Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4

[Andarel]

Bit of an issue - if we assume Wisp dies early, 8 or 9 hits of about 12% each should be a stock - and that's only 27%, a quarter of the way to maximum charge. Even if you turn 10 times and block 5 attacks (and since Wisp likes to dodge more than block...), that's only at best 42%, halfway to maximum charge. Since it's only a kill move now, compare it to, say, the Waft.

- They both take forever to charge up.
- The Waft does 25 - 45 damage at higher charges, so even if it doesn't kill it sets up for a future kill pretty quickly.
- Side-B, if it does negligible damage, has moderate risk and almost no reward unless it kills. That means you have no reason to use it once it gets to higher charge levels, except to grab a kill - and if you hit max at the beginning of a stock, that'll take a while. Dead move most of the time. At least Samus and Lucario can empty their charge at the beginning of the stock for 20%+.

Even worse, Wario's waft always charges. Rewarding one of the lightest characters in the game doesn't seem like the way to go about things. What would be ideal is, hopefully, to give 3% or 4% on the hit of any move, 3% on the blocking of a move, and 1% on turning. That rewards turning, but it also rewards playing Wisp successfully, since you actually want to hit with moves. And since she kills pretty high, you can either go for the gimp or go for a kill and charge side-B more. This would also reward playing on the ground more, since you can't turn or shield in the air.


Up-B in the air isn't that fast, and having it spike would be reasonable stylistically and not a bad idea for her playstyle - it doesn't kill most recoveries anyways (maybe like...Marth's, but not that easily and f/bair work just as well on a stagespike).


Her aerials play very well, as do most of her tilts - Utilt is a bit awkward, but I've gotten used to it. I think USmash could do with being a tad faster, grab a tad slower, and Down-B a lot more useful. So far, it's just been trash every time I tried to use it - perhaps extending the initial hitbox, speeding up the charge, and boosting the low-charge hits slightly would help. I'd like to see little tremors travel along the ground close to Wisp that trip as she charges (like Quake Hammer), but that would be obnoxious in a FFA so it's probably a bad idea.

 

[CyberKun]

Regarding Side+B (I assume you mean charge level 0) that is a bit disconcerting... do you think having a solid poke is too good for Wisp?

The problem isn't the poke, it is the huge priority it has. It has higher priority than a lot of moves that should beat Wisp. I remember Sonic and his SideB. Even with Sonic in a full roll, Wisp has better priority. That is just silly. The poke itself is fine, just the priority needs to be lowered. (Also yes I'm talking about lvl 0.)

Side-B though, it needs to be possible to get a full charge and not by not using Side-B for minutes. That charge needs to be fasterrrr!

I can't really think of what to add on now, but once others comment I can figure more to say.

I am also able to host the next version as well, so no worries about that.

 

[Eldiran]

Bit of an issue - if we assume Wisp dies early, 8 or 9 hits of about 12% each should be a stock - and that's only 27%, a quarter of the way to maximum charge. Even if you turn 10 times and block 5 attacks (and since Wisp likes to dodge more than block...), that's only at best 42%, halfway to maximum charge. Since it's only a kill move now, compare it to, say, the Waft.

- They both take forever to charge up.
- The Waft does 25 - 45 damage at higher charges, so even if it doesn't kill it sets up for a future kill pretty quickly.
- Side-B, if it does negligible damage, has moderate risk and almost no reward unless it kills. That means you have no reason to use it once it gets to higher charge levels, except to grab a kill - and if you hit max at the beginning of a stock, that'll take a while. Dead move most of the time. At least Samus and Lucario can empty their charge at the beginning of the stock for 20%+.

Even worse, Wario's waft always charges. Rewarding one of the lightest characters in the game doesn't seem like the way to go about things. What would be ideal is, hopefully, to give 3% or 4% on the hit of any move, 3% on the blocking of a move, and 1% on turning. That rewards turning, but it also rewards playing Wisp successfully, since you actually want to hit with moves. And since she kills pretty high, you can either go for the gimp or go for a kill and charge side-B more. This would also reward playing on the ground more, since you can't turn or shield in the air.

