Chis
Finally a legend
Basically a thread where you ask for help and advice about a certain characters AT's, special attacks, recovery and more, and learn how to tackle them while contributing yourself and reading the rules first.
After seeing Tenki constantly telling other boards about Sonic's weakness with his AT, approaches and how to beat them, I thought I should make a topic discussing what other character's AT's, attacks, special attacks, recovery moves flaws. Ask about what attack you're having problems with and it'll be discussed. This is a bit like the other thread expect this one may be listed. And attacks to watch out for:
If you have a suggestion or an answer to someones problem please to make life easier quote their question.
RULES:
~Don't mention the whorenado
~Don't ask about any of the stuff that has been discussed and complied here
~Don't turn this into a spam or meme feast or I will report you
~Don't hijack my thread or lead this off topic
~Don't mention the whorenado Ike's forward smash
Example:
New stuff in red.
Index:
A smash happy Olimar
Bowser's side B (flying slam)
Diddy Kong's Bananas
Diddy's f smash
DK Cargo spike (stage spike)
Falco’s lasers
Game and Watch's Forward tilt & Forwards smash
Game and watch's Nair
Game and Watch's Turtle (bair)~
Gannon's stomp (Dair)
Ike's down smash
Ivysaur's bullet seed
Kirby's dash attack
Kirbyside
Lucarios' down smash
Lucas' PK thunder
Lucas’ PK attacks & PK thunder
Link's Zair
Ness’ throws and more PK thunder stuff
Peach’s float
Peach’s jabs
Pit's angel ring
Pikachu's down smash
Samus’ Dair to Dsmash/Uair
Samus’ Screw Attack
Snake's Mortar slide
Snake's Nair
R.O.B's Down smash
Toon Link's bair
Wario's bike
Wario's bite
Wariocide
Yoshi's egg roll
Yoshi's Recovery (...)
Zelda's forward smash
A smash happy Olimar~Sonic's dash attack seems to clank, from there its a quick ftilt (might not work though). But in the case when he up smashes when you approach, you could try to stop in front of him and d-tilt. Olimar's have a blind spot from a 45 degree angel up, but that's only if they're smash-happy.
Spinshot -> nair. Or.. maybe you could run at him, short hop over his attack when he tries to down or front smash you, and use a dair, nair, or bair.
Or just bait out an opportunity for a grab. Just as a quick guess on the Olimar thing... you could run in and shield grab, I think.
ASC, unless they know to up b, ASC should **** a smash happy oli, alternately, wait until they get a weak pikmin, yellow or white, and a full charge SC SHOULD hit through it SHOULD hit. Probably a better option. I think that if you hold forward when you do a spin dash attack... you might be able to start far enough away from a grab/smash, but still be able to hit Olimar upon landing:
Sprint in... cancel dash with spin dash (stopping a good distance away... hopefully drawing the attack/grab)through it
1.ASC
2. Dont get hit by up-b
3. ???
4. Profit!
Usually a smart Olimar will just grab you on approach. It's really hard to approach a Good Olimar, This fight could get frustrating as Sonic get's locked out on a lot of his attacks. Or.. maybe you could run at him, short hop over his attack.
You could run in and shield grab, I think.
for olimar, what if you tried to run, then stop, then spin dash and go over the smash attack with the hop/invincibility frames.But this is not advised since...?That can take too long...by the lag they're out of the Smash lag (this is F/DSMash), they can either grab you or just bring their shield up. The SDH is slow
Bowser's side B(flying slam)~You can control the DI (move it left or right) while he's doing this to you, but it's damage dependent. If you have more damage then Bowser, he gets more control over it and if he has te most damage you gain more control.
Ganondorf's stomp (dair)~I believe that you can DI the stomp to where you bounce up higher, allowing you more time to attack. Confermation?
Up air from the side is very good. Yeah Sonic's Uair when placed right will usually trade hits or hit him out, I'm not too sure but Uair is disjonited and long.
Diddy Kong's Bananas~Later....
Diddy kong's Forward smash~If you get hit with the first hit, try to DI out of the second hit because that's the one with the large knock back.
DK Cargo spike (stage spike)~Try not to get grapped, espeicall ynear the edge. If you do try to mash the contols stick left and right and mash the shield buttons. If he does manged to Carge spike you, tech it (use a wall jump tech, not a normall wall tech) and footstool DK.
