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Dont get da kid started (boss)

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
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RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
How do I deal with Pit? I've got some idea, but any advice would help.

It's just a goddamn annoying MU.
Pit's weakness is midrange. Get there and try to outpoke and outzone him. Reading him with F-smash is really good given that it outranges like everything he has. If you have balls and see his F-smash coming, powershielding the 2nd hit = free Smash. Alternatively, stand barely inside his F-smash range, charge F-smash, and punish him if he takes the bait. As an added bonus, charging the Smash happens to be good if he spotdodges and less unsafe if he shields.

He'll probably roll at some point, given that his rolls are above average. But like any other rolls, they can be baited and punished.

It's a pretty straightforward matchup for the most part. This matchup and vs Lucario are very similar in how you have to approach them for the most part. Controlling midrange with your poke options is how you get the advantage.

Jabbing Pit is also fun, given that Sweetspot Jab -> D-smash links on him pretty easily. His floaty and not too lightweight stature in general is very favorable for getting juggled by Mario's combos as well.
 

boss8

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
9,337
Location
where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
FALCO
KIRBY

How do I make these nightmares stop???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9xtnocf3E


well ill give u the pros n cons....kirby

pros-

-fireballs
-jab setups
-floaty easy to combo

cons-

-copy fireballs xD
-5 jumps
-range
-bair @_@
-utilt,fast about 3 frames

Kirby-kirby can dodge alot of things for some reason...you wanna keep kirby above you most of the time....Staying grounded is also a good thing...cause kirby cant really do anything on the ground...

you have the ground advantage with ur ftilt,jabs,utilts etc try and space....and avoid his SHbair...dnt be fooled kirby can also fakeout cause he has 6 jumps..

avoid being in the air for it is fatal xD..

idk much about falco....

maybe omari or flameleon can help you with that....:awesome:
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
Nice video vs Kirby. I'm not quite sure how you came back on damage after getting wrecked at the beginning of the first and third stocks. With the ledge cape at the end, do you have invincibility frames or something on that, or did you just time it right? I never got it to work very well.
 

boss8

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
9,337
Location
where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
Nice video vs Kirby. I'm not quite sure how you came back on damage after getting wrecked at the beginning of the first and third stocks. With the ledge cape at the end, do you have invincibility frames or something on that, or did you just time it right? I never got it to work very well.
thanks man....

and yea the timing is kinda strict....

if u miss u get spiked...
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
Ah. I'll just have to be careful, then. Thanks for the tips. When we gonna play again?
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
@Sleek Media: What exactly about the Mario:Falco MU becomes a nightmare for you? Until you set a ground that I can work with then I won't know what areas you're having trouble with.

@Boss: Why stop having fun? Despite how bad of a character in Super Smash Bros. Brawl :mario2: may be claimed to be, doesn't become boring & IMO he never gets old (literally & mentally). Pains me to see Mario mains give up...
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
you really think im switching??

the way i see it diddy is basically mario with bananas and no projectile (peanuts i guess?)

lol
Why would I think that? Besides, its your choice to do so anyway & the only person it would have an effect on is you.
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
@Sleek Media: What exactly about the Mario:Falco MU becomes a nightmare for you? Until you set a ground that I can work with then I won't know what areas you're having trouble with.

@Boss: Why stop having fun? Despite how bad of a character in Super Smash Bros. Brawl :mario2: may be claimed to be, doesn't become boring & IMO he never gets old (literally & mentally). Pains me to see Mario mains give up...
Well, here's my beef with Falco:

- 50% FREE damage with the chaingrab
- His spot dodge is crazy, the only relatively safe approach I know is jab, everything else gets me CG'd
- He's fast enough that caping lasers can be risky
- Reflector that is much more effective against our projectiles
- Don't know how to punish dair
- Laser->usmash setup
- Somehow, I almost never land the cape against his ->B, so he recovers too often

I feel like if there was a way to deal with the chaingrab, I could get over the other stuff. 50% every stock is just so much of a handicap against a character with a good KO setup.
 

