KrIsP!
Smash Champion
What did you think/notice? All I know is it has brawl's shield.
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Down to Business (Competitive)
- Thread starter KrIsP!
- Start date
Lechteron
Smash Apprentice
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Something about Bowser seems more powerful but that may just be my wishful thinking.
Smash attacks seem really powerful but fighters could be at high percentages so we really can't be sure.
Meteor smashes seem more plentiful. They showcased two of them: Donkey Kongs Fair and Megaman's Hard Knuckle (Probably Dair).
Fighting seemed faster than Brawl. Can definitely see the Namco-Bandai influence in the attack styles.
Smash attacks seem really powerful but fighters could be at high percentages so we really can't be sure.
Meteor smashes seem more plentiful. They showcased two of them: Donkey Kongs Fair and Megaman's Hard Knuckle (Probably Dair).
Fighting seemed faster than Brawl. Can definitely see the Namco-Bandai influence in the attack styles.
Life
Smash Hero
I thought I noticed something funny with Link's run, almost moonwalk-esque, in the scene where he gets a bunch of spin attack KOs.
Look at Bowser's attack right before Villager's name bar. I think that's a new ftilt? And he did it OOS?
Look at Bowser's attack right before Villager's name bar. I think that's a new ftilt? And he did it OOS?
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Someone go check out the initial dashes if possible, I think that can tell us a lot about the physics although dkuo is right, they may have even just made a brawl HD with megaman to show us while they work on the engine first.
Lechteron
Smash Apprentice
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Downloaded the video from Youtube and I'm about to watch it back slowed down. Will edit with findings.
Edit:
:47 - Mario uses his Up+B. Link and Pikachu are launched substantially higher than DK and are launched decently high before Mario has left the ground. May indicate that attacks are generally more powerful and/or that weight is more important now.
:48 - Every one launched significantly. Mostly upward but any other direction seems to be from where Mario hit them. Mario goes up approximately 4.5 Mario heights.
:49 - Link's Up+B gets used in mid-air. Hit's Fox four times. Can't tell how much knockback there was due to the zoom but Fox left with a good velocity in an upper right trajectory.
:50 - DK grabs Samus with one hand.
:51 - Two pummels and then the beginning of DK's forward throw. Toon Link conducting the train. May mean that TL is out or being the fourth character there, it might be an easter egg to reveal TL.
:52 - DK walks for about a second then throws Samus.
:53 - Mario runs a short distance and jumps.
:54- Pit and Kirby do their Fairs. Kirby doesn't hit but Pit does right before landing. The knockback is interrupted by Bowser's Down+B hitting both of them.
:55 - Bowser's Down+B knockback is mostly upward. Seems to have completely canceled any knockback to Kirby from Pit's Fair. A spike pillar from Super Mario World (And probably 3D World) hits Bowser for a probable kill and breaks part of the stage.
:56 - Fox, Pikachu, Kirby, and Link crouching in a Nintendog stage? Link's shield is out in front appearing to still be able to block projectiles.
:57 - Mario double jumps insanely high through a stage and out of the 3DS. Hint at connectivity features perhaps.
1:08 - Bowser does an upward goring attack with his horns. Hits upward and quite a ways in front of him but it gets dodged. Link maybe tried to avoid it too while being behind Bowser.
1:09 - Said goring attack was the set up to the Bowser Bomb (Down+B) either an extra set up feature on the ground or showing that attacks can link in to each other. Probably the former. Fox starts charging the firefox and aims at Link.
1:10 - Link stops the firefox with his spin attack. Mario hits Bowser with his forward smash. Both Fox and Bowser get KO'd pretty handily.
1:11 - Mario head butts the air. Up smash. Looks nice. No charge mechanics shown so far.
1:12 - Mario shows his forward smash again. Looks good as well. Nice explosion and step into it. Pit attacks DK with the Upperdash Arm (I haven't played KI:U but that's what it appears to be from a Wiki seach). New dash attack or forward+B.
1:13 - Pit does a firey uppercut. Appears to KO DK.
1:14 - Link does his Forward Smash at the air.
1:15 - Samus Ftilts Bowser for some knockback but not fatal by any means. Enough to keep him away.
1:16 - She then Fsmashes DK who flies significantly faster but no way to know the total since it's zoomed in on Samus. Link Fsmashes DK. Pikachu taunts. Samus fires her charge beam.
1:17 - Charge beam hits DK who then gets hit by Pikachu's downB.
1:19 - Pit uses UpB. Seems more like a straight shot than the old full flight ability. Could just be for cinematics though.