This is an excellent analysis of Side+B and it's totally true. Alas, I can't implement gains on a hit by Wisp.

However, I think I may be able to have it so that, say, when you take 12% damage, you get 12 points. What say you? Reasonable?

Up-B in the air isn't that fast, and having it spike would be reasonable stylistically and not a bad idea for her playstyle - it doesn't kill most recoveries anyways (maybe like...Marth's, but not that easily and f/bair work just as well on a stagespike).

Technically, the Up+B can spike with that difficult to hit with lightning hitbox. But if I find Wisp lacking after all this, I might give her a spike... though I think I'd sooner make the aerial Down+B do that.

Her aerials play very well, as do most of her tilts - Utilt is a bit awkward, but I've gotten used to it. I think USmash could do with being a tad faster, grab a tad slower, and Down-B a lot more useful. So far, it's just been trash every time I tried to use it - perhaps extending the initial hitbox, speeding up the charge, and boosting the low-charge hits slightly would help. I'd like to see little tremors travel along the ground close to Wisp that trip as she charges (like Quake Hammer), but that would be obnoxious in a FFA so it's probably a bad idea.

Thanks -- I'm glad to hear the moves work well. With this next version, I've slowed grab and given the ability to shield out of Down+B. Think that would suffice?

The problem isn't the poke, it is the huge priority it has. It has higher priority than a lot of moves that should beat Wisp. I remember Sonic and his SideB. Even with Sonic in a full roll, Wisp has better priority. That is just silly. The poke itself is fine, just the priority needs to be lowered. (Also yes I'm talking about lvl 0.)

Hum. I really wish I knew how to change the priority in flags. Every explanation I've gotten for it has been conflicting and unclear.

Regardless, I'll experiment with it. It shouldn't be busting through any other moves, particularly any that do over 11% -- it only does 2% after all.

I am also able to host the next version as well, so no worries about that.

Ah, thanks. But Mediafire seems to have recovered from whatever was afflicting it; I've been able to upload files lately. If it goes down again I'll contact you.

 

[Sudai]

I haven't played in forever, so no updates on Wisp from my perspective, but I lovelovelove Cyber's idea for Side-B and am super sad that you don't know how to do it (because I'm assuming there's a way, just that it'd be round about and hard to find), Eld. :[

I also wanted to point out that Priority is -not- dependent on damage done. It's about the range and collision flags. Reducing the range by even a small amount is likely to make it have substantially less priority.

 

[Eldiran]

I haven't played in forever, so no updates on Wisp from my perspective, but I lovelovelove Cyber's idea for Side-B and am super sad that you don't know how to do it (because I'm assuming there's a way, just that it'd be round about and hard to find), Eld. :[

Yeah, strictly speaking I can make If (Hit with Hitbox) then (add points). But the problem is such Ifs only check for the status at that VERY moment. At best it would check for 1 frame, to my understanding... meaning I'd need an If for every frame of every hitbox for every move, which in the end may or may not reliably work. Worst case, it'll crash from trying to execute so many Ifs in such quick succession.

I'm sure you can see my problem.

I also wanted to point out that Priority is -not- dependent on damage done. It's about the range and collision flags. Reducing the range by even a small amount is likely to make it have substantially less priority.

I thought that it was at least partially relevant. Though I know about the range and collision flags -- I just wish I knew how to properly modify collision flags so I don't have to make the move short range.

 

[Andarel]

Just noticed a maaaaajor typo in my analysis, which hinges on my issue with the move:

There are some moves in the game, you see, that serve multiple purposes. As they should be. But among moves that serve dual purposes, if one purpose is quickly obsoleted the move has to be worth using in both modes. Your planned Side-B is a very, very unusual move as is, because it has two completely different purposes and can only use one at a time. In modes 0 - 2, it is a decently fast poke that does a little bit of damage; therefore, it is used mainly for spacing and damage racking in conjunction with Wisp's disjointedness and high speed. In mode 3, it is still sort of fast, but it now does negligible damage (5%) and has, iirc, a send angle that can be DIed mostly vertical (correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember it killing off the top more than side).

