DK Training Regimen

[CaLibUr_1337]

What does GFSC stand for?

 

[waldorf2007]

What does GFSC stand for?

Stands for Grounded Footstool Combo.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Is that the one where you side B after the footstool?

 

[waldorf2007]

Is that the one where you side B after the footstool?

yeah, you footstool them while on the ground and immediately (prob buffer) a headbutt. then....you go ape****

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Yea now I remember haha. It's so hard to find safe opportunities though Guess that's why you don't see it often

 

[waldorf2007]

It's like a frame perfect punish IMO, you gotta have it in the VERY front of your head to even consider it. I rarely get it but if I'm playing a character with punishable stuff I can have safe attempts at it a couple times a game. For example if a snake is falling with nair and fastfalls or screws up a lagless landing then you can attempt it.
Even easier to try is he snake tries to shield pressure you with a short hop dair. they'd think you punish with grab at best but GFSC is a huge mind****.
Also punishing metaknight's glide attack with powershield to GFSC works, the original video on GFSC's is focused on that.

 

[Ruinn]

I can't seem to gfsc, I always do it to the left/right of computer. tips?

 

[waldorf2007]

I don't really know what to tell ya, maybe someone has a sort of button combination for it. I tend to , as I footstool, go left and then right headbutt but if I ever had a problem it was getting the headbutt out fast enough.
might be like some ATs where the only solution is to do it over and over until you get it right and just try to memorize what you did there.

 

[aqua421]

was messing around in training mode and i found out that dk can actually do the invincible UpB in a lot of places on Delfino. Some weren't even jumping off of a ledge some were in the middle of the stage. He can do it going up the yellow hump on the big yellow star tower thing. I think he can do it on the transformation with no platforms and the walkoffs on both sides that dips down in the middle; I've only been able to do it once here however.

 

[Neon!]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but down-tilt to fully charged punch needs to be used more. If d-tilt trips you just landed a 36% combo, if not then you degraded their shield by about half (if their shield was in perfect condition)

 

[DtJ S2n]

What % is that at? I'm still a fan of going for d-tilt d-tilt down-b which doesn't use your giant punch and does somewhere in the higher 20s.

 

[GOofyGV]

well 1 fully chaerged punch allready deals 28% damage.

 

[waldorf2007]

I don't know, it seems like I want to be killing people with punch and it stales surprisingly badly. I'd prefer to d tilt to fsmash or ground pound, or like sold2 said, two dtilts and a possible ground pound (less likely to trip and get hit).
Though if you're confident you won't be getting any 90% early kills with punch then go for it I suppose, in that situation you probably need all the damage you can get.

 

[GOofyGV]

Well I like to use 2 or 3 pummels evry grab I can take so yeah if I just grab before I try to hit the final punsh that doesn't have to be a big problem

also I saw A vid Neon where you used a pivot upB
I use that pretty much in matches and it is pretty good
Also you can do that while going from the edge so basicly you go from the edge with an Pivot upb instead of a normal one it's not much better than a normal one but It looks sexy =)

 

[Neon!]

I usually go for dtilt-punch between 0-5%, i usually kill with dsmash anyway. Up-b is great at refreshing our moves also.

 

[allens]

was messing around in training mode and i found out that dk can actually do the invincible UpB in a lot of places on Delfino. Some weren't even jumping off of a ledge some were in the middle of the stage. He can do it going up the yellow hump on the big yellow star tower thing. I think he can do it on the transformation with no platforms and the walkoffs on both sides that dips down in the middle; I've only been able to do it once here however.

you mean like the yoshi's island one?

how is this done? please share as it sounds VERY useful.

 

[DtJ S2n]

well 1 fully chaerged punch allready deals 28% damage.

It does and it's so good. I actually do use giant punch to do damage and it is really good for that, it's just that in this situation I don't wanna throw my charge.

you mean like the yoshi's island one?

how is this done? please share as it sounds VERY useful.

You can up-b into any significant slope and get the invincibility like this, you just need to be moving at the slope in the air and up-b into it and get the timing of it. The timing is a bit different than coming off the edge, so try it out sometime. There's a lot of weird spots you can do it. The yellow hump on delfino is a great place to start trying it out.

 

[GOofyGV]

maybe a bit off-topic but I actualy found out I don't know a lot of AT's with dk =(
I would like if I could find dk's at's somwhere.

 

[DtJ S2n]

DK doesn't have many AT's specific to him. GFSC, the two invincible up-b glitches, super armor up-b, lagless up-bs, up-b (and b-reversed side-b) brake, and most importantly being able to cancel your charging without airdodging and looking dumb. We can also ISJR like Bowser claw hopping but it's really difficult and impractical.

Most of DK's ATs are just up-b glitches and being able to control his up-b well.

 

[GOofyGV]

ah ok =)
ty for help^_^

 

[aqua421]

I've been looking for more spots to do the invincible up b and I've found you can do it in various spots on pretty much all the transformations on ps1 and ps2. The only transformations you can't do it on are the neutral and ice transformation on ps2.

On the electric and wind parts of ps2 you can do the invincible up by jumping up from the ledge the same way you do it on yoshis, the timing is just a little different.