Game and Watch's Forward tilt & Forwards smash~Shield the attack. Don't side step as they're out for a long duraction but forward smash's power is reduced. Forward smash has a bit of cool down on a side note.
Game and Watch's Nair(fish bowl)~As for G&W's Fishbowl (Nair) if you get caught in this, you won't be able to do anything unfortunately, it sends people pretty far away. Just learn his style and don't get hit is all I can tell you. But if you really want a way to counter this, I think Mr. Game & Watch has a blind spot under him when he does his Nair, hit him there if you happen to be under him. Bair is also a long-ranged attack if you happen to be on his side in the air and still not hit by his Nair. If you're on the ground, try to angle your Ftilt upwards.
GaWs n-air, DI ing up and away from it should make the damage you take from it minimal, spring if necessary.
Game and Watch's Turtle (bair)~A multi hit attack that can easly shield poke you. With a fresh sheild try and move your shield towards him to prevent getting poked. If you do get hit by the attack Smash DI yourself out of it.
GaW's back air, another alternative, is to shield all the hits and than right before he does the final hit (the one where he lands on the ground) you can spot dodge that last hit and punish with jab, and i believe, forward tilt and down tilt.
also, if youare hit with the beginning of it, you can DI and SDI up to keep from taking max damage from it, and possibly setting up for a counterattack
Ike's down smash~Ike swings his sword the other way when he's finished, good for punishing rolldodgers. Ike's whole body is the Hitbox for Down smash. For Ike, just don't be on the side he's swinging the sword, or spot dodge. Take note though as Ike's first Dsmash hit comes out very fast, you probably will be hit if you happen to be on the side and he just wants to throw it out. The good thing is that the ending lag after Ike's 2nd swing is noticeable, you can probably punish him with one of the fast moves before he gets a chance to recover from the lag.
Falco's lasers~ All falcos shoot lasers the same. They jump and shoot down. For the most part you can just run and shield cancel when you need to avoid them or even spot dodge. If they choose to spam just on the ground then try and get off a quick spin shot, spin dash jump (rolling or vertical) or even just short hop the lasers.
Simply put, they are using their projectile against you and therefore you must close in at least enough to make them change their tactic. You don't have to run up and grab them... you just have to get close enough to make them do something else.... you can even spring over the lasers or something. Just don't go straight for Falco then.
Ivysuar's bullet seed~Try to avoid it all together by shielding the start up of the attack. Then punish however if you do get caught you can DI and maybe Smash DI your way out of it as it's alot quicker.
Kirby's dash attack~A dash attack with multiply hits and knock back on the last hit. It's possible to DI out of the last hit's and not get hit but the rest and the last hit.
Kirbyside~Be carefull when a kiby is fall near te edge. They can fast fall and suck you up, leaving barely anytime for eascpe. Don't fall for the trap. They'll do this is they have a higher perceptage then you or they are a stock ahead of you. If you do get caught mash the control stick left and right to get out quicker.
-Spinshot over > Bair but yeah I always walk/run/spindash right into their gaping mouth. And iff they spit you out, then do homing attack to chase after them (they'll be too busy trying to recover to screw that up), and from there, spring back or something.
-If they are ledgehopping their swallow attack in an obvious suicide attempt, stage spike them.
walking back just slightly is good too.
Lucario's down smash~Good for punishing rolldodgers Lucario's Dsmash in the sense that Lucario's hits on both sides at once.
Countering it is not about being lucky as it is timing the attack. Lucario's Dsmash doesn't come out as fast as Ike's first Dsmash hit, and has some noticeable release lag (this is the animation that is seen after Lucario is done charging up his Dsmash, his wind-up lag is next to nothing.). You're best bet is to try to hit him with a VERY fast attack if you want to play it risky and hit him before the Palms come out to his sides. If you just want to spotdodge, Lucario will actually coil up before he shoves his hands out, try and watch what he looks like when he releases his Dsmash, if you know when it looks like, you'll be able to know when to spot dodge. From there you just have to act fast, as I am sure that Lucario's recovery lag is either the same or similar to Ike's. It's slow, but not too slow.
Lucas' PK thunder~You might be able to beat it with ASC or you could just intercept when he's in mid air or predict and punish the landing. Spring drop on the head of the PKT will kill it.
Lucas’ PK attacks & PK thunder~PKT is too slow. Run, jump, roll, whatever. PK fire jump or run away. Or SDR. Shield? You can also shield PK Fires as you approach Lucas.
