Does the level 9 CPU adapt to situation in a match?

[gojira345]

I think it's got some minor approach differences, but I think someone with a camera should do nothing but one type of kill over and over in mirror matches and record it, and after every KO crouch taunt, and replay the match 10 times to test it.

If the comp does what I think it does, it records all your button presses 10 seconds before and after a KO or edgegaurd.

I've noticed when the game came out they NEVER hogged edges. Now they do it occasionally, but only if I am practically doing the exact same recovery that I hogged them on.

 

[XienZo]

What if instead of a crouch taunt, you do something more complicated, like mortar-sliding, or ISJR? If a CPU did that, it'd definintly show that something is going on....

 

[gojira345]

I don't know, my Snake cpu, after seeing me Mortarslide a bit dashes forward and then comes to a dead halt to up smash instantly with no slide as if to obey the rules intended....weird.

However, the spamming of any move should be copied. I guess we should all just try it out.

 

[XienZo]

Oh, huh... maybe thats because CPUs use up-A to smash, and you need to do up-Z to mortar slide. Well, there's always ISJRing, which is just aerial>jump>aerial>jump.

 

[Serris]

I can off a level-9 Sonic in three seconds with Zelda and it still hasn't gotten used to it.

 

[Ykoahi]

i learned to DAC on link, i used it a few times and the comps started doing it, but not on link but on sonic and snake o.o

i have D3 crouch taunt also.

 

[gojira345]

Yeah, I think your Zelda would try the same thing on your Sonic, and I think if you keep countering that as Sonic it may start doing better against your fire spam or whatever you are doing, but only if you hit the exact same buttons.

 

[Morrigan]

I've had some times where they appeared to be edgehogging, but that can easily be attributed to a conflict in their AI making them jump off to attack but at the same time get on the stage to be safe. Or something like that.

They do edgehog now. I've seen it plenty of times.

 

[gojira345]

We really need someone with the capabilities to post a good test vid.

 

[Clai]

I was playing in a match with three of them for the hell of it and when one killed me all three paused and taunted, the *******s.

Same story, but in the event where you have to kill around 15 Sonics with Sonic in Green Hill Zone. One CPU Sonic kills me and all three of them decided to do "YOU'RE TOO SLOW!" At the same time. Friggin' Sonic.

I also got crouch taunt spammed- by a CPU Metaknight. That's humiliation.

 

[gojira345]

Anyone that can film testing this?

 

[Bajef8]

they are a lot smarter i think. here's a test to try. if your playstyle is very repetitive, then fight a lv 9. if they seem to get better as the battle progresses, then yes they adapt.

 

[AbsoluteZero255]

Maybe I should play badly on purpose (but still win), so the lvl9 does so too.

 

[PCHU]

If CPUs can do this, then what happens when the gameplay progresses further, and CPUs learn the deadly chaingrabs and other techs we might find?
Before long, even Cort and Chris won't be able to win....
Soon, even Ken will be Ken combo'd....

 

[gojira345]

I don't know. It all depends on if they actually do record our button presses AND how they record or button presses for later use if they do so...

Stage positioning probably has a big to do with it. I notice replays can get screwed up due to where you are
supposed to be and where you really are due to some glitches (toon links dsmash, for example)

I'll try to study and find a way to record, even if bare bones.

 

[Eten]

I can off a level-9 Sonic in three seconds with Zelda and it still hasn't gotten used to it. Though I played a level-9 Samus as Samus before and I wound up exchanging z-airs with it for about 15 seconds.

There is no way that's true. I've played some Samus vs. Samus against the lvl 9 comp and where it would be fast enough to shield and dodge most of my attacks it acted as if it were almost completely blind to the zair move and I could literally Zair it to death. It wouldn't even try to use the zair as a damage move itself...

Basically, being that the comp has always acted like it couldn't even see a Zair coming despite having above-human reflex level 9 and that it never ever uses a zair.... I don't believe you.

 

[wolfyjr]

from my experience playing w/ l9comps, as other ppl have said, u cannot rely on them to be good practice to go up against another human, as they almost always recover the same way... what i notice with the comps is that when they recover, they really enjoy getting below the stage first, and then recovering up, even if their knocked off hte stage at a more vertical than horizontal angle, they always fall down and then start their recovery, this makes them... very very prone to a simple meteor smash down into the ko zone, and well, this just isnt what humans, do, even after consecutive smashes to their death, they still repeatedly recover the same way. so from my experiences, no they do not adapt to anything i seem to throw at them, their programmed a certain way and programmed to stay that way. for those that say they do change, maybe its the human changing instead? maybe at those high %'s near a ko, u freeze up and change your playing style, thats just an opinion, any objections?

 

[PCHU]

Sorry, but Zair?
The only thing I never found the definition to.
Could someone help me out?

And why won't CPUs do said Zair?

 

[gojira345]

Zair is doing your grab in the air to attack, as a tether grabber.

And I think what people are getting at wolfyjr is that they copy our attack strats or some basic actions they can already do.

Also, I don't think a zair is often done within 5 seconds of victory or seems relevant to the comp, and since the comp hardly uses it, I doubt it would be inclined to use it further too much.