1:20 - Here's something really interesting. Link uses his dash attack as DK starts to do his UpB. DK has super armor and hits Link with a bit more knockback than Samus' Ftilt of Bowser.
1:21 - Kirby turns into a thwomp with his stone ability. Pikachu ducks and crawls backwards.
1:22-1:23 - Samus begins using her final smash in the air. Link's using his spin attack in the air (Looks to be a decent recovery move now), Pikachu is starting a forward smash, and Bowser is Bowser Bombing.
1:24 - Samus' attack begins. Very wide area. Looks stunning. Hits many times. We don't see it finish though. It may try to push rather than shove for KOs. No idea if it causes ZSS to appear. Probably though.
1:26 - Mario and Bowser in a boxing ring. The mat and sides say Smash Bros. It's not King Dedede boxing ring. A nod to Little Mac, perhaps. They dash at each other.
1:27 - Mario interrupts his run with a Usmash. Nice wide attack arc on it. Bowser's shield activates and disappears very quickly giving him the ability to block and counter-attack.
1:28 - Which he does with a new move, a drop kick. Looks powerful.
After this it focuses on Villager so I'll add another post for that later. Took a long time to go through the first minute and a half and I have things I need to do today.
Edit:
:47 - Mario uses his Up+B. Link and Pikachu are launched substantially higher than DK and are launched decently high before Mario has left the ground. May indicate that attacks are generally more powerful and/or that weight is more important now.
:48 - Every one launched significantly. Mostly upward but any other direction seems to be from where Mario hit them. Mario goes up approximately 4.5 Mario heights.
:49 - Link's Up+B gets used in mid-air. Hit's Fox four times. Can't tell how much knockback there was due to the zoom but Fox left with a good velocity in an upper right trajectory.
:50 - DK grabs Samus with one hand.
:51 - Two pummels and then the beginning of DK's forward throw. Toon Link conducting the train. May mean that TL is out or being the fourth character there, it might be an easter egg to reveal TL.
:52 - DK walks for about a second then throws Samus.
:53 - Mario runs a short distance and jumps.
:54- Pit and Kirby do their Fairs. Kirby doesn't hit but Pit does right before landing. The knockback is interrupted by Bowser's Down+B hitting both of them.
:55 - Bowser's Down+B knockback is mostly upward. Seems to have completely canceled any knockback to Kirby from Pit's Fair. A spike pillar from Super Mario World (And probably 3D World) hits Bowser for a probable kill and breaks part of the stage.
:56 - Fox, Pikachu, Kirby, and Link crouching in a Nintendog stage? Link's shield is out in front appearing to still be able to block projectiles.
:57 - Mario double jumps insanely high through a stage and out of the 3DS. Hint at connectivity features perhaps.
1:08 - Bowser does an upward goring attack with his horns. Hits upward and quite a ways in front of him but it gets dodged. Link maybe tried to avoid it too while being behind Bowser.
1:09 - Said goring attack was the set up to the Bowser Bomb (Down+B) either an extra set up feature on the ground or showing that attacks can link in to each other. Probably the former. Fox starts charging the firefox and aims at Link.
1:10 - Link stops the firefox with his spin attack. Mario hits Bowser with his forward smash. Both Fox and Bowser get KO'd pretty handily.
1:11 - Mario head butts the air. Up smash. Looks nice. No charge mechanics shown so far.
1:12 - Mario shows his forward smash again. Looks good as well. Nice explosion and step into it. Pit attacks DK with the Upperdash Arm (I haven't played KI:U but that's what it appears to be from a Wiki seach). New dash attack or forward+B.
1:13 - Pit does a firey uppercut. Appears to KO DK.
1:14 - Link does his Forward Smash at the air.
1:15 - Samus Ftilts Bowser for some knockback but not fatal by any means. Enough to keep him away.
1:16 - She then Fsmashes DK who flies significantly faster but no way to know the total since it's zoomed in on Samus. Link Fsmashes DK. Pikachu taunts. Samus fires her charge beam.
1:17 - Charge beam hits DK who then gets hit by Pikachu's downB.
1:19 - Pit uses UpB. Seems more like a straight shot than the old full flight ability. Could just be for cinematics though.
1:20 - Here's something really interesting. Link uses his dash attack as DK starts to do his UpB. DK has super armor and hits Link with a bit more knockback than Samus' Ftilt of Bowser.
1:21 - Kirby turns into a thwomp with his stone ability. Pikachu ducks and crawls backwards.
1:22-1:23 - Samus begins using her final smash in the air. Link's using his spin attack in the air (Looks to be a decent recovery move now), Pikachu is starting a forward smash, and Bowser is Bowser Bombing.