Jump? Roll towards it?
It's a slow mover, so you can get around it most times.
- PK Fire - Spinshot overhead => bair? Or you could just charge him and shield a lot.
- PK Magnet -
- PK Freeze - If you get hit by this you should be feeling as embarrassed as the Lucas playing is feeling for using it.
- PK Thunder - Legitimate problem. Can't go wrong with just charging and shielding it as he tails you with it though.
lucass PKT is pretty annoying
If they're trying to whip you with the PKT, hit it on the head. HIT IT ON THE HEAD. You can use any aerial to do so (or ground attack I guess, lol), and with Sonic's speed you might even be able to punish the lag for using it.
Against Lucas can't you just try to drop a spring on the PKT if you are quick enough? You could, but I prefer running. On PKT2 however, drop a spring to give him a small distance recovery. That's true about the spring but it's more recommended to try that on Ness because his PK thunder doesn't go through like Lucas's PK thunder. If the head of the PK thunder hits the spring, the spring acts as an attack and it cancels out the PK thunder (for both Lucas and Ness).
Link's Zair~Large range with the ability to auto-cancel and hold a bomb this move can can provide quite a nuisance Don't side step it, shield it. And remember that if can only throw the bomb when the Zair cancels on landing. Try approaching with DAC and shield sliding.
Ness’ throws and more PK thunder stuff
After that he uses his throw D towards the stage.
You shield the attack, dodge the grab. In general, shielding should be your first line of defense against attacks, especially projectiles. It leaves you free to dodge if they try a second followup, especially a grab. Do whatever you can to get that grab in, we have a release CG on him
If Ness is trying to recover with PKT, just hump into it lol... Or jump down and smack the kid for trying....... but the timing is really tricky if you're not used to it; beware the PKT2 o_O Ness' PKT2 is stronger than a turn around warlock punch
Gimping
Against Ness, cant you just try to drop a spring on the PKT if you are quick enough? You could, but I prefer running. On PKT2 however, drop a spring to give him a small distance recovery. That's true about the spring but it's more recommended to try that on Ness because his PK thunder doesn't go through like Lucas's PK thunder.
If the head of the PK thunder hits the spring, the spring acts as an attack and it cancels out the PK thunder (for both Lucas and Ness).
The gimps that are unique vs Ness (don't work on Lucas) are:
- dropping below Ness and springing yourself into his PK thunder (risky, but funny when it works)
- dropping a spring in front of his PKT2 (body slam) - since it's a "single hit" kind of move, it slows down after hitting something once, so if Ness is really far off-stage, dropping it in front of his path will screw up/slow down his recovery.
Yeah but it's better on Ness his PK thunder doesn't go though.
Peach’s float Well spaced bairs seem to do the best job. Spaced Bairs can wreck Peach's Float. Try hitting her with another aerial/spin attack and she can simply Nair you out of it.
Dair is another option, you shouldn't get punished too much for that.
As for dealing with her Dair, Smash DI up. This allows you to jump out of it and sometimes, you can immediatly use Spring which is a free 4% damage on her. Utilt is amazing, but no one uses it .With it, if you miss it's less punishable than usmash because there's less ending lag. Utilt is disjoint anyway, it beats out so much stuff that you'd think it couldn't but people seem to ignore it. Space it right and it easily beats out dair/nair/bair.
Rember that they can't throw thrinps whilke floating she can't catch them either. So remember, unless she stops Floating/Z Drops --->aerial re catch, Peach will be using her aerials when Floating even if she has a Turnip in hand.
Replace spring with up air if your conifdent and 4 with 11 and you will have the best option.
Peach's Jabs~Starts on frame 2, so don’t get into a jab fight with her. Shield and punish.
Pit's Hyayayaya Angel ring~Angel Ring has a blind spot on the side the blades aren't circling. If you happen to get caught in his Angel ring DI away from it as much as possible. if he happened to miss you, then just hit him before he gets the chance to bring the blades back to him somehow. It has some ending lag, however it has a push back effect, it won't do any damage but it will shove you away from Pit.
If you DI the direction that the pit is sliding you will end up right outside his ring, the thing about the ring is that the outstretched hand that the swords revolve around, has a hurt box, so any decently ranged attack, (f-smash) will hit the hand thus beating the ring, and its easy to do since the ring doesn't stop till a good amount after the b button has stopped being mashed.