There are also quite a few spots you can do it on rainbow cruise.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I've been looking for more spots to do the invincible up b and I've found you can do it in various spots on pretty much all the transformations on ps1 and ps2. The only transformations you can't do it on are the neutral and ice transformation on ps2.

On the electric and wind parts of ps2 you can do the invincible up by jumping up from the ledge the same way you do it on yoshis, the timing is just a little different.

There are also quite a few spots you can do it on rainbow cruise.

You should be able to do it on the platforms of the Ice form. Not that that's very useful. I didn't know about the Wind part, that's actually really neat. I really can't advocate doing it on the electric part unless you think it's cool that it goes back to the edge lmao.

On RC you can do it on the boat's right side along with the various slanted platforms. Another really funny one though is you can do it while the screen is falling down, because when you use your up-b, the ground will fly up into you. Not easy to time or very practical.

I really like being able to lagless DK's up-b on janky stages, as well as invincible it. It turns stages into almost playgrounds. Yoshi's is so fun because you just up-b around everywhere.

 

[aqua421]

I think its neat how on the grass part of ps1 you can get the invincible up b from the 2 little bumps in the ground on the right side. i've also been able to do it on brinstar. These may not be in the most useful spots but the way i see it the more you know the better.

 

[crifer]

To Will´s 4):
What I found today in training mode:
I always wondered how Mr.R and Leon are able to do a fsmash out of the dash...
and we can do it, too.
A combination of pivot sliding and stutter stepping.
It´s pretty amazing to retreat and do a fsmash or run towards someone and out of nowhere charge fsmash to force, f.e. a spot dodge.

 

[waldorf2007]

A question for DKs about snake
The snake I play against most uses dair to shield pressure me constantly. SH dair on my shield is devastating and if I get hit I take 25%. in the air most characters can DI out and many characters can DI out on the ground, by going up.
But I just can't seem to get out with DK. Is it possible to SDI out of snake's dair on the ground? If he does it to me near the edge it pushes me off the edge and STILL connects, and it's a crazy punish for my tilts and other moves.

 

[Dexident]

Can someone explain to me braking with Up-b? I tried it in game and it was not doing me justice.

I'm a GW main, so bucket brake is my thang. I want to learn what this DK up-b brake is all about since he's my second favorite.

 

[waldorf2007]

you bair or jump bair while DIing (or another move but bair is best for DK's momentum cancel I think) and then up B and it brakes...It's a instant momentum cancel so it's not too different from the others. The point is when you use it, you have to know when you're going to die. I watch videos of, for example, will's godly DI and think "oh he's dead, momentum cancel" and he manages to survive without it. You might use it more if your normal DI is not as good.
Just wait for the moment when you were nowhere close to dying, use it, and fall to your death as you get punished hard, knowing that you totally didn't need to do it. it's crushing and salty as ****.

Also, just for your information, someone posted a while back, maybe even with a video, that DK's side b is good for momentum cancelling, because not only does it stop you, but it lifts you up a little bit while being sent back. so there's that. I've never tried it, probably never will.

If you're going to learn the ins and outs (not that many) of up Bing though, make sure you know "tricks" in your DI as you fall to minimize the punish you get from the opponent. sometimes DIing straight into the middle is good if you know your opponent doesn't have a good upward hit, for example. Or DIing one way then the other so the best they can get is a grab. stuff like that.

 

[Dexident]

Okay, cool. So to properly get the momentum canceling effect you need to b-air as fast as possible. But then if you start your up-b that means you're just going to get punished either way you look at it when you land, unless they are a total scrub.

So in summary it is basically only essential if you would otherwise never be able to survive the hit? That would mean you're probably in the 160% range or so?

 

[waldorf2007]

most likely.
but don't count out falling mindgames, people don't often expect DK to have the DI that he has, so when you change directions to land on the edge, sometimes you'll get a run attack or a grab as a punish, which is just fine. But if they have the right character and know what they're doing, they'll either jump up to hit you for the kill, or use a wide range move once it's too late for you to change direction to avoid it.
momentum cancelling is really important in doubles though, you can live a LOT longer. When I play with Stingers, I'll get hit and momentume cancel and yell out wall, so he'll provide a wall or even jump up and laser me so I can recover in a safer way. you have much less chance of getting fatally punished in doubles if you're playing intelligently.

 

[DtJ S2n]

A ton of people don't know how to react to a falling DK, and often you can get off entirely free. Or vs a lot of characters, if you land on a platform their punishes won't kill until forever, like vs Falco. One other thing is if you plan on getting hit, you can get hit with your very best DI and you can also choose which direction you're going to get hit, like forcing them to hit you with a d-smash all the way across the stage.

A tip to anyone trying to figure out how to deal with DK after a bucket brake. Don't wait for him to come down, intercept him as high as you can. And if you're Falco don't try to freaking u-air, the second hit never works.

Also Peach (ROB/Diddy less so) players LOVE throwing items straight up to hit you out of your helpless for some reason.

