Do we have enough Smash games?

[Laserbeamed]

Or, will we very soon? Assuming no one wants to play a Smash Bros. that is slower/more defensive than the slowest/most defensive to date and every game other than that one will be faster and more offensive, when will enough be enough? Obviously they will keep making the series forever because it is amazing, but we are developing a fairly nice spread of experiences already. Brawl to 4 to Melee (not sure where the 64 version fits in because I am a noob and haven't looked into it) is a decent range of speed options, and we're getting to the point where there are tons of characters per game. Hopefully we will have so many viable characters per game that we will be more satisfied sticking to that game (8 games into the series, are we really going to hold events for all 8 games in tourneys?).

If 4 ends up being between Melee and Brawl in terms of speed, there is no good reason for Smash 5 to not approach the speed of Melee. At least none that my scrub mind can come up with. I realize the games are more nuanced than just speed (something can be as fast as Melee and feel off to people for other reasons), but I have high hopes for 4 and 5 being "all we need." And then the other games would be niche experiences people hold tourneys for now and then. It might not end up being that way, but it's an interesting topic to think about.

What do you think? If you're going to throw tomatoes at me, make them Maxim.

 

[Spaceman]

I'm fine with them creating new games as long as they aren't releasing sequels and spin offs like Activision does to its games until they're dead.

Call of Duty would be a great example, they release new games every year with the same stuff-- at least with smash, things are being changed over the course of several years, even if development hasn't started.

 

[Minato]

Moving this to the Smash 4 Wii U subforum since LH isn't typically the place to discuss Smash topics.
Even though it's for Smash 4, it's also where to discuss the current state of Smash too.

 

[Laserbeamed]

Ah my apologies. I thought it too broad to go under any specific game.

 

[Canuckduck]

1 Smash game per Nintendo console.

That's that.

 

[NoiseHERO]

What if they go...

The scummy super/hyper/turbo/ultimax/remix/redux/HD route. to resell the game for 30 dollars just because they added 5 characters no one wanted and two stages...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What if they go...

The scummy super/hyper/turbo/ultimax/remix/redux/HD route. to resell the game for 30 dollars just because they added 5 characters no one wanted and two stages...

Melee or 64 wouldn't benefit from this... how? Just saying.

 

[smashbro29]

What if they go...

The scummy super/hyper/turbo/ultimax/remix/redux/HD route. to resell the game for 30 dollars just because they added 5 characters no one wanted and two stages...

They're not really scummy at all once you do the math for DLC price per item.

 

[NoiseHERO]

Melee or 64 wouldn't benefit from this... how? Just saying.

They're not really scummy at all once you do the math for DLC price per item.

I dunno, I don't buy play fighting games but as a normal person, I don't see the benefit of re-buying the same game at 60% of it's price 7 times in a row just because the "we make incomplete games" DLC is too expensive. I'd rather just not buy any of it after the initial game. And I've not heard positive things about it from people that do play games that use this concept.

I'm also just suggesting what if they did in general. I say scummy because of personal feelings against crapcom who killed my favorite franchise. Who... funny enough made it into THIS game and not the obvious collaborative fighting series games that I'm thinking of! Though in general I'm sure there's other companies/series that handle it better, but yeah as far as I've heard doesn't sound like Sakurai's into the idea either.

Anyway was a silly whimsical un-researched comment that I'm not willing to debate over.

But if you want some way for your old games to get revived and polished that's probably not gonna happen officially then keep praying. Or keep playing those mods. <_>

 

[smashbro29]

I dunno, I don't buy play fighting games.

Your first issue.

but as a normal person, I don't see the benefit of re-buying the same game at 60% of it's price 7 times in a row just because the "we make incomplete games" DLC is too expensive. I'd rather just not buy any of it after the initial game. And I've not heard positive things about it from people that do play games that use this concept.

First off, what do you mean "you people"?