Now, among multi-mode moves (to analyze a couple: Charge Shot, Aura Sphere, Missile, Force Palm) you get two types of moves. The first is a charge-up, which spaces and racks a little damage when not charged (Lucarios are good to go when shooting off lots of aura spheres, even if they're uncharged). The "fully charged" mode, however, and here is the key difference, still spaces and racks more damage - but it does it better. Samus' charge shot does much more damage and can kill now - even though it was not very useful in its uncharged form, and you actually have an option as to when to charge it (hold B, of course). I already summarized the differences between the Wario Waft and Side-B earlier.

The second type allows you to switch between two modes, which is closer to what you have planned (which is what makes it odd). Smash Missiles vs. Homing Missiles - they are both useful, and all you need to do is enter the command differently. Same with Force Palm, just get close and you get a new but still useful throw mode.

Where am I going with all this? Simple. Side-B, as you have planned it, will be a first-type (charges over time) mode with a second-type (both effects are distinct and useful) effect. That is, in fact, the worst of both worlds: it still works, but it is awkward, as you need to ration Side-B - it is a very good poke, but it can't poke because if you poke with it you lose a kill move, assuming you've been hurt enough. As you go about earning a kill move, you lose a solid poke and have to fill a new hole in your playstyle.

Dashdancing to fill it up promoted camping, but it also promoted spacing - something Wisp excels at. Promoting getting hit does work, but it's not something I think people will want to do, considering it's also useful as a poke - not to mention Wisp's super-light. Earning a kill move as you get closer to death is a good idea, but it's also illogical to have it take up one of Wisp's best moves on such a light character in the process.

If you really want to give Wisp a "punish mode" attack that gets stronger as she gets hurt, give that to Earthuake. Being able to survive for a while and whip out a serious quake (and getting a kill move comboing from it, ideally) as a reward is much more appealing than having to play around a move that is never what you want it to be: as Wisp gets to high percent, pokes are more valuable because they help keep her from getting hit. I'd sacrifice a stock to max out my Waft because it is a great kill move and useless uncharged: there's no way I'd sacrifice a stock to polish off Side-B: I'd go dashdance. Which takes longer now.

:s

 

[leafgreen386]

There is a "hit with attack" requirement, you know. You'd be able to use that to raise the counter for the charging.

Heh, I'm actually kinda jealous that wisp is gonna be the first PSA character to make use of a kind of tension bar. The character I was planning on making pretty much is gonna have an entire moveset based on such a mechanic.

 

[Eldiran]

Just noticed a maaaaajor typo in my analysis, which hinges on my issue with the move:

...

If you really want to give Wisp a "punish mode" attack that gets stronger as she gets hurt, give that to Earthuake. Being able to survive for a while and whip out a serious quake (and getting a kill move comboing from it, ideally) as a reward is much more appealing than having to play around a move that is never what you want it to be: as Wisp gets to high percent, pokes are more valuable because they help keep her from getting hit. I'd sacrifice a stock to max out my Waft because it is a great kill move and useless uncharged: there's no way I'd sacrifice a stock to polish off Side-B: I'd go dashdance. Which takes longer now.

:s

I see what you mean by all this. It's all quite true. Honestly my inital approach expected the level 0 attack to be useless, and from there for it to transition to increasingly long-range and increasingly damaging quick attacks. Perhaps if I turned level 3 into something that damages rather than kills?

I figure the best thing to do would be redesign most of Wisp's special moves, but to be perfectly honest... I've got other projects that are nearing completion that I'd prefer to focus my creativity on. For now I want to shine Wisp up to be of decent/good quality. So right now I'm leaning toward making 3rd level be a stronger version of the 1st or second, and perhaps creating the Down+B spike to make up for the loss of kill power.

Thanks for all these excellent analyses by the way. This is the kind of stuff that will really help me fix old characters and make new characters properly.

There is a "hit with attack" requirement, you know. You'd be able to use that to raise the counter for the charging.

