Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[FreeFox]

Passive intangibility would be absolutely busted.

Unless you meant the ability to go through people when walking towards them like in pre-Ultimate? Because that's an entirely different thing.

No, I imagine he would have to activate it as a special move. Maybe, using some kind of resource to prevent it from being cheesy and avoid from being abused. He couldnt attack or move while intangible. He would be basically acting like the boo enemies, hiding their eyes and remaining in place. Which are unable to attack or be attacked.

 

[subterrestrial]

Did I miss the talk about gimmick for characters?

I have a few on my own:
-Isaac could have a djinn collecting mechanic changing his moveset.
-King Boo: Intangiability/ Using boos to slow down opponents or make them lighter
-Phoenix Wright: Collecting evidence making his attacks stronger. (like the more evidence he has, the stronger he gets)
-Waluigi could use items from the Mario Party series to debuff opponents/buff himself

these are all great ideas

 

[Karen6969]

Did I miss the talk about gimmick for characters?

I have a few on my own:
-Isaac could have a djinn collecting mechanic changing his moveset.
-King Boo: Intangiability/ Using boos to slow down opponents or make them lighter
-Phoenix Wright: Collecting evidence making his attacks stronger. (like the more evidence he has, the stronger he gets)
-Waluigi could use items from the Mario Party series to debuff opponents/buff himself

I really like the idea of Waluigi being able to use Mario party items. Smuggling items into matches where items are turned off is definitely in character for Waluigi. I’d love the wacky random gameplay that would ensue, and I really just think Mario party deserves more content in smash (Waluigi’s island please)

 

[FreeFox]

I really like the idea of Waluigi being able to use Mario party items. Smuggling items into matches where items are turned off is definitely in character for Waluigi. I’d love the wacky random gameplay that would ensue, and I really just think Mario party deserves more content in smash (Waluigi’s island please)

Yep, I was thinking of something like the item bag from the Mario Party series to visualize this. I would imagine that the item pull would be random and maybe a limit like he can only pull a max. of three items out at a time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, I imagine he would have to activate it as a special move. Maybe, using some kind of resource to prevent it from being cheesy and avoid from being abused. He couldnt attack or move while intangible. He would be basically acting like the boo enemies, hiding their eyes and remaining in place. Which are unable to attack or be attacked.

How do you prevent Boo players from spamming it as soon as they have an advantage to camp you out?

 

[Slime Scholar]

Did I miss the talk about gimmick for characters?

I have a few on my own:
-Isaac could have a djinn collecting mechanic changing his moveset.
-King Boo: Intangiability/ Using boos to slow down opponents or make them lighter
-Phoenix Wright: Collecting evidence making his attacks stronger. (like the more evidence he has, the stronger he gets)
-Waluigi could use items from the Mario Party series to debuff opponents/buff himself

I like the idea of Phoenix Wright's moveset representing the different phases of his games.

Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 - Phoenix Wright

Take this! Objection! Phoenix Wright is always pointing the finger at someone and it seems the entire cast of Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 is guilty of someth...

www.youtube.com

For those who don't know, in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, he has three "modes" that affect his moveset. He starts out in "investigation mode" where a button input causes him to scrounge around on the ground to find a piece of evidence, which can randomly be good or bad. Putting in the same input causes him to discard the evidence. At any time, he can switch to "trial mode" where the evidence can be used to perform new attacks. If he lands an Objection while in trial mode, and all 3 of his pieces of evidence are "good" he'll enter "turnabout mode" where he's crazy strong and his moves, once again, take on new properties.

The main problem with the character is the actual process of collecting evidence being far too unreliable. Make no mistake, he's absolutely terrible because of it, but I think there's a lot of potential there. They used appropriately outside-the-box thinking when designing him for MvC and it'd be really cool to see Smash try the same.

 

[FreeFox]

How do you prevent Boo players from spamming it as soon as they have an advantage to camp you out?

Besides the no mobility/no way to attack and the resource depletion? I suppose a bit of ending lag when coming out of the intangiability after the move is used, could also be an option. The way I see the move, its like the defensive counterpart to Banjo-Kazooie´s wonderwing.

 

[osby]

Besides the no mobility/no way to attack and the resource depletion? I suppose a bit of ending lag when coming out of the intangiability after the move is used, could also be an option. The way I see the move, its like the defensive counterpart to Banjo-Kazooie´s wonderwing.

