Does anyone else feel Sheik is close to her limit?

[False Soundz]

Maybe it's just me but I feel Sheik is either at her peak or very close to it.

What I mean by that is, for example, Diddy's meta game changes like once a week. He has new tech's being discovered, new combo's, new discoveries all the time

But when we look at Sheik she's just the same old Sheik as she always has been for a while. Nothing new is being discovered.

Don't get me wrong, I love Sheik, I'm just asking if anyone else feels like Sheik is becoming a bit stale?

 

[East]

Keep the fire burnin

I'm not trying to sound like a smart *** when I say this, but have done anything to try and find something new with sheik? The metagame only changes when the players who represent that character use new ways of thinking to further the use of their character.

If you haven't tried anything new, then I would expect sheik to be getting stale. You can't expect different results from the same kind of thinking. Currently there are very few people trying to enhance sheiks metagame, so if you would love to help, pick up your sticks and get crackin.

I'm not trying to disagree with you or defend sheik as a character, because I understand that things are a bit stagnant at this point. You should also take into consideration, that the community here is pretty smart when it comes to delving into the mechanics of smash quickly. Once all of diddy has been explored, you'll just have the same problem as well.

In summation, I think it's really all up to the player as to how you keep the fire lit. If sheik isn't advancing enough for you, there are tons of other characters to try and pick up to supplement her, or you could try help advancing the metagame as well.

 

[imdavid]

Well if you think Sheik is very limited, that's because maybe you're playing her as limited. Sheik's very bottom mid tier, she doesn't have many options to begin with. But like in melee, Sheik's strongest point is being able to adjust on the fly.

 

[legion598]

well i do think shieks discoveries are winding down but im expecting her to jump up quite a few tiers

 

[colored blind]

Sheik's potential doesn't come from her techniques or abilities, but how players apply the basics of the fundamental game mechanics against the opponent. Sheik's good at this, and while she may not have that many character specific ATs, she's got a good base in the basics of Brawl that one could greatly improve on through practice and patience.

 

[Tristan_win]

Funny.... One of the main reasons I main Sheik is because I feel I have no limits when I use her.

Anyways yes Sheik is more or less done. I doubt anything "new" that is going to be found will be seen as "big" instead what we should be doing is focusing on what we do know about sheik and expending are knowledge in those fields instead of trying to find "new" stuff. We need to apply the basic, the ATs, and the advance level of play mechanics on a much wider spectrum then we are now.

Such things like the chain,counting ftilts into usmash and of course DACUS ^_^ is what I've been forcing on mostly

Another thing we need to do is compile a list of things sheik can shield and counter attack with a ftilt and or a jab combo.

Sheik has all the tools she needs to win in almost every match up in the game (**** ice climbers and such) we just need to refine those tools and become better at using them.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sheik is a good character.

F-tilt juggles to 50% that end with U-smash. Needles are gay. Good edgeguarding. Grab release F-tilt and Up-smash. Using her in conjunction with Zelda is very good.

Also against characters with few options when heading to the ground like Snake, try Up-Bing. There is a certain height where if Snake does *insert aerial* or air dodges, Sheik will be invincible as he comes down and the Up-B should hit him reliably. This can really help compensate for her low KO power in the right matchups.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Completely agree with Tristan. Not discovering many new AT's does not mean a character is becoming stale, indeed it might help us focus abit more on the fundamentals. Too many times do you hear complete noobs trying to DACUS when they cant even space properly. Shiek has a huge amount of unperfected potential.
For example, she has a 2 frame attack as a response to anything close quarters (Jab and N Air), how many people do you see taking advantage of this? How many people do you see abusing their F Tilt enough that they can guaranteed tipper U Smash (Ryoko doesn't count <_<), something that will most likely be a staple later on.
The point is, Shiek is a very flexible character and she can adapt to pretty much any situation, something very important in Brawl as a whole and no amount of AT's will change that.
Also bear in mind we are nearing a year of playing Brawl, a game which has been literally disected by thousands of people to find what's going on. It's not just Shiek who's running out of new things, it's most of the cast, Diddy's Single Naner Lock is just one of those rare things that wasn't found yet.