Heh, I'm actually kinda jealous that wisp is gonna be the first PSA character to make use of a kind of tension bar. The character I was planning on making pretty much is gonna have an entire moveset based on such a mechanic.

Yep. I would use that, except

But the problem is such Ifs only check for the status at that VERY moment. At best it would check for 1 frame, to my understanding... meaning I'd need an If for every frame of every hitbox for every move, which in the end may or may not reliably work. Worst case, it'll crash from trying to execute so many Ifs in such quick succession.

But thanks anyway. You should make that moveset if you can -- honestly I don't see how it can work given the instantaneous nature of Ifs. (If I'm mistaken on their nature, please correct me. I'd love to use 'em better.)

 

[Andarel]

A bit more theorysmash running around:

Wisp currently has 4 special moves with drastically different effects. Neutral-B is pretty much perfect as is, maybe a tad slower would do it good but that's not really such a big deal - it's a great offensive move because it lets Wisp keep up pressure 'cause of invulnerability frames. Up-B is kind of impractical in the air, but on the ground it works well as an edgeguarding tool...however, that's about it: I can't really see hitting with it as something that will actually happen with any sort of reliability. I don't have frame data, but if I were to fine-tune it...well, on the last bit of charge I'd probably add a windbox a la Ganon utilt, to mess up people's spacing if they try and punish it too late and because it's thematically appropriate. For midair use, I'd probably make it a slow-ish fast move that sends him downwards and pushes people away, and make the innermost hitbox a good killer, preferably off the top (it hits them up, tornado pushes a little higher for a hopeful star KO). That makes it hard to spam but gives a really good reward if it connects either way, plus potential mobility advantages.

Side-B should grow in damage as it powers up, because it doesn't make sense for a large explosion-type attack to do 5%, plus it becomes a dead move most of the time because the reward is much lower than the risk. For a charge system, strengthening as Wisp does damage > shields a move > drops a shield > dash-dances would be ideal (in that order of charge bonus), and having it be at least a decent kill move at max charge would be nice - that gives a reason to save it. Think of it like Lucario's Aura Sphere.

I'd like Earthquake to be faster, but it's hard to give a move with such high potential rewards a good speed. Having midair EQ have a decent-sized spiking hitbox (moderate strength) would be the best, perhaps a sweetspot-style move? With Wisp's high air speed and mobility, it would take good control to do so...and spiking a grounded opponent would be a good way to get kills off of uair or dair or something. It would also help with her gimping game (which doesn't need that much help but still) and promote aggressive play because you're rewarded much more for sh Down-B (on a grounded opponent) to punish than say sh F-Air. If it's fast enough on the cool-down, it would also give her an interesting tech-chase game (tech in place/untech - dtilt/ftilt, tech away - grab, tech behind - a couple of options, maily utilt on big people or just Neutral-B or perhaps nair. Dunno).

And yes, I do support more lag on grab and Side-B Lv. 0, It might be a good idea to tweak the levels a bit to just 0 (Fast-ish, weak damage, good poke), 1 (Same speed, moderate damage, mostly for punishing), 2 (Slightly slower, good damage, best for killing), 3 (Slightly faster, best damage, good angle for combos) or somehow differentiate the levels so they are all useful but they all need to be played around (though Lv. 2 would be the best killer and slightly slower but otherwise better version of Lv. 1). Also, remember that for a good number of charge-up moves, Brawl considers the almost-full version stronger but less damaging than the fully-charged version.

Earthquake also needs to be faster, or at least somehow useful. A spiking hitbox in the air and on the ground would go a long way, but the ground one would need to be slower - walking over the the edge and using EQ should not be an auto-gimp (a la a better Link/Ike/Pit dtilt). And having two running meters (if two moves fill up as different conditions are met) will be graphically impossible on someone as flashy as Wisp: if Side-B fills up as Wisp sparkles more, there's no room for EQ to fill up on a different but still easy to tell meter...so having it be a gradual-charge move is probably not a good idea. Unfortunately, it kind of needs to stay the way it is.