Pikachu's Down smash~You shouldn't be running into it with cancel able approaches and in the first place. If you get caught in one, DI (or samsh DI) up and away and spring if you feel the need.
R.O.B's Down smash~They usually do it out of a side step. If you get hit you can DI upwards out of it before it finishes. Becarefull though as they may try to up tilt/smash you.
Samus’ Dair to Dsmash/Uair~While it doesn't kill you always sends you flying for them to start spamming projectiles. Dair leads into a lot of things, Uairs, Up-Bs, Fsmash, UTilt, DTilt,
Down smash
As for Dair to Dsmash... the Dair is spiking you into the ground then you should be able to tech the landing, then shield the Dsmash... but that's just a thought.
Up air
Up air should be easy to DI out of, but other than, trying to out prioritise her, (hit her before her move starts) or just spring as fast as possible if that's not an option.
On another note, the down air combos seem to be inescapable, so in that case you should stop whiffing attacks or doing whatever else putts you in a snitch to get down aired.
Samus’ Screw Attack~For her up-B, make sure you're quarter circle-SDI'ing with the control stick along with mashing the C-stick, allowing it to reset to neutral between hits. That's the optimal way to SDI. About up b, you should DI toward whatever side you are getting hit from. i.e. if you are on the right side of samus when you get hit, DI to the right. but if the samus moves the up b to the right it seems like you wont be able to get out of it in that case, but yes, work on SDIing asap. Instead of thinking about how to get out of moves when they happen, which is important, you should also think about what put you in that postion to get hit by whatever hard-to-get-out-of move to begin with, it might help your game out more than anything. Practice doing all of that in smart bombs and stuff, you need to get your SDI techskill as fast as possible.
Snake's Mortar slide~Regular shield and face backwards- it will slow him down so you can grab as he passes you. He'll hit you, now grab and instantly back throw (so you don't get hit by the falling mortar). Otherwise, any grounded move that does within 10 damage of the initial slam will clang with it and if you're too far, then the initial slam will have finished, leaving you free to hit it with whatever you want.
Snake's Nair~If you get caught in it, you can DI yourself out before you get hit by the last hit. DI ing and SDI ing up, should keep you from taking the last hit with the rediculous knockback. overswarm made a video about it, i will try to find it
Toon Link's Bair~Due to its hit stun, this attack my be iirritatingt low percentages unless you DI away from source of the barrage. However Toon Link may double bair continously in the direction your DIing to. But DI away from Toon Link when he's doing this in genral and it'll make it harder for him to follow it up and buy you some space to escape with spring or something.
Wariocide~If they happen to know that you're going to try to recover yourself if their -cides don't work the first time and they just get back into position to suck you back up in, hyphen smash them. If they get you, mash really hard and spring when you get out.
Wario's bike~You have the choice of simple dashing away and jumping over him (don't get hit) or if he's dashing towards you use a simple homing attack should work. Camp above him. Getting of the ground for a start is great and if he wheelies go behind him, a lot of things can knock him off the bike, Usmash, dair, ASC, bair, Fair. Don't aim for the bike, aim for him. Most Warios will ride the bike for a while, then jump off when they're near the edge. Same thing if they're using it for recovery. Other suggestions include a well timed Dash attack cancel (invincible frames) or short hop Dair.
Against wario's bike a VSDJ has much stronger priority and even a spin dash (pop) beats the bike I believe... these options are much more direct than simply running away. I read your rules, but I had to post this.
Wario's bite~Stops ASC dead. There's a small opening between bites that you can take advantage of and hit. It's pretty good when you've got a spin charge waiting. Also uptilted forward smash should help and can be beaten B-air and D-tilt, which is a good alterative to charging a spin charge between bites.
Yoshi's egg roll~It's slow enough to shield the initial hit, and still grab out of shield. Yoshi's egg roll has higher priority than spin dash when it's going fast (when it has the yellow glow) and it has super low priority when it's going slower (when it is turning and has no glow). Spin charges and spin dashes have a higher priority than the Egg Roll when it's going slowly and the Ftilt MAY clang with it.
Try standing near the stage's edge, then spot dodge as the egg approaches you. They'll have to turn around since the stage is ending so as soon as you spot dodge c-stick a down smash and voila, the egg will roll into it and asplode.
Yoshi's Recovery~Later...