So, like Kirby's Stone and Hero's Kaclang but without a falling hitbox?

 

[FreeFox]

So, like Kirby's Stone and Hero's Kaclang but without a falling hitbox?

Yep, basically that. Except that things like projectiles would pass through him.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I wish all scalpers a very unpleasant.... well, the worst thing I can wish them while being Smashboards appropriate.

The Switch OLED preorders literally JUST went live….

Why are scalpers like this? pic.twitter.com/bVOxtJSw4e

— TheNCSmaster (@TheNCSmaster) July 15, 2021

 

[Idon]

Here's a gimmick for you: having cool as **** looking moves:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's a gimmick for you: having cool as **** looking moves:

But we already have Sephiroth, and then Mythra brought Photon Edge with her. If we get any cooler moves the game's gonna explode!

Spoiler

Oh that is definitely a reference to...uh...that one anime...with the drill and the...uh...yeeeeah.

 

[FreeFox]

Here's a gimmick for you: having cool as **** looking moves:

Hee ho intensifies

That is all I will say on the matter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But we already have Sephiroth, and then Mythra brought Photon Edge with her. If we get any cooler moves the game's gonna explode!


Oh that is definitely a reference to...uh...that one anime...with the drill and the...uh...yeeeeah.

Sephiroth and Mythra don't have ice moves while Nahobino has been shown using Bufu class spells, so he has the cooler moves

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Here's a gimmick for you: having cool as **** looking moves

Have you ever considered that maybe he's too cool for Smash?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Have you ever considered that maybe he's too cool for Smash?

more like too new

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

more like too new

I know that, and I'm sure Idon also knows it and is just gushing about the game he's really hyped for.

Let us joke

 

[Guynamednelson]

Let us joke

I am, that's why the text was crossed out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sephiroth and Mythra don't have ice moves while Nahobino has been shown using Bufu class spells, so he has the cooler moves

Does that make the Ice Climbers the coolest characters in Super Smash Bros.?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well for one thing, he doesn't swap weapons. For another thing, his stance isn't the type they're referring to. His stances are literally just temporary states that lead to other moves, like Joker's gun. What they're more looking for is a shift in moveset that's more constant.

Why does it matter if he is switching moves but doesn't switch weapons, if his moveset changes while his character stats stay the same?

Does that make the Ice Climbers the coolest characters in Super Smash Bros.?

I'd say PK Freeze is the most memorable Ice move in the game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Does that make the Ice Climbers the coolest characters in Super Smash Bros.?

No, because their parkas warm them back up.

Coolest would be Lucas.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Does that make the Ice Climbers the coolest characters in Super Smash Bros.?

You see those wobble combos? Thwy're not cool, they're coldhearted beasts

 

[Ivander]

Does that make the Ice Climbers the coolest characters in Super Smash Bros.?

No, because their parkas warm them back up.

Coolest would be Lucas.

With his Claus costume.

Cause...you know...

 

[subterrestrial]

wow lucas rly out here casting ice spells in shorts

 

[pupNapoleon]

Never mind the train, I’m convinced they never got any tickets in the first place. With everything that’s going on, plus the rumors about Disney being twenty times stingier than what Squeenix was initially thought to be, it’s possible that they were never brought up among the devs in the first place.

Well, if we are taking Sakurai's words at face value (which, to be clear, I think is ridiculous, because PR is always going to be involved), he (or maybe Reggie, but point stands) stated (I think in 2018) that any company approached for a character has not turned Nintendo down.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

wow lucas rly out here casting ice spells in shorts

Hey, it's Cryokenesis, not Cryomancy! They are two totally different things!

 

[pupNapoleon]

wow lucas rly out here casting ice spells in shorts

Scandinavians are blond... and can deal with the cold...
I think we just learned Lucas's ethnicity.

#DailySmashFacts

 

[DarthEnderX]

" Samus’ suit has changed quite a bit in Metroid Dread. Since becoming a sleek organic suit during the events of Metroid Fusion, it is gradually reverting to its original mechanical Power Suit state. "

....whhhhyyy?

 

[Idon]

Why does it matter if he is switching moves but doesn't switch weapons, if his moveset changes while his character stats stay the same?

Well, effectively it doesn't. A different move can be accomplished from changing the entire character to just altering its frame-data.
It's more for aesthetic purposes than anything, but there's a lot to be said about aesthetics.