But seriously, they don't make incomplete games. The vanilla versions are well worth it when they come out in their own right and if you like it you can get more of it a little while later. But the math always works out. On average it's about 5 USD for a character in a fighting game. Updates usually cost 40 USD come on a new disc with major balance changes across the board, system changes, menu changes, new music, new dialogue and a lot more than 8 characters (which would be 40 USD) and if it comes with less you usually have the option to upgrade your old version as DLC for cheaper (where again the math more than works out).

I'm also just suggesting what if they did in general. I say scummy because of personal feelings against crapcom who killed my favorite franchise. Who... funny enough made it into THIS game and not the obvious collaborative fighting series games that I'm thinking of! Though in general I'm sure there's other companies/series that handle it better, but yeah as far as I've heard doesn't sound like Sakurai's into the idea either.

No company has put out "scummy" fighting game DLC. Bit expensive (emphasis on bit) we could talk but nothing straight up scummy.

"Crapcom" did not kill your favorite series (I'm guessing it's Mega Man) the last game came out in 2010, with a promotional release in 2012. 2 games were cancelled because of quality concerns (a pretty solid reason to cancel games) whcih is probably a huge setback for the people developing the games. While not making MvC3 was upsetting their reasoning was Arthur did his playstyle and someone in development was really pushing for him. I'm not happy about it either but "killing"? We got Zero and Tron Bonne.

Sakurai does seem into the idea once the base game is 100% done and going gold.

Anyway was a silly whimsical un-researched comment that I'm not willing to debate over.

Wow, thanks for wasting my time, as if you make statements because of a misguided bias towards a game company wasn't enough to invalidate your opinion. Please look up whimsical by the way.

But if you want some way for your old games to get revived and polished that's probably not gonna happen officially then keep praying. Or keep playing those mods. <_>

But they get updated all the time nowadays. Smash is totally gonna get updated. They'd be crazy not to for the ammibo sales alone.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Let's face it, this series has the same problem as Pokemon, only worse. Everytime a new game comes out we're going to be hyped and buy it, especially since it seems they only do one game per console. Pokemon is getting flak for that once a year thing so it might actually see a decline again, but smash? No one will ever say "there's too much smash."

 

[Mysteltainn]

I like what Nintendo does with the Super Smash Bros. series. They give us a nice update every 6 or so years with new physics, new characters, new items, new environments to brawl on and a new experience.

The same cannot be said for Call of Duty, and unfortunately, Assassin's Creed has taken this road as well, who relentlessly pelt their fan-base with a new game every year with minimal differences, glitches from lack of testing (AC3 anyone?), and not a whole lot of thought put into turning them into a new experience (although AC4 was pretty good IMO).

 

[courte]

Imho opinion complete with bias, they don't change enough in each new smash game. Its interesting to fights as new characters against new characters, and while its not their fault, if you put marth or fox, they will come for him.

I don't think we have nearly enough smash games, because I feel its the best fighter/tribute game for every developer to use. Project x zone and tales are too rpg heavy, and psasbr feels rushed and wonky though I See what they were trying to do. The smash formula, when expanded upon is the best, and small changes could make every version unique. A Pokémon smash with team mechanics and in match evolution. A fire emblem smash with in match level and equip select/durability, class select at the stage select. A capcom x Konami smash with a punch, kick, special button layout, and combination presses for certain special moves. A tales smash that's good. Just like most 2d use conventions like 360 and qcf. It works, don't try and fix it. just pour tons of care into development, don't rush or cashgrab and the genre can fulfill it's potential

 

[Laserbeamed]

First off, what do you mean "you people"?