Zelda's Forward smash~If you get caught by the attack I think you should DI upwards/away from it. However somethings you can smash DI out of it but you could still be launched but just in another direction. Maybe to counter zelda's fsmash, you can do a dtilt since it's faster than its startup lag or, a simple jab :/.
Looking for information for:
Yoshi's recovery
ZSS UpB-Esacpaeble by 60%
Pikachu's QAC
=========================================================
Is there anything I got wrong?
Do you have more to add?
Tell me!
After seeing Tenki constantly telling other boards about Sonic's weakness with his AT, approaches and how to beat them, I thought I should make a topic discussing what other character's AT's, attacks, special attacks, recovery moves flaws. Ask about what attack you're having problems with and it'll be discussed. This is a bit like the other thread expect this one may be listed. And attacks to watch out for:
If you have a suggestion or an answer to someones problem please to make life easier quote their question.
~Don't mention the whorenado
~Don't ask about any of the stuff that has been discussed and complied here
~Don't turn this into a spam or meme feast or I will report you
~Don't hijack my thread or lead this off topic
~Don't mention the whorenado Ike's forward smash
Example:
~Stuff archived~
New stuff in red.
A smash happy Olimar
Bowser's side B (flying slam)
Diddy Kong's Bananas
Diddy's f smash
DK Cargo spike (stage spike)
Falco’s lasers
Game and Watch's Forward tilt & Forwards smash
Game and watch's Nair
Game and Watch's Turtle (bair)~
Gannon's stomp (Dair)
Ike's down smash
Ivysaur's bullet seed
Kirby's dash attack
Kirbyside
Lucarios' down smash
Lucas' PK thunder
Lucas’ PK attacks & PK thunder
Link's Zair
Ness’ throws and more PK thunder stuff
Peach’s float
Peach’s jabs
Pit's angel ring
Pikachu's down smash
Samus’ Dair to Dsmash/Uair
Samus’ Screw Attack
Snake's Mortar slide
Snake's Nair
R.O.B's Down smash
Toon Link's bair
Wario's bike
Wario's bite
Wariocide
Yoshi's egg roll
Yoshi's Recovery (...)
Zelda's forward smash
A smash happy Olimar~Sonic's dash attack seems to clank, from there its a quick ftilt (might not work though). But in the case when he up smashes when you approach, you could try to stop in front of him and d-tilt. Olimar's have a blind spot from a 45 degree angel up, but that's only if they're smash-happy. Spinshot -> nair. Or.. maybe you could run at him, short hop over his attack when he tries to down or front smash you, and use a dair, nair, or bair.
Or just bait out an opportunity for a grab. Just as a quick guess on the Olimar thing... you could run in and shield grab, I think.
ASC, unless they know to up b, ASC should **** a smash happy oli, alternately, wait until they get a weak pikmin, yellow or white, and a full charge SC SHOULD hit through it SHOULD hit. Probably a better option. I think that if you hold forward when you do a spin dash attack... you might be able to start far enough away from a grab/smash, but still be able to hit Olimar upon landing:
Sprint in... cancel dash with spin dash (stopping a good distance away... hopefully drawing the attack/grab)through it
1.ASC
2. Dont get hit by up-b
3. ???
4. Profit!
Usually a smart Olimar will just grab you on approach. It's really hard to approach a Good Olimar, This fight could get frustrating as Sonic get's locked out on a lot of his attacks. Or.. maybe you could run at him, short hop over his attack.
You could run in and shield grab, I think.
for olimar, what if you tried to run, then stop, then spin dash and go over the smash attack with the hop/invincibility frames.But this is not advised since...?That can take too long...by the lag they're out of the Smash lag (this is F/DSMash), they can either grab you or just bring their shield up. The SDH is slow
Bowser's side B(flying slam)~You can control the DI (move it left or right) while he's doing this to you, but it's damage dependent. If you have more damage then Bowser, he gets more control over it and if he has te most damage you gain more control.Ganondorf's stomp (dair)~I believe that you can DI the stomp to where you bounce up higher, allowing you more time to attack. Confermation?Up air from the side is very good. Yeah Sonic's Uair when placed right will usually trade hits or hit him out, I'm not too sure but Uair is disjonited and long.