Just some thoughts, I'll probably disagree with them later on. But that's just me. =\

 

[Eldiran]

I'm convinced -- I'm going to give the level 3 side+B back the damage, but make it less of a killer. (Naturally it may kill at high percents.)

I agree with you very much about Earthquake. There actually is a spike hitbox on the unleashing of the quake that can spike opponents in the air, increasing in power and range on charge levels. I do think being able to shield out of earthquake makes it actually potentially useful. I'm glad you understand the problem with holding charges on it.

I am considering giving the aerial Down+B a use, but I'm wondering if Wisp really needs it. She seems pretty solid in my latest tests... we'll see on that one.

The Tornado... those are cool ideas, but again I'm unsure how much it's needed. I'm surprised to find that Tornado can be quite good if you are right at the edge with it -- you can sometimes end up with a helpless opponent suspended above you, at which point you can land a heavy blow with the right prediction.

 

[leafgreen386]

Eldiran... you need to lrn2loop. lol

Dealing with the instantaneous nature of Ifs is quite simple, actually.

<Hitbox here>
Set Loop: Infinite
   If: hit with hitbox
       Increase variable by x
   Else:
       Nop
   End If:
   Loop Rest:
Execute Loop:
Asynchronous Timer: y frames
Terminate Collisions:

I believe you could also use:

<Hitbox here>
Set Loop: y times
   If: hit with hitbox
       Increase variable by x
   Else:
       Nop
   End If:
   Synchronous Timer: 1 frame
Execute Loop:
Asynchronous Timer: y frames
Terminate Collisions:

Which might be a little easier on the processor since it's not executing an infinite loop, although I'm not sure if it will work properly. It would also require you to insert a separate loop in every attack subaction, since the number of loops would depend on the number of frames the hitbox lasts for.

A more efficient method would be storing the infinite loop in a subroutine that you can access from any subaction, saving a ton of lines, although I haven't looked into how you would do that yet.

 

[Eldiran]

Hmm, be cool if that worked. I may have to try it. However, I've always had bad experiences with Loop Rests outside of Actions. It usually breaks when in a subroutine, but perhaps I could get it to work right just in a subaction.

By the way, do Ifs cover the entire frame? I don't actually know for certain.

 

[leafgreen386]

If you use a synchronous timer, it should check at the beginning of the frame, which should be all you need to make it work. Although I'm pretty sure I've used an infinite loop in a subaction before with no problems.

 

[tsunami70875]

isn't "hit with hitbox" for when YOU hit with the hitbox, as opposed to the opponent hitting you?

 

[zephyrnereus]

just curious, when is 1.3 going to be released? I remember a post saying the changelist of the set but there is no download...

 

[leafgreen386]

isn't "hit with hitbox" for when YOU hit with the hitbox, as opposed to the opponent hitting you?

Yes... that's the whole point. Being rewarded for getting hit is dumb, so I'm saying to reward wisp for hitting with her own attacks by using the "hit with hitbox" requirement.

 

[xDD-Master]

Edit: Downloading it now <3

I wonder how you could get all of this down... wall sliding etc o.O

Good work.

 

[Eldiran]

After all this time, here's my next character: Zero! Go to the front page, post #2. Enjoy!

And please feel free to give feedback! I love feedback.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Woooah @ Zero

Edit: I've been testing him out. My thoughts on him as a character - absolutely positive. The effects are phenomenal. His stats like jump height, weight, and fall speed all feel pretty natural, and not haphazard like a lot of other PSA characters I've tried. And the side-B is perfectly executed; it really feels like it does in the games. As usual, a lot of effort has gone into the effects and the animations here. (Oh yeah, I noticed the hookshot glitch from the below post too).

I don't have any feedback from a gameplay perspective, but I'll play him with other people over the next couple days. I know one of my friends was actually asking about the green Zero sword swings for Link a couple days ago. I want to see his reaction when I show him the whole character :O

I think I said at one point that Wisp was the best custom PSA character out of all of them. Now I think that Zero is >_> He's just so well made. I think the fact that he's a real character is what makes me like him a little more than Wisp.