Has there been any substantial talk of DLC in this Smash Bros.? I ask because my wii u happens to not be connected to the internet. I tried back in 2012 but my home connection is just plain weird and at the time people were bricking their systems by botching some sort of firmware update or something so I just ducked out of trying. And it's sort of been in a box in the corner for the last 18 months lol. This line of talk is giving me flashbacks of when I tried to buy a game for my laptop which had the internet blocked because of some heavy spyware. I wanted something to do on it and spied Civ 5 in the store. I always liked that series (and bought Civ 4 and played it with no issues) so I paid the price for the game and came home and discovered I could not play the game I just bought without an internet connection to validate it. Soul crushing bull****tery

 

[Stompman]

Has there been any substantial talk of DLC in this Smash Bros.? I ask because my wii u happens to not be connected to the internet. I tried back in 2012 but my home connection is just plain weird and at the time people were bricking their systems by botching some sort of firmware update or something so I just ducked out of trying. And it's sort of been in a box in the corner for the last 18 months lol. This line of talk is giving me flashbacks of when I tried to buy a game for my laptop which had the internet blocked because of some heavy spyware. I wanted something to do on it and spied Civ 5 in the store. I always liked that series (and bought Civ 4 and played it with no issues) so I paid the price for the game and came home and discovered I could not play the game I just bought without an internet connection to validate it. Soul crushing bull****tery

The Gematsu leaker, which by this point looks very likely to be accurate, has indicated that there will be DLC characters. That being said, I have downloaded several WiiU updates and my console has been fine.

 

[Laserbeamed]

Yeah the issue was like turning off the connection during the update or something... I wouldn't want my connection to cut out on me mid-update. DLC for something like Smash is kind of annoying but I get that's a popular thing for companies to do. And really if they were to be slow about it (like a character every several months) it might even help keep the meta fresh.

 

[DakotaBonez]

1 Smash game per Nintendo console.

That's that.

But hopefully they will all be playable one one console.
Awaiting the release of Melee and 64 on the wiiu Eshop.

 

[Minato]

What if they go...

The scummy super/hyper/turbo/ultimax/remix/redux/HD route. to resell the game for 30 dollars just because they added 5 characters no one wanted and two stages...

The retail price is for those that never bought it. I don't see what's wrong with that if existing owners can upgrade for way cheaper.

I'm also just suggesting what if they did in general. I say scummy because of personal feelings against crapcom who killed my favorite franchise. Who... funny enough made it into THIS game and not the obvious collaborative fighting series games that I'm thinking of!

Curious, but if it's Mega Man, how many Mega Man games did you actually buy? I'm a fan of the series myself, but so many salty fans on the internet seem to never have supported any of the later entries.

Regarding the topic itself, I find it perfectly fine for one Smash title per console. Each one has enough gameplay changes to make it a different experience. Sure there might be some overlap (most likely Brawl and Smash 4), but I don't see anything wrong with that. Lets gamers play Smash with a new set up rules and pieces each gen.

 

[NoiseHERO]

Your first issue.

First off, what do you mean "you people"?

But seriously, they don't make incomplete games. The vanilla versions are well worth it when they come out in their own right and if you like it you can get more of it a little while later. But the math always works out. On average it's about 5 USD for a character in a fighting game. Updates usually cost 40 USD come on a new disc with major balance changes across the board, system changes, menu changes, new music, new dialogue and a lot more than 8 characters (which would be 40 USD) and if it comes with less you usually have the option to upgrade your old version as DLC for cheaper (where again the math more than works out).


No company has put out "scummy" fighting game DLC. Bit expensive (emphasis on bit) we could talk but nothing straight up scummy.

"Crapcom" did not kill your favorite series (I'm guessing it's Mega Man) the last game came out in 2010, with a promotional release in 2012. 2 games were cancelled because of quality concerns (a pretty solid reason to cancel games) whcih is probably a huge setback for the people developing the games. While not making MvC3 was upsetting their reasoning was Arthur did his playstyle and someone in development was really pushing for him. I'm not happy about it either but "killing"? We got Zero and Tron Bonne.

Sakurai does seem into the idea once the base game is 100% done and going gold.

Wow, thanks for wasting my time, as if you make statements because of a misguided bias towards a game company wasn't enough to invalidate your opinion. Please look up whimsical by the way.