Diddy Kong's Bananas~Later....Diddy kong's Forward smash~If you get hit with the first hit, try to DI out of the second hit because that's the one with the large knock back.DK Cargo spike (stage spike)~Try not to get grapped, espeicall ynear the edge. If you do try to mash the contols stick left and right and mash the shield buttons. If he does manged to Carge spike you, tech it (use a wall jump tech, not a normall wall tech) and footstool DK.Game and Watch's Forward tilt & Forwards smash~Shield the attack. Don't side step as they're out for a long duraction but forward smash's power is reduced. Forward smash has a bit of cool down on a side note. Game and Watch's Nair(fish bowl)~As for G&W's Fishbowl (Nair) if you get caught in this, you won't be able to do anything unfortunately, it sends people pretty far away. Just learn his style and don't get hit is all I can tell you. But if you really want a way to counter this, I think Mr. Game & Watch has a blind spot under him when he does his Nair, hit him there if you happen to be under him. Bair is also a long-ranged attack if you happen to be on his side in the air and still not hit by his Nair. If you're on the ground, try to angle your Ftilt upwards.GaWs n-air, DI ing up and away from it should make the damage you take from it minimal, spring if necessary.
Game and Watch's Turtle (bair)~A multi hit attack that can easly shield poke you. With a fresh sheild try and move your shield towards him to prevent getting poked. If you do get hit by the attack Smash DI yourself out of it.GaW's back air, another alternative, is to shield all the hits and than right before he does the final hit (the one where he lands on the ground) you can spot dodge that last hit and punish with jab, and i believe, forward tilt and down tilt.
also, if youare hit with the beginning of it, you can DI and SDI up to keep from taking max damage from it, and possibly setting up for a counterattack
Ike's down smash~Ike swings his sword the other way when he's finished, good for punishing rolldodgers. Ike's whole body is the Hitbox for Down smash. For Ike, just don't be on the side he's swinging the sword, or spot dodge. Take note though as Ike's first Dsmash hit comes out very fast, you probably will be hit if you happen to be on the side and he just wants to throw it out. The good thing is that the ending lag after Ike's 2nd swing is noticeable, you can probably punish him with one of the fast moves before he gets a chance to recover from the lag. Falco's lasers~ All falcos shoot lasers the same. They jump and shoot down. For the most part you can just run and shield cancel when you need to avoid them or even spot dodge. If they choose to spam just on the ground then try and get off a quick spin shot, spin dash jump (rolling or vertical) or even just short hop the lasers.Simply put, they are using their projectile against you and therefore you must close in at least enough to make them change their tactic. You don't have to run up and grab them... you just have to get close enough to make them do something else.... you can even spring over the lasers or something. Just don't go straight for Falco then.
Ivysuar's bullet seed~Try to avoid it all together by shielding the start up of the attack. Then punish however if you do get caught you can DI and maybe Smash DI your way out of it as it's alot quicker.Kirby's dash attack~A dash attack with multiply hits and knock back on the last hit. It's possible to DI out of the last hit's and not get hit but the rest and the last hit. Kirbyside~Be carefull when a kiby is fall near te edge. They can fast fall and suck you up, leaving barely anytime for eascpe. Don't fall for the trap. They'll do this is they have a higher perceptage then you or they are a stock ahead of you. If you do get caught mash the control stick left and right to get out quicker.-Spinshot over > Bair but yeah I always walk/run/spindash right into their gaping mouth. And iff they spit you out, then do homing attack to chase after them (they'll be too busy trying to recover to screw that up), and from there, spring back or something.
-If they are ledgehopping their swallow attack in an obvious suicide attempt, stage spike them.
walking back just slightly is good too.
Lucario's down smash~Good for punishing rolldodgers Lucario's Dsmash in the sense that Lucario's hits on both sides at once.Countering it is not about being lucky as it is timing the attack. Lucario's Dsmash doesn't come out as fast as Ike's first Dsmash hit, and has some noticeable release lag (this is the animation that is seen after Lucario is done charging up his Dsmash, his wind-up lag is next to nothing.). You're best bet is to try to hit him with a VERY fast attack if you want to play it risky and hit him before the Palms come out to his sides. If you just want to spotdodge, Lucario will actually coil up before he shoves his hands out, try and watch what he looks like when he releases his Dsmash, if you know when it looks like, you'll be able to know when to spot dodge. From there you just have to act fast, as I am sure that Lucario's recovery lag is either the same or similar to Ike's. It's slow, but not too slow.
Lucas' PK thunder~You might be able to beat it with ASC or you could just intercept when he's in mid air or predict and punish the landing. Spring drop on the head of the PKT will kill it. Lucas’ PK attacks & PK thunder~PKT is too slow. Run, jump, roll, whatever. PK fire jump or run away. Or SDR. Shield? You can also shield PK Fires as you approach Lucas.Jump? Roll towards it?