JuxtaposeX

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
1,283
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Canada
Cape can't hit his sideB, just nair him out of it and then have your way with him. Falco is weak off the stage, as he has very limited options, take advantage of that. As for caping lasers, cape AWAY from him instead, if you're scared that he'll hit you.
Falco has to dash after every dthrow on Mario, as opposed to just walking to regrab. Take advantage of this and just mash Upb, if he messes up just slightly you'll punch him in the face. Don't let him predict the upb though, or you're ganna get mashed.
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
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Columbus, Ohio
Cape can hit falco's Phantasm. You usually won't get it, but it's more than possible.

It was a friendly, but I made Clowsui rage quit one of ours after I cape killed him for two stocks.
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
Well, here's my beef with Falco:

- 50% FREE damage with the chaingrab
- His spot dodge is crazy, the only relatively safe approach I know is jab, everything else gets me CG'd
- He's fast enough that caping lasers can be risky
- Reflector that is much more effective against our projectiles
- Don't know how to punish dair
- Laser->usmash setup
- Somehow, I almost never land the cape against his ->B, so he recovers too often

I feel like if there was a way to deal with the chaingrab, I could get over the other stuff. 50% every stock is just so much of a handicap against a character with a good KO setup.
-Smart Falco mains are capable to rack way more damage than 50% (75-100% for starters) free damage with Chain-Grab (CG) (this should IMO make any Mario main think smarter about not getting grabbed) on Mario.

Fun fact(s) regarding free damage:
1. Mario has a true combo (Front Throw (f-throw)>Shutter Step Front Smash (SSFS) angled up) on Falco. Angled straight or angled down will not work because Falco's foot must be hit. The damage (fresh) from this true combo is 27%.
2. Mario can combo out of Up Tilt (u-tilt) on Falco. Since Falco's a fast falling space animal (character), you can u-tilt lock him at certain low percents (+10% for starters) or jab after u-tilt (very capable of continuing combos against heavy sets) at certain percents.
3. Mario can bait Falco after u-tilt locking him by shielding towards him (airborne Falco). You have numbers of Out of Shield (OoS) options without releasing your shield that can further make Falco regret ever attempting to CG Mario. Super Jump Punch (SJP) to agitate your opponent(s) most likely resulting in them going aggro or re-thinking their strategy, Up Smash (u-smash) to kill (+120%) Falco, Neutral Air (n-air) to get them away (GTFB AKA Get The **** Back) or offstage, Down Air (d-air) to further combo/string/juggle/mind-game/etc them or Back Air (b-air) to space effectively.

-Walk (don't run because you'll be limiting your options) while power shielding (if you can or shielding) lasers towards Falco.

BTW: Keep in mind that you can't jab, tilt (any) or front smash during running.

-Don't become predictable with how you shoot fire balls (platform camping is by far more effective when the game starts (analyze how Falco mains maneuver around your fire balls), when they're offstage (cheap knockouts) & when you have the lead (be sure to mix up your style).

Fun Facts regarding Fire Ball analyzing:
1. Opponent(s) block<free grab
2. Opponent(s) jump<free ANTi-air
3. Opponent(s) attack<free air
4. Opponent(s) roll<free smash (charge a smash to make your punish effective)
5. Opponent(s) spot dodge<free jab (hold jab instead of tapping)
6. Opponent(s) walk away<free fire ball (chances are they're planning to punish)
ETC...

-Shield towards airborne Falco mains (make sure you shield Mario's hat as it actually hinders from block all incoming airs) when they're attacking Mario.

Note: You won't be spiked if you throw off their predictions by Cape or F.L.U.D.D. them.

-When you're at a high percent, watch your opponent(s) (Falco mains) for BDACUS (about a third to a half stage) spacing (as they'll most likely be predictable with their range when going for a laser setup to kill).

Quick Tip: When recovering at high percents against Falco mains, they'll more likely be more capable to kill Mario with only their laser(s). Save your mid air jump until you're without a doubt sure you'll need it as Falco can gimp Mario as simple as Mario can collect coins.

-IMO, if you're not confident in reading your opponent(s) (Falco mains) then n-air instead of cape.

