Does talent/natural skill exist in Smash?

[Siglemic]

Discuss.**

 

[Strong Badam]

Yes .

 

[JPOBS]

Define natural

i dont see how any video game related skill could be "natural" considering all skill in video games is developed from gaining experience and knowing the best solution to every situation. Thats not natural skill, thats just skill.

natural skill would be if a player who never played before watched a match of m2k vs mango, then picked up the controller, and beat both of them.

wont happen, "natural" skill doesnt exist in melee cuz there arent any physical or genetic advantages.

however, you could be physically strong or fast by nature

talent is just a combination of experience and practice. anyone could have talent

 

[LLDL]

Some players take years to advance just a little. Some can jump to high levels of play in a matter of months without much tourney experience. It depends on the individual player.

 

[Solaris1110]

no, people dont have smash genes in their dna LOL.

 

[Tranzworld]

no, people dont have smash genes in their dna LOL.

-_- I'm probably walking into a troll here but seriously? No, there's not genes for that, but there ARE for faster reactions, better abillity to repeat certain actions, and various other things that could make someone more inclined to smash.

Although technically i think those wouldn't be genes but rather how it was learned...well, never mind. This is an age old debate :/

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Well I think it depends on the mind and rarly the fingers(if they can go fast). Someone people can't control themselfs or are slower at learning and adapting. But if you can mess with peoples' minds than yes you should have a head start

 

[Siglemic]

Define natural

i dont see how any video game related skill could be "natural" considering all skill in video games is developed from gaining experience and knowing the best solution to every situation. Thats not natural skill, thats just skill.

natural skill would be if a player who never played before watched a match of m2k vs mango, then picked up the controller, and beat both of them.

wont happen, "natural" skill doesnt exist in melee cuz there arent any physical or genetic advantages.

however, you could be physically strong or fast by nature

talent is just a combination of experience and practice. anyone could have talent

That's not what talent means at all. Talent is your ability to pick up a certain skill/art faster than others.

Video game related skills in my opinion can be natural because your ability to read other players doesn't come solely from experience. Some people no matter how hard they try are just slower at learning to pick up other's habits and playstyles. This is why some players adapt better than others.

Also, some people's fingers can naturally move faster than other's, and I'd really like to see you try to deny that.

 

[Nihonjin]

talent is just a combination of experience and practice. anyone could have talent

Not quite. Talent isn't your experience and/or practice, it's how much those two things affect your actual skill.

In MMO/RPG terms, talent is the amount of EXP you gain and your maximum level cap.

That's why some people play this game for 5 years and train nearly every day, only to lose a tournament to a guy who picked up the game a month ago.

 

[JPOBS]

That's not what talent means at all. Talent is your ability to pick up a certain skill/art faster than others.

Video game related skills in my opinion can be natural because your ability to read other players doesn't come solely from experience. Some people no matter how hard they try are just slower at learning to pick up other's habits and playstyles. This is why some players adapt better than others.

Also, some people's fingers can naturally move faster than other's, and I'd really like to see you try to deny that.

even if im wrogn about what talent is specifically, i still believe it exists and pretty much everyone has it, maybe to different degrees, but the question was whether it exists and i agreed that it did.

the ability to read other players comes from experience and experience alone. "reading" someone typically comes from knowing what their best/most logical option would be in any given situation, cover that option, and in the event they chose to take that option, then you hit them, if not, lucky them. also, "reading" any particular person in any particular match requires at least SOME experience vs said person, even if its just one match. Say u play someone for one game and you notice they always tech away, from your experience of watching them tech away, you start to "read" that tech next game and **** them for it. thats not a "natural" side effect, its just you having gained experience vs them to know how they play even if it was remarkably fast.

also, some people's fingers move faster than others...whats your point? nothing practical in this game is remotely difficult to a seasoned player. Sure there are some stupidly hard and not very applicable techniques, but anything worth knowing how to do can be learned and put into muscle memory by pretty much anyone. Being able to naturally move your fingers lsightly faster is barely an advantage in smash. And no one can just pick up a controller and waveshine without practicing it first. However, lots of people can be faster/stronger than you without any training at all.

