Down-smash > Footstool > Ledge-grab.

[NickRiddle]

This thread is going to explain how exactly this is done, and why it is amazing.

Now, this may seem like a terrible idea when one can spike out of a down-smash, but consider this. You can DI spikes, and you can meteor-cancel spikes. If the opponent is not killed from you down-b, you are now in a terrible position. If you are offstage, YOU are getting edgeguarded. If you are onstage, you are almost guaranteed to get hit. With downsmash > footstool, neither of these scenarios can ever occur.

Here is a video showing the downsmash > footstool, and who it works on.

Please note: The assumption when using this, is that the character has used their double jump (or in the case or Kirby/Jiggs, multiple jumps) in order to try to recover. Every character in the game survives if they keep their double jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojNS1UuaOo

A condensed version of the characters is here, in alphabetical order.

Bowser: Dies - Tether

Captain Falcon: Dies - Either.

Captain Olimar: Dies. - Drop down.

Diddy Kong: Put in a terrible position for edgeguarding. Almost guaranteed dair follow-up, which WILL result in death
after ~30%.

Donkey Kong: Dies. No ledge-grab needed.

Falco: Dies. - Either.

Fox: Dies. - Either

Ganondorf: Dies - Either.

Ice Climbers (together): If you footstool Nana, Popo can save her. If you footstool Popo, they die.

Ice Climbers (SoPo): Dies

Ike: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Jigglypuff: Dies if Jiggs has used 3 or more jumps while trying to recover.

King DeDeDe: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Kirby: Dies if Kirby has used all of his jumps while trying to recover.

Link: Dies. (Unless bomb is in hand, and explodes while he is high.) - Drop down.

Lucario: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Lucas: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity. You can dair the PKT if you're god-like and still kill
Lucas.

Luigi: Dies. - Drop down.

Mario: Dies. - Drop down.

Marth: Dies. - Drop down.

MK: LIVES! (Lands on stage.) Don't even try to edgeguard. Just spike him and hope for the best.

Mr. Game and Watch: Lives. (Lands on stage.) No possible edgeguard but dair.

Ness: Dies. - Either.

Peach: Dies. - Tether.

Pikachu: Lives. (Lands on stage.) No possible edgeguard but dair.

Pit: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible followup to knock Pit out of his up-b.

Squirtle: Dies. - Either.

Ivysaur: Dies. - Drop down.

Charizard: Dies. - Either.

ROB: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Samus: Lives? (Lands on stage.)

Sheik: Dies. - Either.

Snake: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Sonic: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible follow-up in video.

Toon Link: Lives. (Lands on stage.) Possible edgeguard opportunity.

Wario: Dies if waft and bike is used. Dair followup will knock Wario out of his bike 100% of the time, which WILL kill.

Wolf: Dies. - Tether.

Yoshi: Technically cannot get hit unless he does an attack out of his DJ. If he does, he dies.

Zelda: Dies. - Either.

ZSS: Dies. Drop down.

 

[Dumbfire]

Nice thread. I dont think ZSS would die tho, Down b in wall and DJ will prolly make her survive.

 

[Nefarious B]

I tend to double jump instead of footstool I'll have to practice I guess, cause this is pretty cool

Nice thread. I dont think ZSS would die tho, Down b in wall and DJ will prolly make her survive.

This assumes no double jump, everyone can make it back with a double jump. I think we could tether before the footstooling ZS could get in range to tether

 

[NickRiddle]

Okay... the list needs some modifying. I just saved the replays I need, and will have a video up by tonight.
Like... almost everybody dies. It's freaking amazing.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Haha very ****

 

[NickRiddle]

When you see the video, it'll actually make you gay.
Yup.

 

[Zero]

But Samus is my waifu :<

 

[#HBC | J]

can't wait to see this ;o

And wooow that is a pretty extensive list.

 

[Mike2]

*foams at the mouth*

 

[Rybaia]

Thanks Nick for sharing your knowledge.
Very nice thread.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Can't wait for the video!

 

[Dakpo]

dair follow up?