1:24 - Samus' attack begins. Very wide area. Looks stunning. Hits many times. We don't see it finish though. It may try to push rather than shove for KOs. No idea if it causes ZSS to appear. Probably though.
1:26 - Mario and Bowser in a boxing ring. The mat and sides say Smash Bros. It's not King Dedede boxing ring. A nod to Little Mac, perhaps. They dash at each other.
1:27 - Mario interrupts his run with a Usmash. Nice wide attack arc on it. Bowser's shield activates and disappears very quickly giving him the ability to block and counter-attack.
1:28 - Which he does with a new move, a drop kick. Looks powerful.
After this it focuses on Villager so I'll add another post for that later. Took a long time to go through the first minute and a half and I have things I need to do today.
Sarki Soliloquy
Smash Champion
There's a picture on the Dojo of Mega Man and Mario in his air dodge frame. Might be a hint.
Also, hoping for Melee physics pl0x.
kellyk1035
Smash Journeyman
wish there were more footage \
Ryuker
Smash Lord
My first reaction was brawl 2.0. After closer inspection I'm not so sure. Watch mario jump in the arena at 01:23 for example and I could swear that fall speed resembles melee. Links run at 01:15 also doesn't feel off. Smash Attacks and tilts also seem fast but they weren't that slow in brawl.
Sound effects and vfx look brawlesque though
Shield looks like brawls in terms of speed and the powershield as well.
Knockback and hitstun is probably the most crucial difference. It looks like it's more then in brawl but you only really see strong damaging attacks. There's some tilts in there
At 00:15 in the mega man vid watch fox fastfall with nair. The landing lag looks less which could mean they reduced landing lag overall. He also fastfalls quickly after a double jump. You can also see some accidental smash DI going on by link when the nair hits. He's also immediatly hit by fox nair still out after he get's hit by Megaman's neutral B.
Mega Man looks like a interesting competitive char.
Sound effects and vfx look brawlesque though
Shield looks like brawls in terms of speed and the powershield as well.
Knockback and hitstun is probably the most crucial difference. It looks like it's more then in brawl but you only really see strong damaging attacks. There's some tilts in there
At 00:15 in the mega man vid watch fox fastfall with nair. The landing lag looks less which could mean they reduced landing lag overall. He also fastfalls quickly after a double jump. You can also see some accidental smash DI going on by link when the nair hits. He's also immediatly hit by fox nair still out after he get's hit by Megaman's neutral B.
Mega Man looks like a interesting competitive char.
Sarki Soliloquy
Smash Champion
Here's the pic from the new Dojo I was referring to.
EDIT: So looks like the whole Pic of the Day thing swapped up the aforementioned image. Here's another one of the Villager doing what appears to be the same thing:
EDIT: So looks like the whole Pic of the Day thing swapped up the aforementioned image. Here's another one of the Villager doing what appears to be the same thing:
Revven
FrankerZ
Doesn't look like Melee physics whatsoever. You can't really tell though because the gameplay clips are so miniscule just like Brawl's reveal trailer.
It's the same thing all over again. People are hyped for the character reveals but the gameplay is overlooked. Please set your expectations accordingly, people. The only mechanic we can tell that looks the same as Brawl is powershielding. Bowser powershielded Mario's attack (I forget which one atm) and was barely pushbacked from it which allowed him to do an OoS Fsmash (?)
The differences between Melee powershield and Brawl powershield are:
Brawl Powershield has a bigger window
Able to be buffered into
No pushback
Melee powershield has a smaller window
Not able to be buffered into
Has Pushback
Can reflect projectiles
And of course both aren't affected by shieldstun and you can drop the shield immediately from them.
So far, it has all of Brawl's traits including the same traits Melee introduced (no shieldstun, able to drop it immediately) except reflecting projectiles. If reflecting projectiles doesn't come back AGAIN, we have a problem.
It's the same thing all over again. People are hyped for the character reveals but the gameplay is overlooked. Please set your expectations accordingly, people. The only mechanic we can tell that looks the same as Brawl is powershielding. Bowser powershielded Mario's attack (I forget which one atm) and was barely pushbacked from it which allowed him to do an OoS Fsmash (?)
The differences between Melee powershield and Brawl powershield are:
Brawl Powershield has a bigger window
Able to be buffered into
No pushback
Melee powershield has a smaller window
Not able to be buffered into
Has Pushback
Can reflect projectiles
And of course both aren't affected by shieldstun and you can drop the shield immediately from them.