Edit2: Holy crap, I just noticed his side taunt. That's one of the coolest effects I've ever seen.

 

[xDD-Master]

OK here you get your first feedback, after I waited about an hour for him:

Zero is awesome. Truly he is, he feels like a complete new Character. You were very creative about him he may would be one of my mains, at least now, because he is a lot of fun to play with ^^

But here is some feedback:
- His running speed is so slow. It feels too slow tbh, but there is his side-b, I saw myself more side-b'ing over the stage than running xD
- His Ftilt, it should be interuptable a bit sooner (maybe 2-3 frames) this counts for the normal and the spear-one.
- His grab o.O I still see the hook but only a few frames in the start-up, maybe you could give him just a normal grab animation ?
- He could may also fall a bit quicker
- His DSmash seems a bit overpowered
- Other than that its somehow hard to KO with him.
- His normal-B is may a bit too good (needs more testings)
- His Final Smash is overpowered (at least vs CPUs xD)

All my testings were against CPU level 9.

I think Zero would deserve his own Thread, maybe with 6 different costumes (I could help here haha).
And I hope you will work on Megaman x) We need more of that good and unique characters !

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

im jumpin on this guy too i just gotta find mah sd card

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

Alright, played around with Zero for an hour or so and here's what I've discovered. He feels a little... clunky... His killing potential is a little low too.
More importantly than that though.
ZERO DOES NOT LIKE YOSHI'S ISLAND (Melee) BLOCKS! They do unkind things to his Dsmash, making it act a little glitchy, but, if he hits one of these blocks with the final hit of his neutral A combo (finishing with an upward slash) He freezes until hit.

 

[GHNeko]

making it act a little glitchy, but, if he hits one of these blocks with the final hit of his neutral A combo (finishing with an upward slash) He freezes until hit.

​

 

[yami_sora]

Zero looks amazing, shame he'd be all wonky in B+.

 

[Knightcrawler]

Wow, that Zero looks like a really high-quality PSA.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

I'm going to screw around with Zero tomorrow with some friends... we'll see what breaks.

 

[yami_sora]

I gave him a whirl in Brawl+ and he's not very playable right now. He looks great and I really love his side-B but his moves are way too slow and clunky to hit anyone in Brawl+. Some of the hitboxes like on his jab combo seem a little small too. His smashes don't come out in time to hit anyone either, especially his down smash. His recovery also leaves him way too gimp-able. Lastly, he seems really tough to deal a fatal blow with.

As you said though, he's not really designed for Brawl+ so I can see how that might be different in vBrawl. As far as aesthetics go I love his design and all the effort you put into him and his various attacks. I think the down-B is especially awesome. If you do plan on making him usable in Brawl+ his attacks are gonna need some serious speed windups and windowns.

That said, it's still one of the best PSAs I've seen so I hope you keep up the great work.

 

[jalued]

I gave him a whirl in Brawl+ and he's not very playable right now. He looks great and I really love his side-B but his moves are way too slow and clunky to hit anyone in Brawl+. Some of the hitboxes like on his jab combo seem a little small too. His smashes don't come out in time to hit anyone either, especially his down smash. His recovery also leaves him way too gimp-able. Lastly, he seems really tough to deal a fatal blow with.

As you said though, he's not really designed for Brawl+ so I can see how that might be different in vBrawl. As far as aesthetics go I love his design and all the effort you put into him and his various attacks. I think the down-B is especially awesome. If you do plan on making him usable in Brawl+ his attacks are gonna need some serious speed windups and windowns.

That said, it's still one of the best PSAs I've seen so I hope you keep up the great work.

yeah i agree for B+ he is too slow. His fsmash seems to be his only real kill move, but its very slow and has NO RANGE AT ALL.

oh and the animation for his grab is screwey, still looks like a grapple but invisable. anyway to remove that?

btw, IM LOVING the FS dair, you can spike with it on recovering opponent :D

my suggestion... NEED MORE SPEAR :D loving the ftilt, its mindgamey. Just dont feel the spear is used enough, feels too much like link atm - possibly change gravity, jump etc more?

oh and his dsmash unchanged wont kill pit on PS2 till 250%....without DI, and his nair doesnt kill till the same % (when edgeguarding). Perhaps change his uptilt as well, it doesnt look right atm imo

but good job, apart from this is a very polished character

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

I WANT YOUUUUUUU TO MAKE MY MEGAMAN MOVESET!!! i want to make a few things on it, but i want you to make most of it.

