schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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Because with less hitstun they can jump out earlier. Meaning jumping out before they fall into grab range.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
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schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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The top is guaranteed upthrow percents
The bottom is percents where they can jump out before they hit the ground with a dthrow.
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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Ye thats right 
Max?
Smash Champion
Btw, won a big melee tourney this past weekend. A bunch of footage was recorded, I'll post vids when they are up.
Zonak
Smash Cadet
I'll make sure that Frycook gets those vids up asap. I need to learn how to fight Falco and you beating Son2 is def gonna help that.
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the vids'll be good to watch if you want an example of how not to play vs fox directly followed by how to play vs fox
Cursed Yoma
Smash Journeyman
for info about doc doubles *tho it may be a litlte old* check the first few pages of this thread; it started out as doc doubles talk..
i'm starting to play more falcon and fox now trying to work on better secondaries cause doc/mewtwo just isn't cutting it agaisnt people now a days.
i'm starting to play more falcon and fox now trying to work on better secondaries cause doc/mewtwo just isn't cutting it agaisnt people now a days.
Max?
Smash Champion
Haha the good old days. I remember starting this thread when the Doc boards were dead, and this was the only place people ever talked. How it's evolved *tear*.
Anyway, don't listen to Yedi, he's a ****ing hater and loses to me even tho his Doc is so much better than mine. Jk I'm the best.
Kettleman
Smash Rookie
Hello there my fellow Dr. Mario players, I have a curious question for you. At my local tourneys I have been having problems with spacing, especially against ganon and marth. Honestly I need to fix this problem soon because I feel like the match up is hopless and it causes me to miss essential edgeguards and capes in game. Thx
Cursed Yoma
Smash Journeyman
Could you be more specific? Why are you missing the cape? Too early? Too late ? Does marth sweet spot?
Capin marth can be hard ganon is iffy. If you don't think you can cape just try grabbing edge and punish landing lag. Ledge hop fair good choice. Bair good against them too esp ganon. Marth can be tricky to hit but definitely possible
Capin marth can be hard ganon is iffy. If you don't think you can cape just try grabbing edge and punish landing lag. Ledge hop fair good choice. Bair good against them too esp ganon. Marth can be tricky to hit but definitely possible
Kettleman
Smash Rookie
For me missing the cape I keep jumping too high or capping too late (because I continuously believe that it comes out as fast as a shine which it doesn't), also I have trouble getting around marths range, I'm not sure what options Dr. Mario has for approaching.
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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There isn't any need to cape those 2 offstage, both can be done standing next to the ledge. Ganon is a slow target but he has a few tricks to survive a cape, bair is actually a much easier and less hassle edgeguard on him imo, I only cape if i don't have time to bair.
Caping marth took me the longest to learn, as the spacing is quite precise, you gotta get him at max range.
Marth is a ***** lol, you need to use your movement to weave in and out, bait stuff from him, try to get him to hit your shield, then as soon as you see an opening to get in, you go and do your damage. Wavedash OOS is a pretty crucial tech in this matchup.
Caping marth took me the longest to learn, as the spacing is quite precise, you gotta get him at max range.
Marth is a ***** lol, you need to use your movement to weave in and out, bait stuff from him, try to get him to hit your shield, then as soon as you see an opening to get in, you go and do your damage. Wavedash OOS is a pretty crucial tech in this matchup.
Max?
Smash Champion
I like to bair ganon offstage and keep folllowing him. The second he upbs, I cape. Guaranteed kill everytime. Ganon is free, just gota stay mobile and pill spam.
EXCITE!!!!
Smash Cadet
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- Jan 18, 2015
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Help, has anyone found a way to recover with doc??
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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throw pills. mix it up
What do you guys think about otto-cancelled waveland? Never thought about it before, but it's the fastest way to get to and then act on a platform, even faster then upair ai. It is limited though, as you have to waveland forwards and can act once at the edge. But if that's where you want to go, thats not a problem. It's pretty easy to do a smash attack or grab as fast as possible, tilts are a bit harder, but it's also easy to dash out of it.
edit: just realised otto-cancelled upair ai, would actually be 1 frame faster. But it's a lot easier to waveland as you lose a lot of momentum with the ai.
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otto cancel?
and so according to your movement guide, if keys perfect wavedashed instead of ran more often here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1JBTPm5VCA he could save time?
and so according to your movement guide, if keys perfect wavedashed instead of ran more often here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1JBTPm5VCA he could save time?