I think people like to throw around the idea of skill or talent being natural because they like to glamourize the idea. theres no such thing a natural skill in video games. You cant just happen to be skilled at a game, to many other external factors go into it.


sorry if this didnt make any sense i kinda just threw it together right before sleep lol

edit: and just incase i was ambiguous, imo, talent is not the same thing as natural ability. talent can be learned, gained, improved, lost, forgotten, and taught.
i dont really see how any of those things can be applied to 'natural skill", except maybe improve, but when u improve on something natural, it becomes a talent so meh.

 

[unknown522]

Definitely takes natural skill.

You can also get good by just abusing really gay things about the game.

 

[joeplicate]

it exists for sure

i think that there are just about no insurmountable barriers, though

practice/experience counts for a LOT in my opinion
you might not be the next mango, but you can be the next zhu/hbox/m2k

 

[Proverbs]

If you've ever played KDJ, you know natural skill exists.

 

[Stratford]

Yes and its name is Moose.

But yea natural skill exists. Sure everyone needs to practice and get experience but some players improve much faster and reach a higher potential. It's like IVs.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Of course.

There's a reason no one can match Mang0.

 

[wool]

Yes.

Spoiler

What kind of threads are these.

 

[Archangel]

Yea. Not in the sense that natural talent exists in sports and such but. There is a kind of Mindset, Coordination you need to play Melee.

Some people take years to reach a kind of mastery. Others will reach the top level of play inside 3-4 months.

Still I think there is a kinda Rock-Lee effect. Continual play and dedication can get you far enough.

 

[cykofox]

yeah im pretty sure it does. to be honest with you, the only person I can ever see beating mango would be kdj with some practice.

 

[joeplicate]

mango has also gotten super far because of his dedication to the game

even after he won pound 3, he still played and practiced constantly to get where he's at

at the point where m2k stopped trying/played brawl, mango was still trying his heart out at every smashfest



sometimes i think that "talent" in smash bros is just having the right attitude and dedication towards the game early on, it can take you a long way

 

[Oracle]

Melee has no natural skill. That's why to me it's so appealing. Everyone starts from even ground and works their way up, as opposed to things like sports where your natural size ultimately determines how good you can be.

Mango isn't some prodigy. He just worked his *** of to get where he is now. Your skill in melee is determined by how much work you put into the game.

 

[Proverbs]

^Not true. Some people are naturally more creative, more intuitive, or just have quicker/more precise fingers. That's just reality. My friend and I go pretty darn even with one another. We both main Falcon, and yet we beat each other for different reasons. He's really good at focusing on what he needs to do and doing it very accurately. However, I'm very good at being extremely creative and doing things that no one expects to work, and pulling it off. We both have natural skill, but in different areas. You can't learn creativity. You can learn that you need to be creative, but some people naturally go toward it more easily than others.

Here's an example of someone who can be naturally better at Melee: One person is a very intelligent and creative person that has very precise hands. The other person is mentally deficient. The first person is naturally better than the second and if they both practice the same amount, the first person WILL be better. There are many people who practice all the time and never get any better. I've seen threads pop up from a lot of people about how they hit a road block despite how much they play and practice and get advice and watch videos. One person said they played around 14 hours a day. That person is NOT Mango, or even a memorable smasher. I don't even remember his name. But some people are just naturally better than others.

Take my friend for example. He's naturally better than I am. I have played more often, against more people, and against better people than him. For a long time he just played against level 9 CPUs and at the end of his time at UMass Amherst he finally found some people to play. When we came back over the summer, he was better than me. Now, I don't know how it is now, I've changed my mindset a good deal and maybe through playing a bit more I've gotten better than him. But at that point, the cold hard fact was that he put in less effort and was still winning. Why was that? Natural skill.

 

[Archangel]

Melee has no natural skill. That's why to me it's so appealing. Everyone starts from even ground and works their way up, as opposed to things like sports where your natural size ultimately determines how good you can be.

Mango isn't some prodigy. He just worked his *** of to get where he is now. Your skill in melee is determined by how much work you put into the game.