Liu Kang Kicks anyone?: You'd be surprised at how well n-air works offstage (one of the reasons why I consider Mario a gimp king) on most of the roster (cast). Mario can hit Falco out of his recoveries (depending when they're used) then edge-hog. IMO, the only time n-air should be fast fell is while Mario's onstage.

Smart Falco mains can get Mario to death percents at ease if they can grab Mario. Be on point at all times lessening your chances of falling into auto-piloting (everyone makes mistakes so don't beat yourself up if you happen to do something wrong during the MU) Sleek Media. Modify your weaknesses & strengthen your strengths. Thanks for your time!
 

Sleek Media

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
1,399
Good Stuff!
Thanks for all the info. I'll have to try some of that out, but frankly, "don't get grabbed" is BS. If the entire match can hinge on a few grabs, then I'll just use Lucario or someone who can't be CG'd. Goddamn it, Sakurai.
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
Don't get grabbed: Although this saying may seem like bull**** to some of our members, it's true & should (IMO) be taken with extreme caution.

1. Spot dodge (when in grab range (about one Mario away)) is a counter for grab. Spot dodge is placed first on this list (when brawling against Falco mains) because you want to stay within their personal space (comfort area) without getting grabbed yourself. Yes, this sounds like a huge dilemma (death sentence) but it can be done.

2. Don't jump (short hop or full hop)>air dodge. You don't want to back yourself into a corner you can't escape from. Falco mains can simple time Mario's air dodge which IMO is fairly simple to do so.

3. Rolling (to increase being less predictable) can also be used to better your current position. Don't forget that you're still invincible when you roll (front roll or back roll) when escaping Falco's grab attempts.

No problem boss, I like helping people whenever I can & thanks.
 

DtJ XeroXen

The biggest fraud
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Honestly, I never spot dodge, it's a bad idea at times. Especially against chain grabbers. Simply put, if they predict it, or just do something that ends before the spot dodge... you're getting punished, hard. I never, ever, ever spotdodge in any matchup, or roll for that matter. Unless it's an accident or just randomly.
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
399
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Jamaica, NY
Honestly, I never spot dodge, it's a bad idea at times. Especially against chain grabbers. Simply put, if they predict it, or just do something that ends before the spot dodge... you're getting punished, hard. I never, ever, ever spotdodge in any matchup, or roll for that matter. Unless it's an accident or just randomly.
IMO, I believe that there's good spot dodging & good rolling opposed to bad rolling & spot dodging. Don't get me wrong, I used to think the same way when they were nothing but bad habits that hindered my success. They're now my effective options used to conditioning my opponent's mindset during game-play. Conditioning with spot dodges or rolls can temporarily cause your opponent(s) to prepare for punishing these maneuvers. Using this method will leave you another step ahead of your opponent(s) (two (2)) pulling victory that much closer to you!

Inverted Shenanigans!

How to conditioning your opponent(s) with rolling: Have you ever considered rolling twice (front or back) at an odd time of a match? Inverted Shenanigans: Rolling so you condition your opponent(s) to become prepared for another roll (one step ahead) when you're actually preparing to punish your opponent(s) punish (two steps ahead).

Example: Rolling behind your opponent>rolling in front of your opponent (repeat at own risk). By doing this, your opponent(s) will become prepared for another roll & will punish accordingly (in the opposite direction that you're in to "catch" you when you exit the roll). To punish their punish, wait. Risky yes (but you conditioned your opponent(s) to react to you in a certain way) & what do have to be worried about? Nothing because it's exactly like you caped them without reflecting.

How to condition you opponent(s) with spot dodging: Have you ever considered spot dodging several times at randomly once during the match? Once again, this isn't a shenanigan. Inverted Shenanigans: Spot dodging so you condition your opponent(s) to become prepared for another spot dodge (one step ahead again) when you're actually preparing to punish your opponent(s) punish (two steps ahead still).

Example: Walking up to your opponent(s) (out of attacking & grabbing range)>Spot dodging>walk away (repeat at own risk). By doing this, your opponent(s) will become prepared for a spot dodge & punish with a jab (auto jab) or charged smash. To punish their punish, run up to them (spaced effectively) & power-shield. From here, its free OoS city!

