Dr. Mario buff/nerf poll.

[JehJehKeyblade]

I can't tell whether our friend "The Doc" was nerfed or buffed. I don't mind either, I'd just like your opinion.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Hard to tell because it's a different game. Buffed in that his OoS is more useful, Dr. Tornado has great priority, and his customs give him better options depending on character MU. Nerfed in that he is less mobile, default pills have more ending lag, and that nair isn't as strong anymore. Either way, he is still a viable character.

 

[Kisatamura]

I mean, technically since he lost many of the advanced techniques that everyone had access to in Melee. But Doc really was changed from Melee to Smash 4, gaining most of the Brawl physics/techniques while getting further differences in his moveset, such as Dr. Tornado and Super Jump Punch changing into killmoves. Really, his only nerfs that weren't AT related was that his aerial speed is worse than Mario's in this game, his poor mobility and pills losing most of their damage.

But nerfed in general? Possibly. But the ssbwiki is wrong on that Doc also gained some pretty cool buffs. Or I may just be salty that they removed one of my edits on that page about his AT changes from Melee... ;_;

 

[KenMeister]

Probably neither. Doc has better tools up-close for keeping foes off of him, mostly because of better KB (jab, ftilt, upB OoS), and gained higher priority in moves like dair and Nado. His killing power is also better minus down smash (RIP Melee dsmash). His recovery got worse though, and his mobility nerf in general doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of sense, especially since characters with that sort of mobility, like Ganon, have better range and kill power.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'd go for nerf. While Doc is a completely different character in comparison to Melee, his nerf in mobility just hurts way too much. When you have such short range, being among the slowest in the game is face-palm inducing.

Doc desperately needs less cooldown frames on his pills. If he had that he'd sit comfortably in Mid tier. D-throw reliably connecting with F-air and Up-B having more damage (perhaps +2%) would make him top of Mid tier.

 

[Raijinken]

If his recovery was better, I'd say he was at least neutral. But his recovery is just too bad.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

You know, now that I'm playing him in SSB4 alongside Melee, I'd say nerf. All the things that made him better than Mario are either gone, or have to be sweetspotted. I get that Sakurai didn't like clones, but if he wanted Dr. Mario THAT different, he could've gone for Luigification. Or an alt costume.

 

[MarioMeteor]

If he just had a recovery... Yes he was nerfed from Melee, but he did get his fair share of buffs too, but my God if he just had a recovery...

 

[Izanagi97]

 

[MonkeyArms]

that compared his airiel attacks very nicely.

 

[Doctor_Mario]

He has been nerfed. Wavedashing helped him a ton in Melee, now, not so much.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

You know, I see how wavedashes can help him now.

 

[Xcelerator]

Although I never played Melee competitively, I do feel that PhD is worse in SmashWiiU compared to his Melee counterpart. Nothing changed moveset-wise from what I can tell, but Melee's physics just favored PhD more I think

 

[ToTs]

I still think to this day wavedashing would help so many characters, Doc being one.

Melee Doc
-Access to wavedashing
-UpB Cancels OoS
-Nair is stronger the longer the hitbox is out.
-Down B seems better for recovery
-Jab MAY have more hitstun
-Down Throw ~ Fair. Reliable True combo (certain %)
-UTilt was better

Sm4sh Doc
-Dash Attack with 0% running momentum
-Down B great in neutral (combo potential)
-Ledge Cape Cancels
-Reverse Up B Ledge Cancels

Did I miss anything?

the bottom line is Wavedashing negated Doc's ground speed.

I honestly think melee Doc is better, but I still think Sm4sh Doc is overlooked/underrated

 

[Yoshister]

I think Dr. Mario's recovery was nerfed (No cape stall at all, less distance with down-b, and I think his up-b gets less distance now) and the new physics force him to play a defensive game despite his power (Though the new rolls make punishing easier) which makes doing well as him harder. I think the Doc was nerfed somewhat, but I think he's still a decent character.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

The one thing I want to mention is that essentially every character in the game was "nerfed" from melee technically speaking. But that just takes away from some characters more than others

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I miss Doc's pills doing 8% in Melee. Overall, he's definitely nerfed in this game, but I feel this game is better overall, so it's even. I'd have loved for them to have either buffed Doc in Smash 4 or left him mostly the same from Melee (and real powerhouse). Instead, he's a lesser version of Mario and Doc should never be a lesser version..... he's got a freakin' Ph.D for crying out loud!!!

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

I'd say Neither because Melee and Smash 4 are so different (also why I think the whole Melee vs. Smash 4 argument is stupid)
Because of no wavedashing, nerfed, but Doc Tornado is actually useful now, buff. Bad recovery? Always been there. I get shine spiked 3/4 stocks when playing against my Fox main friend. (Which is a good thing, get the most popular matchup I'll face)
So, Doc is still a good character. Just a worse Mario in Smash 4 terms. Which is ironic, seeing as in Melee Doc is a better Mario.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Holy **** I am missing a ton of pronouns

 

[Doc Mario]

Doc got nerfed in this game, his pills should do at least 6.5% damage a piece and his running speed is beyond terrible in this game which is not good considering he was stronger and faster in Melee. Definitely a nerf, BUT! Some odd reason I like him better in this game, maybe it's his design and taunts.... and that one victory pose when he rubs his chin.

Also, about the recovery it's not half as bad a people say it is, the Super Sheet doesn't hold you up anymore so what? He actually has faster air speed in this game (believe it or not) and the ability to jump higher, Dr.Tornado also has less ending lag which lets him act out of it sooner so use it before your double jump for recovery if you're a distance away from the stage. (I know he can't tornado twice just tornado before your double jump) I think his recovery was buffed in this game but that's about it.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

Well, now that this thread has been replied to enough, AND looking at the votes, I'm sure we all have the same opinion.
At least one attribute or more has made Dr. Mario give his Doctorate up for a Bachelor's.