So far, it has all of Brawl's traits including the same traits Melee introduced (no shieldstun, able to drop it immediately) except reflecting projectiles. If reflecting projectiles doesn't come back AGAIN, we have a problem.
Orngeblu
Smash Ace
I'm really concerned about balancing. It seemed like all the vets had the same moveset. Pit has a (Dash attack?) new attack where he uses one of his arm weapon from Kid Icarus: Uprising (forgot the arm name, but ****ing cool he gets one of his weapons. Maybe it's one of Sakurai's favs)
MuraRengan
Banned via Warnings
I've been paying special attention to the jumps. It looks like characters spend less time in the air than in Brawl. That might mean less of the "floatiness" that was a big issue in Brawl. I'd like to see some jump frame comparisons.
Also, it looks like attacks have more knockback in general. I'd hold off on making any judgements based on that because attack properties are the ones most subject to change.
Also, it looks like attacks have more knockback in general. I'd hold off on making any judgements based on that because attack properties are the ones most subject to change.
O D I N
Smash Hero
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I can't tell what's going on in the trailer myself. I mean, I see stuff happening, but I think that since I've been out of the Smash scene for a while, I can't really tell what's doing what (competitively). Will just have to wait and see I guess.
-BOWSER HAS A NEW ****ING DROP KICK
-Pit cannot instantly go into flight mode off the ground. I wonder if it'll work like Project melee pit's side-b?
-Pit has a new firey uppercut looking move.
What I wanna know is what bowsers drop kick replaced.
If it's f-smash, that might be a good thing.
It had pretty ****ing decent start up for bowser, but a lot of recovery frames.
Bowser having a quick, REALLY EARLY kill move would be neat.
Village I don't know what to think of.
It looks like his recovery is using balloon to float back up. It looks realllly slow, but like it can cover a lot of distance. He may be really easy to hit out of it.
His pitfall shovel looked really quick, with decent recovery. Could make an awesome punish move.
The "tree cutting" move looked really strong, but it probably takes some kinda set up. Like you have to grow it first or something.
Bowling ball looks decent for punishing realllly low recoverys without having to go off stage. I kinda wanna see what the bowling ball does though when it's used on stage. Like, if it starts rolling and becomes a projectile.
-Pit cannot instantly go into flight mode off the ground. I wonder if it'll work like Project melee pit's side-b?
-Pit has a new firey uppercut looking move.
What I wanna know is what bowsers drop kick replaced.
If it's f-smash, that might be a good thing.
It had pretty ****ing decent start up for bowser, but a lot of recovery frames.
Bowser having a quick, REALLY EARLY kill move would be neat.
Village I don't know what to think of.
It looks like his recovery is using balloon to float back up. It looks realllly slow, but like it can cover a lot of distance. He may be really easy to hit out of it.
His pitfall shovel looked really quick, with decent recovery. Could make an awesome punish move.
The "tree cutting" move looked really strong, but it probably takes some kinda set up. Like you have to grow it first or something.
Bowling ball looks decent for punishing realllly low recoverys without having to go off stage. I kinda wanna see what the bowling ball does though when it's used on stage. Like, if it starts rolling and becomes a projectile.
D
Deleted member
Guest
At the end of the Megaman trailer you can clearly see Megaman SHORT HOP!, When the Villager drops a plant on Mario in the trailer, you can see a SHOCK/ELECTRIC effect is applied!, The Wii U version of Smash 4 looks MUCH faster paced than it's 3DS counterpart., Around 1:30 in, you can see the villager EDGE GUARDING and then you can see how fast mario flies when he gets hit by a tree. This could show Nintendo is aware of the more competitive community and it definitely shows the engine is modeled after Melee's.
http://smashboards.com/entries/smash-4-trailer-breakdown.4686/
http://smashboards.com/entries/smash-4-trailer-breakdown.4686/
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Ummm....no. I'll say it looks slightly faster than brawl but basically brawl 2.0. I'm still hopeful the gameplay was a result of an unfinished engine and thus using brawl's instead but it did not look like melee at all. And all games had short hop, and shock is in brawl too sooo....
I'll say this, I didn't see people getting hit and wiggling around for a long time so the stupid hit lag has been turned down, it's impossible to judge the hit stun because all moves were meant to kill and we have no clue what percent they were at. Watch the 3 person combo scene though, they didn't spend long in hit stun so that's a small plus.
http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/mario/screen-1.jpg
Yup.
Bowser still has his old f-tilt so Bowsers drop kick is his new f-smash I assume.
Yup.
Bowser still has his old f-tilt so Bowsers drop kick is his new f-smash I assume.