*I think that was my 1000th post, woot!*

 

[YagamiLight]

"Limited" is the last word that comes to my mind when I think of Sheik, she's a very versatile and "free" character and I find her versatility is only expanded by having an equally good character, a paper tank, available at the push of a button. The pair is not some perfect, invincible duo, but they shore up each others' small minor issues. Not having your metagame expand every minute (Although Sheik made has had quite a few things discovered) does not make your character any less versatile, it is the base that counts and ATs expand upon it.

tl;dr Sheik is good and versatile, Sheik + Zelda is even better and more versatile.

Of course, I main Ike (And have decided upon Zelda/Sheik as a sole secondary in case I'm in a rut) and I actually don't feel limited at all with him. Each character is what you make of them. If all you do is Ftilt lock and needles and switch to Zelda for a generic kill, even a free spirit like Sheik is going to feel limited.

 

[mateo101]

shiek is a ninja

 

[TLMSheikant]

Well, sheik is not limited at all. And remember that diddy may have the new single naner lock. But, if u didnt know sheik can also do it to him. So that kinda counts as a new AT for her too.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Sheik is somewhat limited in my opinion, but the only reason I don't like playing with her is because you have to get your opponent to a ridiculously high % before you can KO them, unless you get a Usmash on them, which can be at times very difficult.

 

[Palpi]

Like Light said. Shiek and Zelda are both good and versatile. But there is so many ways to keep damage racking with shiek then her "bread and butter." And zelda is a very unique character, and being both of them, there should be endless possibilities with the combined metagame.

 

[False Soundz]

I wish I could change the meta game, thing is I'm not that good at thinking abstractly in these sort of cases. I think inside the box, not outside.

I'm not using her in a limited fashion, I'm using everything that you can think of, DACUS, ftilt lock to upsmash, ftilts to nair to upsmash tippers, needles, chain, etc.

It's just when I think of the future with sheik I really don't see her being appreciated as much as other characters. Basically I see her being respected and looked at the same way in the future as she is now.

And yeah, I agree with you Tristan, room for improvement is always there.

What I meant by limited was that she's at her limit for AT's. Not actually the spectrum of her basic-advanced gameplay.

 

[colored blind]

Of. Well then, I'd bet you're right. I doubt many new ATs are going to surface for Sheik. She doesn't have anything particularly weird or glitchy about her to produce more ATs.

Sheik is somewhat limited in my opinion, but the only reason I don't like playing with her is because you have to get your opponent to a ridiculously high % before you can KO them, unless you get a Usmash on them, which can be at times very difficult.

Then you're doing it wrong. Ftilt combos into Usmash on most characters if decayed enough, and DownB is definitely part of Sheik's moveset. Zelda and Sheik complement each other very well in this game if you can play them both.

 

[demodemo]

sheik has a lot of options

decayed ftilt, gimping, transform, are all viable methods of sheik play. mastering all three plus general sheik ability is necessary to reach her peak. then you can mix it up during matches, opening up more options then you can with other characters.

simply put, there are not enough sheik players (or videos of sheik) to showcase most of the stuff we already know, so it main seem very limited. but rest assured, she is not. i once thought she was lmited as well, so you just need to play more. remember, this is brawl, everybody character was limited somewhat right when sakurai crossed "hit-stun" out of his to-do list

 

[K 2]

G&W is currently like this. His metagame has grinded to a halt, partly because he's not a very technical character, so not many new techniques are being discovered. We have started a thread to incite new discussion. Try something like that here, create a thread to challenge the old ways, see what works and what doesn't. You might find something new in the process.

 

[Palpi]

You don't have to "try" to find glitches or AT's. I think this has been found, but unknown by me...

We were goofing off in a 3 person ffa and I vanished, and when i teleported, the smoked stopped all damage and knock back of a fsmash. Thougt I think it has been found before I just was messing around and something happened.. just play a lot.

Also a great idea from K 2 btw.

 

[KRDsonic]

One of the main reasons I love using Sheik is because she feels unlimited to me. She doesn't need many ATs to do what she needs to do. She's easy to use (IMO), adapts quickly, doesn't have too much trouble killing (well, not for me anyways, especially with her Down B).

Though I guess I'm odd, I feel very limited with Ice Climbers, and I feel like I can do anything I want with Sheik. Her fast speed gives her quite a bit of posibilities.

 

[False Soundz]

I see now, basically it's a matter of opinion, nobody can really tell me that Sheik is limited or not, it just depends on how each of you feel.