 

[waldorf2007]

oooo yeah I second that, aim for flying items. I have a field day vs. item characters because they're still in edgeguarding mode and throw an item up. it hurts their....morale to have the perfect kill taken away. And like when characters go for multi hit kills and you have your best DI ready to survive it, that's a momentum killer. the strategy should change vs. each character, and It's kind of intuitive. I guess we could write up a list of best strategies IE is there a platform to land on/ how to DI the ideal punish, but I don't think it's worth the effort.

 

[Neon!]

A ton of people don't know how to react to a falling DK, and often you can get off entirely free. Or vs a lot of characters, if you land on a platform their punishes won't kill until forever, like vs Falco. One other thing is if you plan on getting hit, you can get hit with your very best DI and you can also choose which direction you're going to get hit, like forcing them to hit you with a d-smash all the way across the stage.

A tip to anyone trying to figure out how to deal with DK after a bucket brake. Don't wait for him to come down, intercept him as high as you can. And if you're Falco don't try to freaking u-air, the second hit never works.

Also Peach (ROB/Diddy less so) players LOVE throwing items straight up to hit you out of your helpless for some reason.

That part is so true lol thats happened to me countless times. Outside of up-b Braking I'm going to start trying the side-b reversal brake, not as effective at stopping momentum but much much safer.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'd be afraid of messing up the side-b reversal to even start trying it. Messing up and dying like 20% earlier than you should've is really unappealing to me .

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'd be afraid of messing up the side-b reversal to even start trying it. Messing up and dying like 20% earlier than you should've is really unappealing to me .

Worst case scenario is you do an Up B in Mid air to stop all momentum.

Oh and, Neon.

How are you able to use D-Tilt so well ?

When I played you, the pressure I got from it as my Falco was amazing, are there any particular situations I should use it in ?
Right now I just space it at the edge like I do with Marth's D-Tilt.

 

[Neon!]

Worst case scenario is you do an Up B in Mid air to stop all momentum.

Oh and, Neon.

How are you able to use D-Tilt so well ?

When I played you, the pressure I got from it as my Falco was amazing, are there any particular situations I should use it in ?
Right now I just space it at the edge like I do with Marth's D-Tilt.

My philosophy is basically this: And this is something that I live by, and I always have and I always will. Dont ever for any reason do anything to anyone for any reason ever, no matter what. No matter where or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

 

[Ruinn]

crifer explain that again 0.0

also yeah i was just about to post about using other moves besides down b as dtilt followups. at low percents, just about anything works. dsmash, fsmash, side b, down b, i feel we should start mixing it up a bit. who knows

 

[crifer]

crifer explain that again 0.0

We can fsmash out of a dash.
I realized I did it too complicated.
You all know stutter stepping right? It´s if you input a dash and immediately do a fsmash (you can do the smash in direction or opposite direction of your dash). Some characters like mario gain extra range from it.
Now we combine foxtrotting with stutter stepping. We inpu a dash and as soon as possible input a stutter step fsmash.

->, -> fsmash (to left or right)

by this we can f.e. retreat to the right and do a fsmash out of the dash to the left.
Since our fsmash has amazing range it´s a really good suprising move and also can be charged!

[ At first I complicated this by doing a dash and immediately a dash dance to fsmash, which works too, but is unnecassary
->, ->, <- fsmash ]

We also can do a jab out of the dash animation by using the dash dance.
->, ->, <- (let the analog stick go to neutral) and input A

This is much more difficult but looks really amazing, because you dash away and immedietaly do a jab in the opposite direction of your dash.

 

[waldorf2007]

isn't this like, a fundamental tech? I've done this for years -_-. it also looks really flashy for metaknight, that's where I picked it up, dashing, turnaround sliding forward fsmash. very quick.

 

[DtJ S2n]

It's sort of a fundamental thing, as in it's a universal AT, but it's something a lot of people don't use. Personally I think it's too much work. Even if you get solid at the tech itself, implementing it in a real match seems impractical, it takes too long and you're moving too many hurtboxes around.

Worst case scenario is you do an Up B in Mid air to stop all momentum.

No, the worst case scenario is you do a normal side-b, and it boosts your momentum out of the hitstun and you just go flying off the side. Or at least I'm assuming our side-b will boost our momentum and cause us to die earlier in that situation, like most characters.

My philosophy is basically this: And this is something that I live by, and I always have and I always will. Dont ever for any reason do anything to anyone for any reason ever, no matter what. No matter where or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

I'll be honest I have no idea how this advice applies to d-tilt pressure, or am I missing something here :x

 

[Neon!]

I'll be honest I have no idea how this advice applies to d-tilt pressure, or am I missing something here :x

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I've been waiting for someone to respond to that. Just one of my favorite quote from the Office.

To adress Poke's original question: dtilt can be used to pressure falco only if it is spaced outside of his jab range. If falco shields dtilt he will most likely continue shielding to try to punish us, from this position we can dtilt again, ground pound or pull out a quick reversed bair. If falco shields a well spaced dtilt rolling away is his best option. If dtilt hits (after 5-10%) it is safe to try to dtilt again or ground pound or ftilt. At low percents (0-5ish%)a non tripping dtilt can be punished my by most characters.