It's a slow mover, so you can get around it most times.
- PK Fire - Spinshot overhead => bair? Or you could just charge him and shield a lot.
- PK Magnet -
- PK Freeze - If you get hit by this you should be feeling as embarrassed as the Lucas playing is feeling for using it.
- PK Thunder - Legitimate problem. Can't go wrong with just charging and shielding it as he tails you with it though.
lucass PKT is pretty annoying
If they're trying to whip you with the PKT, hit it on the head. HIT IT ON THE HEAD. You can use any aerial to do so (or ground attack I guess, lol), and with Sonic's speed you might even be able to punish the lag for using it.
Against Lucas can't you just try to drop a spring on the PKT if you are quick enough? You could, but I prefer running. On PKT2 however, drop a spring to give him a small distance recovery. That's true about the spring but it's more recommended to try that on Ness because his PK thunder doesn't go through like Lucas's PK thunder. If the head of the PK thunder hits the spring, the spring acts as an attack and it cancels out the PK thunder (for both Lucas and Ness).
Link's Zair~Large range with the ability to auto-cancel and hold a bomb this move can can provide quite a nuisance Don't side step it, shield it. And remember that if can only throw the bomb when the Zair cancels on landing. Try approaching with DAC and shield sliding. Ness’ throws and more PK thunder stuffAfter that he uses his throw D towards the stage.
You shield the attack, dodge the grab. In general, shielding should be your first line of defense against attacks, especially projectiles. It leaves you free to dodge if they try a second followup, especially a grab. Do whatever you can to get that grab in, we have a release CG on him
If Ness is trying to recover with PKT, just hump into it lol... Or jump down and smack the kid for trying....... but the timing is really tricky if you're not used to it; beware the PKT2 o_O Ness' PKT2 is stronger than a turn around warlock punch
Gimping
Against Ness, cant you just try to drop a spring on the PKT if you are quick enough? You could, but I prefer running. On PKT2 however, drop a spring to give him a small distance recovery. That's true about the spring but it's more recommended to try that on Ness because his PK thunder doesn't go through like Lucas's PK thunder.
If the head of the PK thunder hits the spring, the spring acts as an attack and it cancels out the PK thunder (for both Lucas and Ness).
The gimps that are unique vs Ness (don't work on Lucas) are:
- dropping below Ness and springing yourself into his PK thunder (risky, but funny when it works)
- dropping a spring in front of his PKT2 (body slam) - since it's a "single hit" kind of move, it slows down after hitting something once, so if Ness is really far off-stage, dropping it in front of his path will screw up/slow down his recovery.
Yeah but it's better on Ness his PK thunder doesn't go though.
Peach’s float Well spaced bairs seem to do the best job. Spaced Bairs can wreck Peach's Float. Try hitting her with another aerial/spin attack and she can simply Nair you out of it.Dair is another option, you shouldn't get punished too much for that.
As for dealing with her Dair, Smash DI up. This allows you to jump out of it and sometimes, you can immediatly use Spring which is a free 4% damage on her. Utilt is amazing, but no one uses it .With it, if you miss it's less punishable than usmash because there's less ending lag. Utilt is disjoint anyway, it beats out so much stuff that you'd think it couldn't but people seem to ignore it. Space it right and it easily beats out dair/nair/bair.
Rember that they can't throw thrinps whilke floating she can't catch them either. So remember, unless she stops Floating/Z Drops --->aerial re catch, Peach will be using her aerials when Floating even if she has a Turnip in hand.
Replace spring with up air if your conifdent and 4 with 11 and you will have the best option.
Peach's Jabs~Starts on frame 2, so don’t get into a jab fight with her. Shield and punish.Pit's If you DI the direction that the pit is sliding you will end up right outside his ring, the thing about the ring is that the outstretched hand that the swords revolve around, has a hurt box, so any decently ranged attack, (f-smash) will hit the hand thus beating the ring, and its easy to do since the ring doesn't stop till a good amount after the b button has stopped being mashed.