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
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yeah definitely, he can safe time on zebes escape with upair ai and otto-canccelled wavelands too. I can imagine the reason why he hasnt done that already is because its complete rng, so he wouldnt want to ruin a potential wr by ****ing up a waveland or something.
otto-otto is the state where you are right at the edge, i think some people call it teetering. if you move to an edge you will cancel all landing lag, like an edgecancel, but to stay on and go into otto you must not hold forward.
otto-otto is the state where you are right at the edge, i think some people call it teetering. if you move to an edge you will cancel all landing lag, like an edgecancel, but to stay on and go into otto you must not hold forward.
nope
You could just play doc regardless, especially if you like his playstyle. I only play him because I think he's fun to play, you don't really need an excuse to pick up a lower tier secondary if you enjoy playing the character.
yea thats the conclusion Ive come to
now just gotta decide between doc and mario
I like Mario more aesthetically and as a character but I dont want to be necessarily handicapping myself between the two when they are both already fairly low tier and since the cape is a major reason Im wanting to play them since Doc's is better I guess I better go with Doc
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Zonak
Smash Cadet
Mario and Doc excel at different things. Depending on the mu, Mario will have better or worse punishes out of dthrow (For example, on Sheik, Mario can cover DI out with fsmash while Doc can't) and Mario's initial hit of nair is better than Doc's so you can follow up better with it out of dthrow. Mario also has better combo potential and combo starters with Fair being a meteor and his aerials having less landing lag than Doc's. Mario just struggles to get a kill without sweetspot fsmash and edgeguarding is trickier due to the angle of his bair.
That was exactly my opinion when I needed to pick a main between the two. You're really not putting yourself at much more of a disadvantage by playing Mario over doc. (Unless its a matchup like Puff). I picked Doc as my main using your logic, with Luigi and Mario as secondaries.
Sometimes I wish I went with Mario because top tier mario play is so sexy. Doc is still one of the coolest characters IMO, but all of the Mario bros are damn fun to play.
Doc's cape and pills compared to Mario are both better and worse in different situations. Generally speaking, Doc's pills are seen overall as a good bit better than fireballs. The trajectory of the pills, and the height that they travel with that good angle make the pills superior for spacing, spamming, recovering etc.
Mario's cape is better for recovery as he gains some horizontal distance but it is slower. Doc's cape is better for edgeguarding as it can reach beneath the stage to hit the enemy. It's also faster and (for me at least) easier to time when gimping.
EXCITE!!!!
Smash Cadet
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What happens if I have problems using the pills to recover? Do they giv horizontal distance? Do I stop di-ing while throwing a pill? I am new to trying to play doc, and I have noticed his great moves, but I seriously need help channeling them into combos and recovery. Any tips?
Max?
Smash Champion
Hey guys, I'll be streaming tonight with PC Chris on his channel. Give us a watch tonight, we'll be starting within the next two hours.
Share, support, enjoy!
Twitch.tv/pcchris
Share, support, enjoy!
Twitch.tv/pcchris
Sir Bubbles
Smash Journeyman
Pills do not give you distance what so ever, but they're insanely useful in a recovery situation.
When you use a pill mid-air, you do not stop moving in whatever direction you where moving before that (Example, if I were thrown off-stage to the right, I'd move my analog to the left, let go, and then pill.)
Be familiar with the trajectory, then you'll be able to lead up to combos after a pill. Plus, they're good for racking up damage on hard to approach characters (Especially against Fox and Falcon.)
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Max?
Smash Champion
Dsmash, fsmash, fair for KO's, sending people offstage for edgeguards
Usmash, grab, uair for combos and stuff
Sorry guys, no stream tonight. Issues with the recording setup and melee and johns. I'll def post when we are running 100%
EXCITE!!!!
Smash Cadet
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Do they at least provide a slower fall? I tried using the cape, which provides slight horizontal distance, but I still recovered far worse than those who use pills. Why is that? Do I have to alternate between using the joystick and the b button to use them in mid air, or are there any other methods?
watch armada (and shroomed) tech chase, they have ways to set up tech chase situations where they can cover 3 out of 4 tech options on reaction. (usually you can do this by dashing in a way that'll let you cover the tech in place, but if they tech in a specific direction, you can still react and reach that with a dash dance.. it's a lil more nuanced than this)
if armada can tech chase fairly consistently with a character that slow, then doc can do it.
all docs moves are applicable
if armada can tech chase fairly consistently with a character that slow, then doc can do it.
all docs moves are applicable
Sir Bubbles
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, you would have to alternate between the joystick in the b button. It may seem hard, but you can most definitely get it down in one play session with enough practice. I used to have a similar issue, but after having figured it out, I never turned back.
EXCITE!!!!
Smash Cadet
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Okay thank you, doc is my secondary right now, and I am having trouble short hopping with him, it is harder to get it down than with other character?
Sir Bubbles
Smash Journeyman
Nah, Fox is the absolute hardest, followed by Pichu.
Doc's short hop is really easy. Just quickly tap Y on your controller (Y is the best jumping option IMO)
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Smash Cadet
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Haha lol he isn't as easy as link 