I think the comp MAY be able to copy small things like different things you do shortly AFTER or BEFORE a
KO, depending on if it was a simple button press or a complex idea.

For example, Toon Link's throwing a bomb down then dair spiking you as you recoil may be too complex for a comp to copy, due to all the floaty DI going on.

The crouch taunting afterwards is very simple though, and is not only easily copied, I've seen it copied.

Maybe the BEST character to test this with would be Snake. KO in an easy to mimic way (ftilt at the edge)
then ALWAYS not move an inch and plant a mine, fully charged as they respawn.

See if they pick it up.

Also, my favorite thing other than spiking is to edgehog. The comp hasn't caught on to spiking to well (or for the sake of arguement, has never been programmed to do it well in the first place) becuase the aiming is difficult.

Butting smashing left then right to hog? Oh it did it to me yesterday. I was NOT pleased. Noticed it only happens against a character I play as too.

 

[rinoH]

one time when i was fighting a lvl 9 they started dash dancing crazy

 

[Serris]

Oh, crap.

I just went through my Brawl replays and it turns out it was a two-player match against that Samus. A lot of my Brawl replays are pathetic CPU losses, so I figured that was one of them.

*edits post*

Apologies and such.

Anyway, my friend Amber and I were playing Brawl earlier today. She kept running away while I went after the CPUs with a fury untold. When she killed me, they both taunted. Adaptive or not, these CPUs are becoming very annoying.

Currently beating the crap out of a Level-9 Peach for the 19th time in a row. No changes, yet. Then again, I always change the order of my attacks and the moves I use.

 

[Moustachio]

Hmm, it seems to me that MOST character CPUs can adapt. Some, cannot...such as Snake. Snake is total crap as a CPU...

 

[gojira345]

I say mirror matches or alternating matches are the BEST way to test.

Why on earth would Peach copy something Samus did?

However, if you play as Peach against Samus you might see a short behavior difference after she KO's you.

 

[Krayn]

You know what sucks. When the only thing you have to practise against is a CPU cause you have no one around you that is good at smash. So therefore its kinda hard to improve. Eh, w/e.

 

[gojira345]

I play with my wife. REALLY helps you learn to get around spam. (She likes Zelda and PT).

 

[gojira345]

Just played a level 9 Donkey Kong after not playing computers in a long time.

It was awful. It did the same defensive manuevers I do, down to turning backwards on battlefield while doing an utilt to protect it's back, following with uair, and everything.

The FUNNY part is that it seems to copy my spiking manuevers, but like all computers, it hugs the stage so tight it can't meteor me for crap.

Guys, count yourself lucky they can't copy our offstage gimp button presses due to their programmed fear or the edge.

 

[Debonu]

weird for me i always use GaW and shorthop alot but computer GaW's never seem to do that >.<

 

[gojira345]

Have you done alot of GaW mirrors?

 

[Silfa]

I played a few matches against some level nines after seeing this topic and the one thing that really stood out was the crouch taunting. I've been doing it heaps lately, so that would probably explain it.

Pretty cool. It made me smile.

 

[gojira345]

As long as the Bowser cpu doesn't learn to spam his claw grab like my friend does (defeatable, but very frustrating) I'll be fine.

Anyone making a vid? I wish I could, but I can't.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Let me say my answer again since everyone missed it blatantly stated on the first page. Ahem.

No.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

they eat d¡cks

 

[.:DRAKE:.]

The CPUs don't adapt. The AI has taken massive leap forward since Melee, but they are still nowhere near as decent as human players. This thread has a bad title.

 

[nightSN]

does someone want to explain why ic lvl 9 was doing ic chain grab on me.

 

[gojira345]

I don't think they ADAPT so much as I think they COPY button presses.

Discuss?

 

[xXZeroXx]

I think it works as replays, copying button presses. They won't adapt though, I still can gimp Ike with Marth without loosing a life, no matter how many times I do so xD

 

[TwilightKirby]

eh the computer does seem to copy button inputs but it doesn't really matter since the computer is bad at recovering. They drop down below the ledge to recover and don't try to attack you back, so they are very easy to spike and such.

Though I was surprised when the computer actually jumped off the ledge as ROB and stagespiked me with a bair o.O
still I only try to practice new techniques etc. on computers... if you play them too much they still put you in bad habits.

 

[Jonkku]

eh the computer does seem to copy button inputs but it doesn't really matter since the computer is bad at recovering. They drop down below the ledge to recover and don't try to attack you back, so they are very easy to spike and such.

You're the second one that says that..
And that is kinda creepy, as whenever I battle CPU's they recover from as high as possible..

Also, I've seen two CPU's crouch taunt me, at the same time, after I died..

 

[XienZo]

Yeah, I think the button-copy theory seems pretty solid now. It'd be nice if we had a vid of a CP actually crouch taunting, so we'd have solid proof.

 

[Immortal_One]

It's either the button copy theory, or it's an intricate set of algorithms that sense how far away the opponent is and what buttons they're pressing and execute moves in such a fashion to pwn them out of the ring.

I vouch for the button copy theory.