 

[Sovereign]

Pretty anxious to see the footage. Good stuff Nick.

 

[Z1GMA]

I haven't red it all yet,
but would it be possible make a picture of the marginal of ZSS' footstool?
At least a *pretty * accurate picture.

Sort of a footstool-hitbubble.

 

[ADHD]

Wait you're going to run offstage and dair diddy after you footstool him? OMG. I think downsmash to dair is cooler :D

 

[Dakpo]

i guess i might just be missing the picture but if you dair of the edge ....you die? i get it if your behind by a lot or your a stock a head and you suicide to kill them too, but the way you guys are speaking of it is if you are using it in a safe way >_>

 

[NickRiddle]

Video is uploading. OP will be updated when it is done. :D

Also, the dair kills both of you... most of the time.
Unless the YI ghost is really kind to you, or something.

 

[Nefarious B]

Sexy sexy sexy. I'm surprised it works on Marth, I thought his up b was higher than that

 

[Zero]

Oh baby, the Falco one is hillariousssss

 

[NickRiddle]

isn't it cute?

 

[Zero]

My favourite is the Lucas one though, hehehehehe

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Can we nominate that for some kinda award?
2 gud.
The space animals furry comment made my day.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Lovely vid <3

 

[Scaphist]

Have you tested it with Captain Falcon/Ganon upbing into zamus? I was showing this to my friend who plays zss and we were fooling around with it. Using Ganon I could upB into him and I'd live(to wizkick spike him no less). My friend might have just been doing it wrong though.

 

[NickRiddle]

He should reel-in to the ledge faster.
Also, Ganon's up-b has 0 hitstun, so it shoudl never lead to anything but Ganon getting hit.

 

[NickRiddle]

Double post.
Also, not very important to the thread.

YouTube randomly wants to pay me for putting ads on this video... hooray?

 

[wWw Dazwa]

That's how good it is!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I successfully used this technique in a tournement last night and it made my game so much better. Mad props on the video and the thread. Ha, it increased my game alot.

 

[Deathfox30]

I've actually been doing this awhile and I love it, but I had no idea it worked on Marth or that sexy set up on Falco. =o <3

 

[Razmakazi]

luigi won't die coz most wigi mains can rising tornado all the way up w/o his double jump.

;o

 

[NickRiddle]

luigi won't die coz most wigi mains can rising tornado all the way up w/o his double jump.

;o

So it takes an extra step.
Hit Luigi out of his obvious tornado.

 

[Sovereign]

Hey Nick, have you already figured that the higher the damage when they are Dsmashed - Footstool the longer they are in footstool stun?

 

[NickRiddle]

Hey Nick, have you already figured that the higher the damage when they are Dsmashed - Footstool the longer they are in footstool stun?

This is not true.
The d-smash stun is canceled by the footstool.
Footstools last the same amount of time, no matter what % the opponent is.

 

[zApollo]

Do the length of footstool animations differ between characters?

 

[NickRiddle]

Do the length of footstool animations differ between characters?

I don't know...
I don't think so...

 

[Deathfox30]

Do the length of footstool animations differ between characters?

I think only for ROB.

Nick, is there any reason you the footstool didn't cancel the stun in game 1 vs Ally at MLG Columbus? :S

 

[Nefarious B]

It just looks different, he is still in a footstool animation for the normal length of time

 

[Deathfox30]

At higher percents, they kind of float there then go into the footstool animation. So... it doesn't really "cancel" the stun at all percents, it just forces them to go into a tumble rather than them flying up.

 

[NickRiddle]

At higher percents, they kind of float there then go into the footstool animation. So... it doesn't really "cancel" the stun at all percents, it just forces them to go into a tumble rather than them flying up.

It only freezes them there if they were hit into your d-smash IIRC.

 

[Sovereign]

Nick, as of late I've done it again. When I Dsmash(uncharged) and then footstool my opponent, they fall, while shaking from the Dsmash stun, and don't recover for until it's too late.

Charged Dsmashes to footstools will end up not taking effect, until they fall out of the Dsmash stun.