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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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subterrestrial

Smash Ace
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IMO kazuya is definitely a grappler, he has 2 command grabs, an enhanced grab, and true 0-deaths on every character off of dthrow ewgf

edit: also the most damaging pummel in the game by far
 
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osby

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Hot take, or maybe not.


Healing mechanics don't belong in fighting games, unless they're HEAVILY balanced, like Hero's.


In a competitive 1 on 1 fight, there's nothing more "Feelsbadman" than watching your opponent recover from their mistakes by just healing it off, making all the investment into reads you pulled off earlier pointless.


If you're going to do healing, it has to have a caveat to it so it doesn't become frustrating and unfun to deal with.
I mean, nobody is saying that it has to be a free heal.

Just do it like how Persona 4 Arena handled Yukiko. She can heal by following up Dia's initial attack but it's super unsafe on block and only works for a limited time per stock. That way, you need to punish the opponent first if you want any hope in having substantial healing and she already has low health so it doesn't make her a damage sponge.
 

Ivander

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Everyone drop what you're doing and look at this!

It's like Demitri's Midnight Bliss, but 1000x better. I want this in Super Smash Bros. so freaking bad now!
Knew it was a thing in Darkstalkers. Didn't know it was also in Capcom Fighting Evo.

But man, old Capcom really enjoyed transformation animations back then. Like besides Demitri's Midnight Bliss, Anakaris' Pharoah's Curse and Lord Raptor's Hell Dunk, there was also the Red Arremer transformations from SvC Chaos. Nowadays, it's ArcSys with the attacks that have transfomation animations and whatnot.

It will be frickin' wild the day Smash adds a character with a transformation attack.
 
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Froggy

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IMO kazuya is definitely a grappler, he has 2 command grabs, an enhanced grab, and true 0-deaths on every character off of dthrow ewgf

edit: also the most damaging pummel in the game by far
Oh right,

I forgot he sets up combos of his forward through. Yeah that guy is bugging by saying Kazuya ain't a grappler.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Knew it was a thing in Darkstalkers. Didn't know it was also in Capcom Fighting Evo.

But man, old Capcom really enjoyed transformation animations back then. Like besides Demitri's Midnight Bliss, Anakaris' Pharoah's Curse and Lord Raptor's Hell Dunk, there was also the Red Arremer transformations from SvC Chaos. Nowadays, it's ArcSys with the attacks that have transfomation animations and whatnot.

It will be frickin' wild the day Smash adds a character with a transformation attack.
Problem is that every single one would need to be approved, I believe Demitri was deliberately kept out of MvC as Marvel did not like the transformation thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the age of 3D had something to do with it too as one off sprites were much easier to make than a one off model
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Knew it was a thing in Darkstalkers. Didn't know it was also in Capcom Fighting Evo.

But man, old Capcom really enjoyed transformation animations back then. Like besides Demitri's Midnight Bliss, Anakaris' Pharoah's Curse and Lord Raptor's Hell Dunk, there was also the Red Arremer transformations from SvC Chaos. Nowadays, it's ArcSys with the attacks that have transfomation animations and whatnot.

It will be frickin' wild the day Smash adds a character with a transformation attack.
I believe Anakaris has it in Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, but it only turns you into one thing because 56 character roster.

I love character specific interactions, and if we can get more than Kirby's Copy Abilities, Snake's codex, and Pit's Palutena's Guidance, I will be hyped.

I was going to say I would settle for Faust's affros, but then I realized that there is character specific dialogue concerning them, and now I want it even more. I can already imagine Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard getting an affro, and the trainer going "wut?". I would also like to hear Bayonetta's response to the affro be it positive, negative, or surprise that Faust can change her hairstyle despite her normally having full control over her hair.
 

Slime Scholar

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On the idea of a passive healer- you wouldn't be able to let off of them. They would require constant attention. (Perhaps they have passive healing for every several seconds they are not hit, and they try to maintain distance and evasion when trying to heal).
Thing is, there are already characters that demand constant attention, and some people find them annoying. If you let off zoners, they spam with projectiles. If you let off Cloud, he'll charge his limit and have an advantage the next time he's up close. If you let off Hero, he'll reach into his magic bag and do something unstable. But all of these things have ways of losing their utility or outright failing during the match. Projectiles can miss and are no longer worthwhile at certain % levels. Cloud has to land his limit break before he loses it. The Hero's command select is, by design, unreliable and requires resource management.

