apaulieg
Smash Rookie
Note: I edited this post. The original included my thought that Dr. Mario could be the original echo - but I had totally forgotten about Smash64, and the first two commenters reminded me of it!
In Melee, almost every one of Dr. Mario’s attacks uses nearly the exact same animations, but the properties of each hit are slightly different (different launch angles and knockback amounts, different damage or elemental effects, etc.). He has nearly identical frame data to Mario with slightly altered speed and a slightly worse recovery. That seems almost exactly how echoes function in this game.
Smash Ultimate revealed two of Sm4sh's clones as Echo Fighters: Dark Pit and Lucina - yet Dr. Mario was shown to be a unique fighter. His gameplay preview seems to show at least one new attack, his down air, being a stomp - yet the other gameplay we'd seen until yesterday was minimal. The treehouse session after the latest direct DOES show some Dr. Mario gameplay, and in it, he seems shockingly similar to Mario. His Doc Tornado is smaller and has more Priority than Luigi's, and from the gameplay, I saw a new back throw, a cape/sheet that hits at a different angle, and a new down aerial as all I saw that was new - he is slower and recovers worse than Mario but definitely has some oomph behind his attacks.
But at the same time, we've seen Chrom pull from Ike's up-special as opposed to his echo, Roy, and we just had a direct that shows Ken having various kicking attacks based upon his unique entries in Street Fighter, a differently functioning multi-hit version of Ryu's side special and up special, a kicking version of Ryu's down special, a different back throw, a different-looking neutral special, different movement speeds, and two unique final smashes. Yet Ken is an echo.
Doctor Mario uses the same skeleton as Mario, has incredibly similar but reskinned and slightly altered specials with the exception of his down special - pulled from another character, Luigi - one identifiably different aerial, and different attributes and attack properties (knockback, special effects, etc.). I can't help but feel like Ken is less of an echo to Ryu than Dr. Mario is to Mario.
So what gives? I'm happy to have Dr. Mario in the roster, and I'm even happy that he's a unique character - he just doesn't feel as unique as even some of the echo fighters are. To anyone who has watched the Treehouse Live gameplay, am I missing any tremendously different tilts/smashes/aerials? Am I overstating Ken's differences? Are echoes limited to totally different characters and not alternate forms of the same (like Mario/Dr. Mario or Toon Link/Young Link)? Why do you think Dr. Mario is NOT an echo of Mario?
In Melee, almost every one of Dr. Mario’s attacks uses nearly the exact same animations, but the properties of each hit are slightly different (different launch angles and knockback amounts, different damage or elemental effects, etc.). He has nearly identical frame data to Mario with slightly altered speed and a slightly worse recovery. That seems almost exactly how echoes function in this game.
Smash Ultimate revealed two of Sm4sh's clones as Echo Fighters: Dark Pit and Lucina - yet Dr. Mario was shown to be a unique fighter. His gameplay preview seems to show at least one new attack, his down air, being a stomp - yet the other gameplay we'd seen until yesterday was minimal. The treehouse session after the latest direct DOES show some Dr. Mario gameplay, and in it, he seems shockingly similar to Mario. His Doc Tornado is smaller and has more Priority than Luigi's, and from the gameplay, I saw a new back throw, a cape/sheet that hits at a different angle, and a new down aerial as all I saw that was new - he is slower and recovers worse than Mario but definitely has some oomph behind his attacks.
But at the same time, we've seen Chrom pull from Ike's up-special as opposed to his echo, Roy, and we just had a direct that shows Ken having various kicking attacks based upon his unique entries in Street Fighter, a differently functioning multi-hit version of Ryu's side special and up special, a kicking version of Ryu's down special, a different back throw, a different-looking neutral special, different movement speeds, and two unique final smashes. Yet Ken is an echo.
Doctor Mario uses the same skeleton as Mario, has incredibly similar but reskinned and slightly altered specials with the exception of his down special - pulled from another character, Luigi - one identifiably different aerial, and different attributes and attack properties (knockback, special effects, etc.). I can't help but feel like Ken is less of an echo to Ryu than Dr. Mario is to Mario.
So what gives? I'm happy to have Dr. Mario in the roster, and I'm even happy that he's a unique character - he just doesn't feel as unique as even some of the echo fighters are. To anyone who has watched the Treehouse Live gameplay, am I missing any tremendously different tilts/smashes/aerials? Am I overstating Ken's differences? Are echoes limited to totally different characters and not alternate forms of the same (like Mario/Dr. Mario or Toon Link/Young Link)? Why do you think Dr. Mario is NOT an echo of Mario?
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