But they get updated all the time nowadays. Smash is totally gonna get updated. They'd be crazy not to for the ammibo sales alone.

Wow you're definitely from Brookly-

If you didn't get the point, I was implying I could instantly tell you care WAY more than I do on this topic, so I have no "problems" whether or not you agree with my, yeah "whimsical" comment that I was already sure would be 80% wrong. Yeah-yeah you calm, you calm.

This could have branched off topic about DLC, or buying super smash bros HYPER TURBO, or about marketing strategies not everyone agrees with or even whether or not this should even be considered a real fighting game(that one sounds like a BIG drama maker too.)

But nah I'm good admitting I'm wrong and copping out. and no, you know what you bothered to type, you wasted your own time.

The retail price is for those that never bought it. I don't see what's wrong with that if existing owners can upgrade for way cheaper.

Curious, but if it's Mega Man, how many Mega Man games did you actually buy? I'm a fan of the series myself, but so many salty fans on the internet seem to never have supported any of the later entries.

Yes I'm a salty Mega Man fan and yes I even bought and enjoyed the "recent" not-as-popular ones. I'm not one of those dudes that only played a few mega man X games then complained that Starforce sucked or something until it was all gone. Mega Man V was the first game I've ever played.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

One, maybe two Smashes per console. If they ever have a launch Smash game, having another Smash before obsoletion would be OK with me.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

But hopefully they will all be playable one one console.
Awaiting the release of Melee and 64 on the wiiu Eshop.

64 is already playable on the Wii U.

 

[DakotaBonez]

64 is already playable on the Wii U.

On the virtual console right? I was kinda hoping for a WiiU Eshop release so I could play it on the gamepad. I know that I can make virtual console games appear on the gamepad screen but Id have to use a classic controller to control it because I don't think the wiichuk combo is compatible, I wanna be able to use a pro controller or the gamepad itself to control it.

 

[Jiggy37]

Big picture/marketing perspective:

There won't be enough Smash games as long as new amazing characters and series continue to be created. And we especially can't have enough Smash games in a world where Nintendo hasn't loaned out its engine to create Nintendo vs. Capcom, Super Smash Bros. x Street Fighter, or Tales of Smash. I mean, somebody somewhere thought up Pokemon Conquest, Fortune Street, Mario Hoops, Hyrule Warriors, and Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, and these are all fine ideas, but for some reason we're missing the obvious here.


Small picture/gameplay-oriented perspective:

So I'm interpreting the OP as the question of whether we have enough different gameplay mechanics already. Maybe between the four games we already have all the right options and the only things that need to be tweaked are knockback, gravity, landing lag, etc. Just add characters in each new game and that can be the formula for the rest of time. At first I wanted to agree, but as I thought about it, I still want the series to further explore one more major mechanic:

Letting players choose multiple characters per match.

Pokemon Trainer wasn't that great in practice, but the theory was perfectly sound and I'd like to see how it would work if it was universal. Say you could pick 3-5 characters and change between them (or stick to the same one) while you stand on the respawn platform, counterpicking mid-match. I'm sure casuals would love it. For competitive players it would depend, I guess, on the game balance and the number of horrifically bad matchups or infinites. It's worth a shot, though, and it would be nice to see more teamwork in a game called Super Smash Bros.

 

[Laserbeamed]

So I'm interpreting the OP as the question of whether we have enough different gameplay mechanics already. Maybe between the four games we already have all the right options and the only things that need to be tweaked are knockback, gravity, landing lag, etc. Just add characters in each new game and that can be the formula for the rest of time.

@ Jiggy37 Yeah, pretty much. More specifically, I am wondering if 4 will render Brawl pointless (almost a complete overshadowing to where people do not even want to play Brawl unless their character didn't make the sequel) and if a Smash 5, if done right, would make Melee people foam at the mouth and drop Melee. So Smash 5 for the ultra competitive and Smash 4 for a scene that is competitive just not /quite/ as in intense. I have no doubt some people will play Melee when their grandkids are 40 but I hope that at some point a game with ~50 characters and a Melee feel comes along that even causes diehards to give Sakurai a round of applause. The multiple character is idea is a fine one... Maybe up to 5 characters in honor of it being Smash 5. :D

Are you a fan of tag team fighters that slowly heal the teammates after being tagged out?