Passive recovery sounds like a mess on paper. For the player using it, there's no advantage to not healing, meaning there's no reason not to spend as much time avoiding the opponent as possible, which is something Smash makes easier than other fighting games through movement options, large stages, free-for-all battles, and the fact that the entire game revolves around creating distance by launching your opponent away. For the player fighting against the healer, they have to keep pressing on against a turtling opponent or else their hard work will go to waste. There's no real decision-making here, the counterplay is something they were probably going to try anyway. And what happens when these characters get into a mirror match?
I just think there are so many different ways for it to work, that saying it flatly doesn't work is just... well, as I already said, unimaginative.
As far as 'not an interesting concept,' I mean... have you seen Fire Emblem?
fire emblem bad, yes, I'm aware.

Sorry for being unimaginative? Not saying it's literally impossible to make something out of the concept, but if we're just going to default to "Sakurai could probably figure something out" then I don't even see the point in having a discussion about its merits.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Btw it's super funny seeing an argument about whether or not Kazuya is a grappler when Mishima is literally an archetype.

Mishima
Tekken
Link to Mishima
A character archetype in the Tekken series, most notable for their ability to wavedash and perform Electric Wind God Fists and Hellsweeps. Usually, the character will share the last name Mishima, or be related to the Mishima family in some way. Kazuya, Heihachi, and Devil Jin are all Mishimas, and sometimes Jin is included in the list depending on who you ask. They're typically known for being high execution characters that are fun to watch when controlled by experts.
Japanese
三島 (mishima) — Lit. mishima
Archetype
Link to Archetype
A way to categorize a character's general playstyle, based on their best moves. For example, zoners want to keep their opponent far away. Grapplers want to get real close and give you a giant hug. Hit and run characters look for small hits at all ranges, and constantly move around to make themselves a hard target. Certain series even have their own unique lingo for archetypes common to their games. Street Fighter has the shoto, Tekken has the Mishima, and Smash Bros. has the space animal.

I'm no Tekken player but from whatbI remember, Mishimas are generally about landing pokes and pushing advantage, Kazuya specifically being a whiff punisher among the archetype
 

Ivander

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Problem is that every single one would need to be approved, I believe Demitri was deliberately kept out of MvC as Marvel did not like the transformation thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the age of 3D had something to do with it too as one off sprites were much easier to make than a one off model
I know. That's why I said it will be wild the day Smash adds a character with a transformation attack. Cause that would mean all of them have been approved.

And not that Demitri requires the transformations anyway since Project X Zone shows that he can be added without the transformations.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Problem is that every single one would need to be approved, I believe Demitri was deliberately kept out of MvC as Marvel did not like the transformation thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the age of 3D had something to do with it too as one off sprites were much easier to make than a one off model
I'm sure Midnight Bliss is a hard sell to companies since while the transformations themselves are amusing, the actual move as a concept is actually pretty bad, and even without considering that, you're still genderbending their characters and making them sexy and stuff.

Anakaris's move is far more innocent though, and I think it would be pretty difficult for companies to not agree to the idea in the context of Super Smash Bros. since they've all agreed that their characters slipping on a banana peel is OK. The models thing though...yeah 80+ models that can run and jump around is a lot of work for a single move.
 
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MBRedboy31

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Knew it was a thing in Darkstalkers. Didn't know it was also in Capcom Fighting Evo.

But man, old Capcom really enjoyed transformation animations back then. Like besides Demitri's Midnight Bliss, Anakaris' Pharoah's Curse and Lord Raptor's Hell Dunk, there was also the Red Arremer transformations from SvC Chaos. Nowadays, it's ArcSys with the attacks that have transfomation animations and whatnot.

It will be frickin' wild the day Smash adds a character with a transformation attack.
Technically, Mr, Game & Watch’s throws in Ultimate are transformation attacks when used on other playable characters since they cause them to briefly turn into their stock icons. (Super Smash Flash 2 expands on this a bit by giving every character a unique “turned into a ball” sprite instead of using the stock icons, IIRC.) It’s still pretty underwhelming compared to the other examples, though…
 

Guynamednelson

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Everyone drop what you're doing and look at this!

It's like Demitri's Midnight Bliss, but 1000x better. I want this in Super Smash Bros. so freaking bad now!
inb4 they pull an MvC2 and have everyone just turn into the same voodoo doll
 

osby

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Considering the popularity with female Nintendo characters, I'd be legitimately curious on how well a "Super Bash Sisters" would do.
I can't see going too well with the fandom. Sure, Smash can always use more female characters but it has a good amount of them. A girls-only Smash game would be seen as a downgrade since a lot of the popular Nintendo women are already in Smash and you'd be getting rid of so many heavy hitters.
 