@Boss: How would you feel about only using Mario in all tournaments that you travel to? Same goes for Luigi? Would you consider another character or feel confident in your Mario Bros.? Yep, I know (stupid question=stupid answer) but this thread is mainly for you to answer questions. Not for me to hog the spotlight.
 

boss8

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
9,337
Location
where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
IMO, I believe that there's good spot dodging & good rolling opposed to bad rolling & spot dodging. Don't get me wrong, I used to think the same way when they were nothing but bad habits that hindered my success. They're now my effective options used to conditioning my opponent's mindset during game-play. Conditioning with spot dodges or rolls can temporarily cause your opponent(s) to prepare for punishing these maneuvers. Using this method will leave you another step ahead of your opponent(s) (two (2)) pulling victory that much closer to you!

Inverted Shenanigans!

How to conditioning your opponent(s) with rolling: Have you ever considered rolling twice (front or back) at an odd time of a match? Inverted Shenanigans: Rolling so you condition your opponent(s) to become prepared for another roll (one step ahead) when you're actually preparing to punish your opponent(s) punish (two steps ahead).

Example: Rolling behind your opponent>rolling in front of your opponent (repeat at own risk). By doing this, your opponent(s) will become prepared for another roll & will punish accordingly (in the opposite direction that you're in to "catch" you when you exit the roll). To punish their punish, wait. Risky yes (but you conditioned your opponent(s) to react to you in a certain way) & what do have to be worried about? Nothing because it's exactly like you caped them without reflecting.

How to condition you opponent(s) with spot dodging: Have you ever considered spot dodging several times at randomly once during the match? Once again, this isn't a shenanigan. Inverted Shenanigans: Spot dodging so you condition your opponent(s) to become prepared for another spot dodge (one step ahead again) when you're actually preparing to punish your opponent(s) punish (two steps ahead still).

Example: Walking up to your opponent(s) (out of attacking & grabbing range)>Spot dodging>walk away (repeat at own risk). By doing this, your opponent(s) will become prepared for a spot dodge & punish with a jab (auto jab) or charged smash. To punish their punish, run up to them (spaced effectively) & power-shield. From here, its free OoS city!

@Boss: How would you feel about only using Mario in all tournaments that you travel to? Same goes for Luigi? Would you consider another character or feel confident in your Mario Bros.? Yep, I know (stupid question=stupid answer) but this thread is mainly for you to answer questions. Not for me to hog the spotlight.
lol na brah your not hoggin da spotlight.....and going all mario would be pretty risky.....i use luigi also jus to secure some wins.....like vs nakat i wanted to go mario....but i was to hesitant about it....
 

SKidd

Smash Master
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Mar 27, 2010
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B.C.
Boss


Where's all your videos? And I mean the modern ones, not the old ones.


Also dair = anti-grab.

***** ICs, they of course seldom know the MUs.



And one last thing, what are my keys in spacing and stage control?
 

2fast

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
439
Location
VA
I usually go metaknight, mario vs. D3 is stupid.
^ This. The best thing I think is for you to take D3 to BF, someplace you can camp and he can't CG you to much and prepare to time him out and if possible. The best idea really is to change characters for the MU, sorry to say.
 

Omari

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
399
Location
Jamaica, NY
What do you do usually against D3's. I tend to get shield grabbed outta my dair.
Regarding approaching King DeDeDe: be creative with how you space your b-airs (tip D3's face with the bottom of your foot while landing no where near him), full hop your d-airs (ensuring simple mix-ups & d-air into him (making ground contact) allowing a free jab, front tilt or down smash) & N-air when his shield is low to rack up damage (Example: N-air (dirty)>d-smash racks up damage & knocks D3 offstage quickly (you may even be able to trap him (use your imagination) with your tools). Fake-outs help tremendously when baiting (looking or lurking for openings) versus DDD. Generally speaking, you want D3 in the air as fast as possible without you getting grabbed. This is brief tips (air wise) & thanks.
 
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