 

[courte]

if its the last one, Ill play smash 4 and it's rebalanced mod til I'm dead. I'll only ever stop playing melee if I'm blind and have arthritis

 

[Laserbeamed]

Maybe you can pick up on audio clues and play even blind like that guy who plays Mortal Kombat without sight.

 

[courte]

Oh without a doubt if I only go blind I'm still playing. Only that combination will stop me.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Or, will we very soon? Assuming no one wants to play a Smash Bros. that is slower/more defensive than the slowest/most defensive to date and every game other than that one will be faster and more offensive, when will enough be enough? Obviously they will keep making the series forever because it is amazing, but we are developing a fairly nice spread of experiences already. Brawl to 4 to Melee (not sure where the 64 version fits in because I am a noob and haven't looked into it) is a decent range of speed options, and we're getting to the point where there are tons of characters per game. Hopefully we will have so many viable characters per game that we will be more satisfied sticking to that game (8 games into the series, are we really going to hold events for all 8 games in tourneys?).

If 4 ends up being between Melee and Brawl in terms of speed, there is no good reason for Smash 5 to not approach the speed of Melee. At least none that my scrub mind can come up with. I realize the games are more nuanced than just speed (something can be as fast as Melee and feel off to people for other reasons), but I have high hopes for 4 and 5 being "all we need." And then the other games would be niche experiences people hold tourneys for now and then. It might not end up being that way, but it's an interesting topic to think about.

What do you think? If you're going to throw tomatoes at me, make them Maxim.

Can humans breathe in space?

 

[nessokman]

Smash 64 doesn't exist, Melee is love, Melee is life.

 

[Jiggy37]

@ Jiggy37 Yeah, pretty much. More specifically, I am wondering if 4 will render Brawl pointless (almost a complete overshadowing to where people do not even want to play Brawl unless their character didn't make the sequel) and if a Smash 5, if done right, would make Melee people foam at the mouth and drop Melee. So Smash 5 for the ultra competitive and Smash 4 for a scene that is competitive just not /quite/ as in intense. I have no doubt some people will play Melee when their grandkids are 40 but I hope that at some point a game with ~50 characters and a Melee feel comes along that even causes diehards to give Sakurai a round of applause.

Well, we all hope for such a thing. Still, if Street Fighter II, III, and IV can all have simultaneous competitive scenes, then Melee, Smash 4, and Smash 5 could too. I do agree that Brawl's pretty much out as soon as Smash 4 hits.

The multiple character is idea is a fine one... Maybe up to 5 characters in honor of it being Smash 5. :D

Are you a fan of tag team fighters that slowly heal the teammates after being tagged out?

I'm a fan, but I'm guessing that Sakurai isn't since he took away character transformations. That's why I proposed the system I did, just switch after a death instead of right in the middle of a match. That and the fact that some characters are just too good at camping in Smash, so healing while tagged out would run a serious risk of being overpowered.

 

[DukeofShorts]

They should do a HD collection of 64, melee, and brawl. But that would probably never happen.

 

[Laserbeamed]

Yeah camping was a consideration when I tried to think of how slow healing would work. What if the healing stopped if you didn't hit the opponent and/or they didn't hit you in the last 30 seconds?

 

[ImaClubYou]

I'm gonna laugh if the next console, the Super Wii U Gamecube Entertainment System, confirmed name, has a GameCube controller adaptor or even just come equipped with GameCube support.

Don't get me wrong, I'll love it.... But I'm still gonna laugh.

One controller for 20 years people. That's all we need. When I become a old man and watch my grand kids play Smash Brothers 10, I can still recognize what they're using and BEAT DAT ASS MERCILESSLY.