Byleth could've very easily done every other single attack (minus maybe the bow shot) but animated with his sword, but the emphasis on the multitude of weapons is what makes him stand out more than had he just done the same moves.

For a non-Smash example, there's a reason Kratos in the latest God of War uses his old blades of chaos rather than just getting, say, a fire axe attached to a chain.

Visual impact goes a long way. I imagine had Byleth gone even further and say, been able to fully swap out his moveset with the axe and spear, he'd be a lot more popular than he is as of now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

 

[Idon]

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

Neku Sakuraba for all of them.

 

[Metal_Sonic]

I think whoever the final character is should have a World of Light reveal trailer with that character killing both Galeem And Dharkon at the same time.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, effectively it doesn't. A different move can be accomplished from changing the entire character to just altering its frame-data.
It's more for aesthetic purposes than anything, but there's a lot to be said about aesthetics.

Byleth could've very easily done every other single attack (minus maybe the bow shot) but animated with his sword, but the emphasis on the multitude of weapons is what makes him stand out more than had he just done the same moves.

For a non-Smash example, there's a reason Kratos in the latest God of War uses his old blades of chaos rather than just getting, say, a fire axe attached to a chain.

Visual impact goes a long way. I imagine had Byleth gone even further and say, been able to fully swap out his moveset with the axe and spear, he'd be a lot more popular than he is as of now.

I agree that aesthetic is important, to some extent- but I would argue that Byleth doesn't actually stand much at all, because their moves really serve little purpose as separately functioning weapons. And since the conversation at hand was just about mechanical play, I think the point of aesthetic comes into conversation even less so than on average.

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

So... plant counts as nothing, but ice, electricity, and death, are all elements? Hmmm....

Honeslty, the closest I can think for a cryomancer, would be a Resident Evil character. Their moveset doesn't have to be them literally controlling the dead, as much as utilizing them for attacks (in short, controlling them as a character is controlling the dead).
Earth... well, I think it often goes in hand with plant. Obviously, my choice here would be Isaac.
Pyromancer- I mean, Charizard, Captain Falcon... we have enough, not to mention all the characters that utilize it for a single attack.
I'd say Kirby clearly utilizes manipulation of air, considering his flight, suction, and blow techniques.
I really don't think we need more electric and fire users...especially fire. More ice moves would be very welcome.


EDIT::: For some reason I read cryomancy as necromancy ----aghhhh
I must say, I don't think Mortal Kombat characters, nor the Champions, count in these categories- as they are both parts of sets, but would be viable for many of these.

 

[Goombaic]

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

Impossible mode, huh? Uhh...

1. Pyromancer- Blaze the Cat works, right? Sonic characters aren't exactly themed by elements so she should be fair game.

2. Hydromancer- Chaos from Sonic counts too, right? For the sake of diversity, I googled water users from video games and Azura from Fire Emblem Fates fits pretty well so how about her.

3. Geomancer- Idk. Surely there's a boss in something like Touhou or No More Heroes that fits here.

4. Aeromancer- Spyro can fly so he can manipulate the air, I think. Crash is an orange tornado so he totally fits here too.

5. Cryomancer- There's more than a handful to choose from, but I'll go with an obscure pick with Rundas from Metroid Prime 3.

6. Electromancer- Specter Knight summons thunder during his fight so why not?

 

[Idon]

I agree that aesthetic is important, to some extent- but I would argue that Byleth doesn't actually stand much at all, because their moves really serve little purpose as separately functioning weapons.

And I agree. Byleth doesn't stand out very much.
However, I'm saying he would stand out much less had the animations been just the sword but the properties remained the same.

While a weapon swap's main "appeal" to a viewer is the aesthetic change, weapon swapping in general implies a more drastic change than a stance change which generally supplement gameplay rather than change it completely. Not always but generally.

Just play a game like Nioh and you'll feel the difference as that game has both stances and weapon swapping.
Every weapon has a low stance, a middle stance, and a high stance and 10 or so moves locked to each stance.
Changing stances does change your moveset and how you play subtly.

However, you can also swap weapons mid-combat and that changes every one of your attacks far more drastically, despite keeping the core "character."

