/75
+Bebeled edge allows most upB's to land on ground and have instane recovery
+You can footstool, spike, or bury an opponent on the (side) ghost platforms as they go down
+DK Double Suicide available
-No stage spike
-No walls
-That one platform is right in the way, and I don't feel it helps his mobility. If you jump you HAVE to land on that platform and your opponent is definitely ready to anti-air you.
-Hard to gimp when the side pillars arise so often


Final Destination- Ceiling: 82
+Stage spiking available
+Opponent vulnerable on ledge = Dsmash stage spike
+DK Double Suicide available
-So big DK gets zoned
-1 ledge to recover is rough


Pictochat- Ceiling: 84
+Cargo, Walk onto Spring, Donkey Punch
+Often you get trapped in an object allowing a free DK Punch Storage.
+Wall infinite available... sometimes
+DK Double Suicide available... sometimes
-No stage spike
-So big DK gets zoned
-1 ledge to recover is rough


Bridge of Eldin- Ceiling: 83
+Stage Spike available...sometimes use Cargo Ftoss
+DK Double Suicide available...sometimes
-You get zoned
-You get split up
-Don't take D3 here

 

[Ripple]

put shadow moses island up for major advantage. dk's uair will kill around 120% from the bottem and at about 90-100% at the top. dk is God here. uptilt to uair is the best combo ever

throw them against a wall and do whatever air move you want

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Ripple, Do you know about Wall Teching? by holding down a shield as you hit a wall you don't bounce but fully recover, making all those combo's pointless. So basically this Stage only limits DK potential to HOrizontal out which, might I add is most of his outers as Uair, Usmash & Dsmash are his only Vertical killing blows.

 

[Ripple]

Ripple, Do you know about Wall Teching? by holding down a shield as you hit a wall you don't bounce but fully recover, making all those combo's pointless. So basically this Stage only limits DK potential to Horizontal out which, might I add is most of his outers as Uair, Usmash & Dsmash are his only Vertical killing blows.

yes I do but I really think they won't expect it since they will think you'll throw them up. trust me it is a very good dk stage

also PS2 is a very good stage when it turns into a wind anti-grav stage. uair to uair works and they can't move from it making it a very good for his uair kill

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Uair, Uair wind combo. 0.o NICE

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

After playing on Mario Kart for a while, I feel it's a great stage for Dk, Anyone else have an opinion?

 

[t3hcoke]

Mario Kart is like a lot of the stages in the game; horizontal kill space is easy to get next to
Fun to b-throw/f-smash/DK punch for KO at lower percentages (0%), not fun to get comboed by others *cough (Pit/Marth) out of the stage
Besides that, I really don't see how it's any more advantageous for DK against certain characters that would have been just as easily stage-spiked or killed using more conventional methods.

 

[Nokonoko]

Well, in that case, is it worth going over stages that are advantageous or hindering for each opponent? : /

 

[TierWhore]

I really like castle siege for DK because the first part he can kill really easily and during the transformaions he can kill with his cargo and bthrow because of the run of edges. For the castle part he can camp well against most characters and once again kill quickly. For the last part it's alright for him, though not great. I feel like this one is mainly just my personal preference.

Japes: I agree with this one, DK doesn't die on this stage until high percents, and his ability to camp with the ftilt and bair is really accented here.

Corneria: He kills on the edge very easily, especially against characters like metaknight, light and floaty ones. This is one of my primary counterpicks because i can camp on the lower level with upairs and backairs and kill upwards extremely well.

Lylat Cruise: I like the ledges to help recovery, i feel DK just generally can move around the stage and kill very easily. When the opponents are on the upper platforms it can normally spell death.

Yoshi's island: Maybe it's not that great for him, but his upb will recover well almost all the time, he can kill well, and it's a fun stage! I wouldn't counterpick here, but i would be happy if i got it.

 

[paralasalud]

norfair.

10char

 

[Ripple]

Kyle, try playing against IC's on Onett I guarantee this becomes at least an even match-up. don't forget about d-tilt infinite

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Onett > IC's.
THX for this.
I also believe that when this is relatively finished, we should just integrate this info into Match-up thread but that's talk for later times ya know.

 

[pirkid]

Norfair has tons of edges, I love it. He can Spin to whatever edge he wants, and if there is edgehog he can change ledges very easily. Also, due to Norfair lava, fall KOs are hard to come by on Norfair, making recovery even better for DK, as in the chance he is launched he will be launched up or to the side, perfect for a Spinning Kong.

 

[AnderFREAK]

"Jungle Japes-
-Relatively easy to run away and stock a Donkey Punch.
-Numerous ledges make recovery of upB AMAZING."


lol, dawnkey pawnch... =)

 

[Gkryptonite]

This is coming from Melee but applies here too, GREEN GREENS
He can camp behind the blocks and charge the punch, and if they don't have pk thunders/grenades/nikitas than you're good to go. Also I pretty much up for any stage with platforms, as DK's level of control because of his range and quickness to react when people are above him give him a plus.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I desperately need to update this 1st post and shall pretty soon. =)

I miss the Kirby stage with that tree blowing. =(

 

[itsthebigfoot]

should we talk about tourney legal stages only or any and all stages.
a few of my favorite stages for dk are lylat cruise, castle siege and delfino because its easy to do the landing trick on up for all of those levels. also, japes is fun to get around projectiles

 

[itsthebigfoot]

i gotta see the programmar for this site, my comp either wont let me post or it double posts

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

This weekend guys, I promise.