Cosmic77

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No offense, but a Smash game that focuses solely on female characters would wipe out a majority of the best characters in video games and give us C or D-tier material in exchange.

I know we're likely just daydreaming here, but I don't think Sakurai could make a decent female-only roster unless he put an extremely large focus on third-parties.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Pic of the Day:


"Dragon Quest XI" (DRAGON QUEST XI) was released today in 2017 !! A work that realizes completely different video expression in 2D mode in PS4 and 3DS, as well as 3DS. It was the definitive edition of the "Dragon Quest" series, and it was a volume that worried about the development of the next work.
Love how he casually mentioned the PlayStation4 (tho it makes sense why he did)
Kinda like how when Tekken 1 gameplay was shown in the Kazuya presentation They said “PlayStation game footage” on the right.

happy Thursday y’all
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
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I wanted to bring this to your attention. From a Discord server I follow, it's an observation regarding the Japanese Smash tournament rounds and the gaps between them. The gap between round 1, 2, and 3 are all 42 days (6 weeks), using this, FP 11's tournament (round 4) will be on October 9th Round 3 of the Final Smash Ultimate tournaments is August 28th Probable reveal date of FP11 : September 7-9th Probable release date of FP 11: September 21-23rd Probable weekend of Round 4: October 9th Probable weekend of Round 5: December 11th. Also worth noting is that it was about 2 and a half weeks/roughly after the reveal of both Steve and Kazuya for example when they had their specific tournaments.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Love how he casually mentioned the PlayStation4 (tho it makes sense why he did)
Kinda like how when Tekken 1 gameplay was shown in the Kazuya presentation They said “PlayStation game footage” on the right.

happy Thursday y’all
He also said 3DS twice lmao
 

MarioRaccoon

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I wanted to bring this to your attention. From a Discord server I follow, it's an observation regarding the Japanese Smash tournament rounds and the gaps between them. The gap between round 1, 2, and 3 are all 42 days (6 weeks), using this, FP 11's tournament (round 4) will be on October 9th Round 3 of the Final Smash Ultimate tournaments is August 28th Probable reveal date of FP11 : September 7-9th Probable release date of FP 11: September 21-23rd Probable weekend of Round 4: October 9th Probable weekend of Round 5: December 11th. Also worth noting is that it was about 2 and a half weeks/roughly after the reveal of both Steve and Kazuya for example when they had their specific tournaments.
That sounds interesting as Round 4 would be the same weekend as Switch OLED model releases and Round 5 the same week as Ultimate’s 3rd anniversary.

In addition, potential CP11 would also coincide with the usual date of Nintendo’s fall direct.
 
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SNEKeater

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Yuna and Princess Garnet aren’t really the main protagonists but the story in each game does revolve around both of them. FFIX and FFX were my two favorite games in the series and Garnet is my favorite character from IX. I think they could each make for great Smash characters utilizing white mage abilities as well as summoning.
I mean, Garnet and Yuna aren't the main playable characters but I'd definitely define both as protagonists.

They're probably more relevant to the plot than both Zidane and Tidus.
 

Theguy123

Smash Lord
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Something I’ve been wondering is do we know if there was a specific reasoning to why sakurai had to say the presentation for kazuya wasn’t recorded yet considering all the previous presentations had either been straight away after the character announcements or had been in the following weeks and were never addressed before as to why.

I don’t know why but it just keeps playing on my mind for some reason.
 

blackghost

Smash Champion
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that grappler conversation is funny. kazuya is not a grappler. smash grapplers are smash 4 bpwser, dk, brawl and melee ice climbers and brawl deedee.
If you start definiing grappler as a character that uses grabs to start combos in smash then everyone is a grappler practically.
There is no size requirement for grapplers. and having a command grab doesnt make you a grappler.

lets play a game who's a grappler:



Ivy-Isabella-Valentine-Soul-Calibur.jpg
marvel-vs-capcom-2-xbox-360-ps3-juggernaut.jpg
T7FR_King.jpg
504-5045839_hisako-desktop-background-hisako-killer-instinct-hd-png.png
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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X-Factor in UMVC3 had a use of allowing you to heal red health alongside boosting your damage output, which could be used as a comeback mechanic because it increased more if you lost more characters. People didn't like that mechanic to say the least as it worked well with quite a few of the top tiers, particularly Vergil, Dante and Dark Phoenix.

Healing in fighting games is either totally OP or completely irrelevant in both a casual and competitive format. I don't want a character based on healing in Smash.
 
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