El Duderino
Smash Ace
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2.0 is even a bit generous. Little about the gameplay shown indicates they're expanding on the last installment.
But who knows, maybe in time they'll show some actual game defining changes. It's all pretty vanilla right now.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
It was probably a new sh-fair
TheTuninator
Smash Champion
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I'd be surprised if the gameplay balance is anything resembling a final product at this point, honestly.
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
I think this is just filler gameplay. The trailer was more like a the-game-exist-so-you-can-shut-up-about-it-now kind of thing. Nothing is really set in stone.
Except for Kirby's down-B. Because you know..he turns into a...nevermind >.>
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They did say a while back (I think last August) that they had finished the new engine, honestly I'd be surprised if it was still on Brawl's engine given the game having been in development since around February 2012.
It ain't. Watch the trailer when mario and bowser are fighting in the boxing arena.
He did it outta a perfect shield, and didn't go up in a SH arch. Like, not even close.
The only way it's a SH move is if it's like, a fall n stall or instantly stops all momentum like Lucario's d-air or something.
I'm certain it's a ground move.
War Anvil
Smash Lord
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Well, I don't know. I personally think that's a (GASP!) unique-input move.
If at least one character has at least one attack like that, I swear my brain will explode. I'm not expecting it though. Just saying it because tournament potential. :V
Bajef8
Smash Ace
So it looks as if Bowser might have anew running animation from the Dojo pictures of him. Kinda wish he looked more brutish like in Brawl. It seems the game has art that relates to the respective series now (IE Mario characters looking less realistic and more similar to their own games art and graphics), although the detail looks to be quite good. DK and Fox's fur look pretty good.
Revven
FrankerZ
I like the art style more than Brawl but... I still wish it was a vibrant as Melee.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
None of the previous trailers had item though.
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
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Perhaps a new running attack?
Uhh hey.
Anyone notice these screen shots of samus?
http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/samus/screen-3.jpg
Looks like her f-smash fires a small explosion now.
Long reaching hitbox? **** yea.
EDIT: Eyyy just watched the video V-K posted. Damn. Bowser got a huge overhaul!
AHH PIT TOO!.
His new shield move looks interesting.
"Wii fit trainer"
HOLY
****
...
I'm dying!
Anyone notice these screen shots of samus?
http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/samus/screen-3.jpg
Looks like her f-smash fires a small explosion now.
Long reaching hitbox? **** yea.
EDIT: Eyyy just watched the video V-K posted. Damn. Bowser got a huge overhaul!
AHH PIT TOO!.
His new shield move looks interesting.
"Wii fit trainer"
HOLY
****
...
I'm dying!
grizby2
Smash Lord
I saw the Spinning Kong still has super armor when used on the ground.
I definitely didn't see any TRIPPING that's for sure!
villager seems to have a move that allowed him to capture samus charged beam (maybe he can use it for later or maybe he just negates the beam entirely?)
in the fighting ring, bowser jumped differently, looked like a new jumping animation!
bowsers down-tilt seems to still hit twice at low %'s, and looks a TAD faster.
mega man's leaf shield lost leaves on two instances. 1) when it hit marios fire ball, 2) when leaf shield hit Mario. the leaves continued to pierce Mario and whent past him.
when mega man ducks to dodge samus's F-smash, theres a small fire ball that comes out of it. maybe her f-smash has a sweet spot now and possibly more range.
in the official site, samus's screen shots show samus using her f-smash and f-tilt, but they're noticeably tilted higher. so I guess we'll still be able to tilt some Smashes is up-middle-down directions.
lets keep poking around~
I definitely didn't see any TRIPPING that's for sure!
villager seems to have a move that allowed him to capture samus charged beam (maybe he can use it for later or maybe he just negates the beam entirely?)
in the fighting ring, bowser jumped differently, looked like a new jumping animation!
bowsers down-tilt seems to still hit twice at low %'s, and looks a TAD faster.
mega man's leaf shield lost leaves on two instances. 1) when it hit marios fire ball, 2) when leaf shield hit Mario. the leaves continued to pierce Mario and whent past him.
when mega man ducks to dodge samus's F-smash, theres a small fire ball that comes out of it. maybe her f-smash has a sweet spot now and possibly more range.
in the official site, samus's screen shots show samus using her f-smash and f-tilt, but they're noticeably tilted higher. so I guess we'll still be able to tilt some Smashes is up-middle-down directions.
lets keep poking around~
TheTuninator
Smash Champion
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Hopefully Bowser's actually decent in this game. I welcome an overhaul.