But then again, a degree is still a degree. He can do SOMETHING.

 

[Gamefreak561]

Im a Doc main in melee and Smash 4. I will be honest, melee doc is better due to melee physics. If Smash 4 had the melee physics, doc wouldnt be as low tier as he is now due to wave dashing helping him alot and his notable buff in killing power in which exceeds even Mario. All in all, Smash 4 Doc is still good and he just needs to be in the right hands. If anything, he does need a slight buff mostly being his dthrow having more hitstun so he can get the fair follow up for killing or uair or bair strings, Dair having less endlag and a bit faster start up time (with the less endlag he can dair to grab to any follow up without being punished like his current dair), fair coming out a bit faster, and have his down b to have less endlag so while he is at the apex of the attack, he can double jump out of it gaining the extra height he gets from it. Small changes like that and believe me he can be at most high mid tier.

 

[Doc Mario]

Im a Doc main in melee and Smash 4. I will be honest, melee doc is better due to melee physics. If Smash 4 had the melee physics, doc wouldnt be as low tier as he is now due to wave dashing helping him alot and his notable buff in killing power in which exceeds even Mario. All in all, Smash 4 Doc is still good and he just needs to be in the right hands. If anything, he does need a slight buff mostly being his dthrow having more hitstun so he can get the fair follow up for killing or uair or bair strings, Dair having less endlag and a bit faster start up time (with the less endlag he can dair to grab to any follow up without being punished like his current dair), fair coming out a bit faster, and have his down b to have less endlag so while he is at the apex of the attack, he can double jump out of it gaining the extra height he gets from it. Small changes like that and believe me he can be at most high mid tier.

Doc's definitely not low tier, don't believe that garbage this game is just getting started, he's not as near as good as Mario but he isn't trash. I know that for sure

 

[sovereigntea]

Buffed. I feel like every character was buffed but some more than others. Dr. Mario's buffs were relatively mild and to a great extent cancelled out by the nerf to vitamins

 

[speedguy20]

Doc is basically Lil Mac off the stage now. Nerfed like there was no tomorrow.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Doc is basically Lil Mac off the stage now. Nerfed like there was no tomorrow.

How can you compare the two?

 

[speedguy20]

How can you compare the two?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW1wFV4WTxE

 

[WeirdJoe27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW1wFV4WTxE

That's oversimplifying recovery. If you recovery just by using jumps and up special, you're going to have a bad time. Doc's Tornado greatly increases his recovery (both vertical and horizontal). Thus, comparing his and Mac's recovery is apples and oranges.

 

[Doc Mario]

That's oversimplifying recovery. If you recovery just by using jumps and up special, you're going to have a bad time. Doc's Tornado greatly increases his recovery (both vertical and horizontal). Thus, comparing his and Mac's recovery is apples and oranges.

Don't even respond to him, he's clearly one of those inexperienced smash players who say Doc's recovery is worse than Ganon's/ Little Mac.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

Don't even respond to him, he's clearly one of those inexperienced smash players who say Doc's recovery is worse than Ganon's/ Little Mac.

I secondary as Ganondorf, and I can agree that Dr. Mario has a MUCH better recovery than Ganondorf. Even with customs on.

 

[ShadowKing]

Doc might have gotten nerf but his recovery off stage is still in good shape.Plus his meter actually kills earlier from a match I had against a DK

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Doc might have gotten nerf but his recovery off stage is still in good shape.Plus his meter actually kills earlier from a match I had against a DK

What "meter"? Meteor? Doc doesn't have one.

Doc's recovery is poor overall, but it's much better than people give it credit for.

 

[ShadowKing]

What "meter"? Meteor? Doc doesn't have one.

Doc's recovery is poor overall, but it's much better than people give it credit for.

Actually his fair is consider to be a meteormeteor
Because logically when doing docs Fair or meteor it dosent sent them down but upward from one slow strong hit like mario

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Actually his fair is consider to be a meteormeteor
Because logically when doing docs Fair or meteor it dosent sent them down but upward from one slow strong hit like mario

No. A meteor smash is a move that sends someone straight down when connecting with it (or connecting with the right spot). Doc's fair is not a meteor. Mario's fair is a meteor smash, as the sweetspot sends people straight down.

 

[Doc Mario]

Doc might have gotten nerf but his recovery off stage is still in good shape.Plus his meter actually kills earlier from a match I had against a DK

It's nice to see someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to Docs recovery, I say it's better than his melee recovery.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

It's nice to see someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to Docs recovery, I say it's better than his melee recovery.

It WOULD be if the Sheet stalled him in the air.

 

[Doc Mario]

It WOULD be if the Sheet stalled him in the air.

Just like predicted, someone threw the whole super sheet excuse at me. It doesn't make that much of a difference like who the heck uses the cape when they're trying to recover with Mario? Nobody, that's pointless

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

It doesn't make that much of a difference like who the heck uses the cape when they're trying to recover with Mario? Nobody, that's pointless

A LOT of people use the Cape to recover. It's even considered a nerf that Dr. Mario's Sheet doesn't stall like Mario's.

 

[Doc Mario]

A LOT of people use the Cape to recover. It's even considered a nerf that Dr. Mario's Sheet doesn't stall like Mario's.

I'll say this, it's harder to cape people with the sheet now but that's it.

 

[ShadowKing]

No. A meteor smash is a move sends someone straight down when connecting with it (or connecting with the right spot). Doc's fair is not a meteor. Mario's fair is a meteor smash, as the sweetspot sends people straight down.

then you dont play doc many competive smashers consider a meteor