That is 1-half of it. What about people with unusually small hands or unusually big hands. What about People with thinner faster fingers and people with Slower fatter fingers? Someone made a joke about it but thinking it over I think Genes can play a role in winning or losing. Even if it's just by a razor thin line. Still I think the Mental aspect of the game can make of for the differences most of the time. All in all people who put in more work will be better. I just think More work plus natural talent beats Hard work plus Natural disadvantage. That's just my opinion in Sports and in games.

 

[weon - X]

people that feel not much pressure at tournaments, thats plays a big role in gaming, i allways choke but not like i used to cause i have more experience

 

[Archangel]

people that feel not much pressure at tournaments, thats plays a big role in gaming, i allways choke but not like i used to cause i have more experience

Also very true. People who develop a kind of ataraxia or calmness during serious events tend to do much better when something is on the line.

 

[ZoSo]

sometimes i think that "talent" in smash bros is just having the right attitude and dedication towards the game early on, it can take you a long way

To the people referencing KDJ: This is exactly why he got so good.

The only other thing you need is people to play.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

If by skill you mean a certain mindset on how you play, then yeah, Melee does require some degree of skill. But what do i know, i only started playing srsly this year..

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes, there is some degree of talent for Video games, however, it is not necissarly the mind set others here are talking about. Its the same skill that let's some draw, and others scribble, some play the piano, and others fuddle with their fingers, some rip a guitar, others rip a string. It is dexterity.

 

[Vulcan55]

Yes, obviously.
It's an activity that takes skill and learning.
Some people do that faster than others.
Like a math class. Some people pick up stuff the first time it's explained, some people still don't quite get it even after you're tested on it.

 

[Moooose]

lol obvioiusly theres natural talent in smash, theres natural talent in every thing

 

[Nihonjin]

Mango isn't some prodigy. He just worked his *** of to get where he is now. Your skill in melee is determined by how much work you put into the game.

Yes he is.

There are people who've played this game longer than Mango has and put in more effort than he does, yet would quite easily get 4 stocked by him.

 

[CRASHiC]

When did Mango start entering tournaments?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yes, some people have certain traits which may help give them an edge over other players.

Also, while I do agree that Mango has some natural talent, I wouldn't go as far as to say that he is a prodigy. He didn't start off where he is, he got there.

 

[Johnknight1]

Having extreme natural reflexes, adapting to different sitautions, & learning how to get "used" to the game are probably genetic traits (especially the 1st).

However, skills must first be learned & applied before any natural instincts, skills, or super fast reflexes kick in. In other words, you have to be dedicated to be Mango...


...or a Jigglypuff main...

 

[Proverbs]

To the people referencing KDJ: This is exactly why he got so good.

False. He's Asian.

 

[Archangel]

False. He's Asian.

Wrong. That means he's good at math and likely uses or will use Extenze. That has nothing to do with smash bros.

 

[CRASHiC]

Asians would probably be great at Smash, they are probably just too busy playing Street Fighter.

 

[Siglemic]

Asians would probably be great at Smash, they are probably just too busy playing Street Fighter.

and starcraft

 

[NES n00b]

There is no equivalent exchange in practice even in a show like Full Metal Alchemist where that was a central theme. There is more than just practicing, there is also practicing the right things (which takes a certain state of mind to figure out). Even between two people with the same amount of practice and the same type of practice some people understand concepts better than others overall or just different ones. Not to mention factoring in natural reaction time, certain finger dexterity, hand eye coordination, and a better understanding detecting patterns including doing it faster and changing ones patterns.

In other words, yes. This can't be denied that some people just improve faster than others and it is not always because of just practice. They have an easier time understanding what to do and their hands can keep up with their understanding.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Natural talent definitely exists, but it's also definitely not the only factor into your skill level. Dedication, practicing the right things, and who you play with also factors into it (I think who you play with is really really really important, but some people seem to overlook it)

 

[joeplicate]

To the people referencing KDJ: This is exactly why he got so good.

The only other thing you need is people to play.

i talked with hugs about this awhile ago on aim
he said there's like a "triforce of improvement"
it's natural talent, having the right mindset, and hard work

ken = natural talent (shikamaru)
m2k = hard work (rock lee)

mango has all 3 of these in spades
then he said kdj was like a mini mango, with all 3 of these things
it's a **** shame he stopped playing though

there could be more to this, though
it's just a theory after all