I just wanted to see if anyone felt like me. I'm starting to see everyone's point. In future we'll see what happens. Even if it's for the worse or the best.

 

[-Mars-]

We were goofing off in a 3 person ffa and I vanished, and when i teleported, the smoked stopped all damage and knock back of a fsmash. Thougt I think it has been found before I just was messing around and something happened.. just play a lot.

I think you just now discovered Vanish' wind effect.

 

[Palpi]

It has to be opinion. Opinion is the reason I play Ike and Shiek and marth and some random other guy plays olimar and jiggs.

If you still like shiek, try to advance your style of play maybe not through a technical aspect but through mindgames, spacing, and timing. Progression doesn't always mean sheer technical ability it could be how and when you use her abilities too.

I think you just now discovered Vanish' wind effect.

The funny thing is, that when I used vanish, it didn't only protect me. It protected my friend playing yoshi.

It actually did to damage, but the vanished stopped the knock back.

 

[False Soundz]

I see, I think I've given the wrong idea from the title of this thread. I'll rename it. I didn't mean limited in options of play, I meant limited in progression in the future.

 

[Palpi]

Well, east has just graced us with a possible lock of some sort.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209303

Shows a new foot stool lock.

 

[False Soundz]

Yeah, I just posted on his thread. A lock isn't really necessarily, if anyone has anything to say they should still say it.

I happen to take someone's words and just splash them all over my gameplay sometimes.

 

[East]

Graced? More like mooched from innocentroads and Tristan. If you're looking for sheik innovators, those are your people.

 

[Palpi]

Oh whoops. My bad! I just watched your video and your post didn't mean to falsely state that.

 

[slickmasterizzy]

haha maybe the meta game will improve when the majority of shiek players stop being stubborn and accept their dress wearing hamburger loving other side

 

[Tristan_win]

I could more or less say the same thing about dacus, chain usage, and counting ftilts into usmash and restraint on using kill moves.

I've found Sheik can kill just fine enough on her own(with the exception of two or three heavy characters) and since Zelda doesn't have the tools to either stop camping or approach in general I find myself taking large amounts of damage and at times even death when I change in battle.

Something I've notice when playing with Zelda is that if you start a match as Zelda people don't tend to camp for the whole match. The reason for this is because they wish to have fun and even though they are playing to win they wish to win in a fashion that is enjoyable to some degree....However this is not the case when you transform for the kill. When you transform to kill a smart opponent will realize that if you hit them once they will die and that it's time to play it more safe or campy.

 

[Flamingo]

Something I've notice when playing with Zelda is that if you start a match as Zelda people don't tend to camp for the whole match. The reason for this is because they wish to have fun and even though they are playing to win they wish to win in a fashion that is enjoyable to some degree....However this is not the case when you transform for the kill. When you transform to kill a smart opponent will realize that if you hit them once they will die and that it's time to play it more safe or campy.

So you've noticed too... It's really annoying. Like really. While I'm trying to lure to an Utilt, they just stay back and use ranged attacks, where they would fight me up close on the other hand if I were Sheik. (I mean it's not surprising, i would do it too, just aggravating. haha)

 

[Karttibone]

I think Sheik is a real surprise char. My friend always ***** me with Zelda and I began to dislike her (now I have some strats), but then I discovered Sheik. I was just like "wow amazing"!
I think her moves suit straight minded persons very well, cause her main game is A attack.
I think there's a lot which can be improved on there just has to be some interest.

 

[Villi]

I like to gay up my Sheik a little with the B moves.

 

[choknater]

hm, surprise invincibility with ground vanish is a fun KO option

i go for it a lot more now

 

[Flamingo]

Vanish kills are my signature kill move. I luves them.

Uhhh. And on-topic with the thread. I think Sheik will be getting close to her limit if the mods keep locking the threads like the one Blistering Speed made... stupid mods... *cough*

 

[Zankoku]

Uh, just make a thread if you think of something you'd like to share >_>

No big loss.

 

[Flamingo]

Okay, like I got a question answered in that thread in the first few seconds that it was made and thought it had some real promise, like was it just closed because of the half that was dedicated to general discussion and not metagame? If so, I think we should have a thread for metagame FOR SHEIK... thats just me though... kind of an advanced discussion of the Sheik/Zelda thread for ideas and experimenting with some of Sheik's gameplay... especially the situational stuff that could lead to new discoveries and whatnot.