Pikachu's Down smash~You shouldn't be running into it with cancel able approaches and in the first place. If you get caught in one, DI (or samsh DI) up and away and spring if you feel the need.R.O.B's Down smash~They usually do it out of a side step. If you get hit you can DI upwards out of it before it finishes. Becarefull though as they may try to up tilt/smash you.Samus’ Dair to Dsmash/Uair~While it doesn't kill you always sends you flying for them to start spamming projectiles. Dair leads into a lot of things, Uairs, Up-Bs, Fsmash, UTilt, DTilt, Down smash
As for Dair to Dsmash... the Dair is spiking you into the ground then you should be able to tech the landing, then shield the Dsmash... but that's just a thought.
Up air
Up air should be easy to DI out of, but other than, trying to out prioritise her, (hit her before her move starts) or just spring as fast as possible if that's not an option.
On another note, the down air combos seem to be inescapable, so in that case you should stop whiffing attacks or doing whatever else putts you in a snitch to get down aired.
Samus’ Screw Attack~For her up-B, make sure you're quarter circle-SDI'ing with the control stick along with mashing the C-stick, allowing it to reset to neutral between hits. That's the optimal way to SDI. About up b, you should DI toward whatever side you are getting hit from. i.e. if you are on the right side of samus when you get hit, DI to the right. but if the samus moves the up b to the right it seems like you wont be able to get out of it in that case, but yes, work on SDIing asap. Instead of thinking about how to get out of moves when they happen, which is important, you should also think about what put you in that postion to get hit by whatever hard-to-get-out-of move to begin with, it might help your game out more than anything. Practice doing all of that in smart bombs and stuff, you need to get your SDI techskill as fast as possible. Snake's Mortar slide~Regular shield and face backwards- it will slow him down so you can grab as he passes you. He'll hit you, now grab and instantly back throw (so you don't get hit by the falling mortar). Otherwise, any grounded move that does within 10 damage of the initial slam will clang with it and if you're too far, then the initial slam will have finished, leaving you free to hit it with whatever you want.Snake's Nair~If you get caught in it, you can DI yourself out before you get hit by the last hit. DI ing and SDI ing up, should keep you from taking the last hit with the rediculous knockback. overswarm made a video about it, i will try to find itToon Link's Bair~Due to its hit stun, this attack my be iirritatingt low percentages unless you DI away from source of the barrage. However Toon Link may double bair continously in the direction your DIing to. But DI away from Toon Link when he's doing this in genral and it'll make it harder for him to follow it up and buy you some space to escape with spring or something. Wariocide~If they happen to know that you're going to try to recover yourself if their -cides don't work the first time and they just get back into position to suck you back up in, hyphen smash them. If they get you, mash really hard and spring when you get out.Wario's bike~You have the choice of simple dashing away and jumping over him (don't get hit) or if he's dashing towards you use a simple homing attack should work. Camp above him. Getting of the ground for a start is great and if he wheelies go behind him, a lot of things can knock him off the bike, Usmash, dair, ASC, bair, Fair. Don't aim for the bike, aim for him. Most Warios will ride the bike for a while, then jump off when they're near the edge. Same thing if they're using it for recovery. Other suggestions include a well timed Dash attack cancel (invincible frames) or short hop Dair. Against wario's bike a VSDJ has much stronger priority and even a spin dash (pop) beats the bike I believe... these options are much more direct than simply running away. I read your rules, but I had to post this.
Wario's bite~Stops ASC dead. There's a small opening between bites that you can take advantage of and hit. It's pretty good when you've got a spin charge waiting. Also uptilted forward smash should help and can be beaten B-air and D-tilt, which is a good alterative to charging a spin charge between bites.Yoshi's egg roll~It's slow enough to shield the initial hit, and still grab out of shield. Yoshi's egg roll has higher priority than spin dash when it's going fast (when it has the yellow glow) and it has super low priority when it's going slower (when it is turning and has no glow). Spin charges and spin dashes have a higher priority than the Egg Roll when it's going slowly and the Ftilt MAY clang with it.Try standing near the stage's edge, then spot dodge as the egg approaches you. They'll have to turn around since the stage is ending so as soon as you spot dodge c-stick a down smash and voila, the egg will roll into it and asplode.
Yoshi's Recovery~Later...Zelda's Forward smash~If you get caught by the attack I think you should DI upwards/away from it. However somethings you can smash DI out of it but you could still be launched but just in another direction. Maybe to counter zelda's fsmash, you can do a dtilt since it's faster than its startup lag or, a simple jab :/.Looking for information for:
Yoshi's recovery
ZSS UpB-Esacpaeble by 60%
Pikachu's QAC
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