 

[spicynun]

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

Pyro: Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
Hydro: Chaos (Sonic)
Geo: Isaac (Golden Sun)
Aero: Saber (Fate) Also Toon Link kinda counts for already in to me
Cryo: Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Electric: Cole (Infamous)

 

[Schnee117]

Oh that is definitely a reference to...uh...that one anime...with the drill and the...uh...yeeeeah.

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

Pyromancer - Sol (Guilty Gear)
Hydromancer - Rain (Mortal Kombat)
Geomancer - Tremor (Mortal Kombat)
Aeromancer - Rashid (Street Fighter)
Cryomancer - Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Electromancer - Chief Thunder (Killer Instinct)

Oops all fighting games

 

[GoodGrief741]

On the subject of elemental abilities, say we had an elemental pass. Who would be your picks for:

• The Pyromancer
• The Hydromancer
• The Geomancer
• The Aeromancer
• The Cryomancer
• The...uh...electricity doesn't really have a prefix does it?

The characters don't have to be casters, they just have to have the element associated with them. Example characters from the game itself would be Roy, Squirtle, uh...Steeeeve?, none of them, Ice Climbers, and Pikachu. A character does not count if they use a few different elements equally, even if one of their moves is iconic (PK Fire is very notable, but doesn't count as a motif for the character). For the sake of clarity, plant based abilities don't count as earth, and if a "water" mage mostly uses ice spells, they count as ice and not water (if they use both the same amount then...take your pick I guess).

Hard Mode: None of them can be a Pokémon.
Impossible Mode: None of them can come from groups where everyone is themed after an element, so no Blades, Skylanders, Rivals (of Aether), etc.

Pyromancer: this is like the most common power ever so there are millions of options. Guess I'll go with Kyo.
Hydromancer: Bub & Bob
Geomancer: Isaac
Aeromancer: Tony Hawk
Cryomancer: Sub-Zero
Electro...mancer?: Crono

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I think whoever the final character is should have a World of Light reveal trailer with that character killing both Galeem And Dharkon at the same time.

This would easily fit an SMT rep. Not only does it fit the law vs chaos stuff (with killing both implying a neutral path), but SMT protagonists are characters that could beat both at once.

For example:

Spoiler: SMT Nocturne spoilers

In the true demon ending in Nocturne, the Demi-Fiend kills kagutsuchi and beats Lucifer in a fight (although it's debatable how much that counts since Lucifer was just testing his power) one after the other.

Although, I'd want them to pose the Demi-Fiend as the "villain" of his trailer since he's morally ambiguous. Like, Joker and the phantom thieves are searching for treasure somewhere, and they get taken out one by one by this mysterious entity. Only Joker is left, and you see a green glow as this plays:

It's the Demi-Fiend, and he's come to get the invitation that Joker stole back.

Or it could be a remixed version of Joker's trailer with the Demi-Fiend showing up when the invitation appears.

I don't know enough about the Nahobino yet to come up with a trailer, but killing galeem and dharkon would probably work.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Jill Dozer counts as geomancy, the only difference being that it is tech, and not a metaphysical biological power.
And the same goes for Balloon Fighter and air- as would it go for a large part of the gimmick Ring Fit Adventurer would likely employ, with sucking and blowing.

Something I learned from this exercise- a lot of moves in the game could be considered elemental. Villager's tree, Peach's turnips- earth. King K Rool's gun, Dedede and Kirby sucking, Metaknight's Tornado, Steve's glider- all air. Lightning and Fire are clear, especially the latter.

This would easily fit an SMT rep. Not only does it fit the law vs chaos stuff (with killing both implying a neutral path), but SMT protagonists are characters that could beat both at once.

For example:

Spoiler: SMT Nocturne spoilers

In the true demon ending in Nocturne, the Demi-Fiend kills kagutsuchi and beats Lucifer in a fight (although it's debatable how much that counts since Lucifer was just testing his power) one after the other.

Although, I'd want them to pose the Demi-Fiend as the "villain" of his trailer since he's morally ambiguous. Like, Joker and the phantom thieves are searching for treasure somewhere, and they get taken out one by one by this mysterious entity. Only Joker is left, and you see a green glow as this plays:

It's the Demi-Fiend, and he's come to get the invitation that Joker stole back.

Or it could be a remixed version of Joker's trailer with the Demi-Fiend showing up when the invitation appears.

I don't know enough about the Nahobino yet to come up with a trailer, but killing galeem and dharkon would probably work.

I really don't think it would help SMT out to propagate the idea that it is the same series as Joker.