 

[Tom]

Kyle,

When you update this, I think you should post two lists, one of the stages that DK can Cargo Stagespike people with, and another that DK can Wall "infinite" combo on. The first list would consist of Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadiums, Smashville, Corneria, and Rainbow Cruise. The second list would consist of, well, you've posted that list before. =)

I would also like to recommend the following stages to the aiding and possibly counterpicking list,

Corneria: While this stage is on the verge of being Banned instead of Counterpick by a large number of tournament organizers, it should still be discussed. This stage has low ceilings (DK ***** vertically, we know this), a wall for DK to wall-combo opponents, a two-tiered level to avoid ranged-attack campers, and two areas for DK to throw his opponent under the stage and kill them.

Lylat Cruise: Fairly low ceiling, and the ledges greatly accentuate DK's horizontal recovery. The platforms are actually close to the main stage and they are fairly short, so DK can trap an opponent on them, watch their roll/get-up, and tech chase with an upsmash to kill. DK can also stage-spike opponents on this stage.

And dont stress about keeping up to date editing everything. =)

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

I was playing on spear pillar and SA framed the ENTIRE light beam. it was hotness.
I used upB, although I could have used Cargo SA frames to KO my opponent, oh well, next time.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

any stage with a wall (delfino, ps1, and corneria are the legal ones) give dk a huge adavntage, because dk can move them into place for the wall infinites

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Yeeaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.




































Updated 1st post


































looks nice.































<3
































Kyle~

 

[itsthebigfoot]

shouldn't yoshi's island be an advantage stage? the platform is useful for setting up your upsmash, and the stage allows you to use upb without having to fear landing wrong

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Yes the stage allows the air to ground instant recovery upB trick but look at it this way.

-No stage spike
-No walls
-That one platform is right in the way, and I don't feel it helps his mobility. If you jump you HAVE to land on that platform and your opponent is definitely ready to anti-air you.
-Hard to gimp when the side pillars arise so often
-High ceiling and extra side pillars make killing rather difficult.

The bad definitely out weighs the good in this one.

 

[Brahma]

On Halberd and Delfino DK can ledgedrop then come up through the stage with ^B and autocancel it.

Halberd is my favorite DK stage.

 

[Ripple]

test out brinstar Kyle, I love taking spacies here and its an all around DK stave I think now more than ever

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Updates some, mostly Delfino. I need more exp on brindtar,

 

[Brahma]

How can you stage spike on Delfino?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

stage spiking isn't really possible on delfino (not sure though) but water spiking is, which kills quicker

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Your right about no stage spike on delfino, the one ledge i thought you can can be jumped through... oh well water spikes are hot though. =)

 

[Brahma]

You can also footstool/spike/>B bury people as the platform rises and they get stuck to the ground. Technically I guess this would be a stage "spike".


Also, I'm really starting to like Luigi's Mansion as a counterpick vs. projectile campers and in general. The pillars give him protection from spamming and allow him to get some punch charges in. In the lower hallways opponents can't come from above so angled Ftilt outranges most options. DownB does as well, and can bounce them off the ceiling for a relaunch unless they tech, and even if they do tech sometimes the range still catches them. If you have a punch stored it is scary to try and approach him in sucj cramped quarters. With his big hitbox it's hard to get him out of the hall for a KO since he can usually tech off the ceiling.

On the top hallway DK can Uair through the floor to hit people, which is very quick. Since they can't drop through unless at the middle or sides you can follow them around and Uair without much retaliation.

He can also drop pillars and level the building whenever he feels like it with DownB or a tilt and Smash. Useful for resetting the stage if someone drops a side to projectile camp you.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

luigis mansion and castle siege are great for projectile spammers, though luigis mansion might get banned for the huge advantage that zelda has there, and the cave of life thing people get from teching the ceiling, but other than that its great

 

[Brahma]

What does Zelda have? Din's fire spam?

Another great stage I've been messing with is Distant Planet. DK can mess around all day from the edges. You can jump up from the lower half and attack the top platform and then use UpB to make it to the right edge, or move back to the left edge. Hitting the left slope auto cancels your UpB, so it makes it real easy to control the lower section. You can also get the pellet things, which are weak, but are nice to pressure with DK's glide toss.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Way to be on this guys. THX, it makes me happy to see so much contributions and effort.

I've only got 2 new things, additionally, I will have to update the post now..well..sometime.


Pictochat-
Cargo, Walk onto Spring, Donkey Punch

Summit-
Cargo, Walk into water, Escape and let fishy eat your opponent as you barely escape death. EPIC

Small update to first post
The summit is a water spike stage
Pirate Ship is a Wall Infinite stage

 

[Brahma]

How is Pirate Ship a wall infinite stage? Against the catapault thing? Technically it's not infinite, because it ends as soon as the catapualt goes back down. Does the catapault launch them out of Dtilt?

 

[Ripple]

How is Pirate Ship a wall infinite stage? Against the catapault thing? Technically it's not infinite, because it ends as soon as the catapualt goes back down. Does the catapault launch them out of Dtilt?

when the ship crashes against the rock

 

[Brahma]

Oh, right. Duh.

 

[Kyle_Wattula]

Updated Header.

Pictochat is like FD where you trade Stage spiking for Random infinites and environmental Damages.

 

[Brahma]

Also, I forgot the best part about Distant Planet. Cargo Dthrow into the bug's mouth.