 

[Kitamerby]

You're a god of PSA.

You know that?

 

[BurningCharizard]

This makes me wish I knew how to make PSA characters, but I have the technological/programming skills of a paraplegic platypus with a lobotomy.

I agree with the above guys, for Brawl+ Zero feels a bit weird and has a very hard time killing anyone. That said, he's very fun to use and his moves give a wide variety of ways to mess around with people.

I'd suggest giving Side B a way to attack, maybe like the attack you get from Slash Beast in MMX4, or if you ram someone while dashing you automatically attack and (in the air) can dash again (similar to how Ganondorf and Falcon can use their Up B again after they grab someone).

The Z-Buster also seems wonky. I might be doing it wrong, but I hold B and dodge out of it, sometimes it holds the charges and sometimes it doesn't.

Other than those, excellent job. Just a bit of work with the Brawl+ version of zero and he'll be an amazing excellent addition :D

If you do decide to work on X as well, I suggest using Samus as the base and have his B moves based around the Maverick Weapons (something like Side B randomly uses one of eight Maverick Weapons, one from each X game and of varying elements/effects [example: Flame Mammoth's flamethrower, Magna Centipede's bomb, Blizzard Buffalo's ice shot, Storm Owl's wind balls, Axle the Red's vine whip, Metal Shark Player's anchor, Tornado Tonion's electric whirlwind, and Dark Mantis' dark arrow). Up B could be the Shoryuken from MMX2/Street Fighter, and Down B could be a sliding kick (as an homage to Mega Man's Slide).

 

[Revven]

Okay first off, awesome job, love how Zero looks in those pictures.

2nd off, he needs a video, someone should make one much like they did for Wisp

3rd off, I like how his Final Smash is VERY similar to one of his supers in Tatsunoko VS. Capcom (at least when he smashes the ground) awesome choice.

He looks freakin' sweet is all I can say.

 

[Gregory2590]

WILL try zero when I get home. Man I wish I could use PSA for beans.

 

[Alphatron]

*Fangasms for the first time in a long time*

 

[Eldiran]

Thanks for all the compliments and comments guys! I really appreciate it. I'll be taking all feedback into account as I refine him. Addressing some specific comments:

But here is some feedback:
- His running speed is so slow. It feels too slow tbh, but there is his side-b, I saw myself more side-b'ing over the stage than running xD
- His Ftilt, it should be interuptable a bit sooner (maybe 2-3 frames) this counts for the normal and the spear-one.
- His grab o.O I still see the hook but only a few frames in the start-up, maybe you could give him just a normal grab animation ?
- He could may also fall a bit quicker
- His DSmash seems a bit overpowered
- Other than that its somehow hard to KO with him.
- His normal-B is may a bit too good (needs more testings)
- His Final Smash is overpowered (at least vs CPUs xD)

Aye, the idea is that he primarily will be dashing to get around. His slow walk and run is probably why he feels clunky to many, but I wanted the dash to be integral (that and he doesn't exactly run very fast in the games).

Ftilt's range is so incredible I'm hesitant to speed it up.

The grab -- I know this is the case, but it's unavoidable. He won't throw if he doesn't have a hookshot. Unless there is a way to make articles invisible, it'll probably have to stay this way.

Zero does have plenty of trouble landing a solid KO move (I seem to make a lot of characters with trouble KOing). That's expected -- he may need to get the foe all the way up to 200% before killing. (Which is as it should be since he can hit so easily and safely).

And yeah, CPUs don't stand a change against his Final Smash.

The rest you'll probably become accustomed to as you play him. (Not that I'm not taking those comments into account anyway.)

ZERO DOES NOT LIKE YOSHI'S ISLAND (Melee) BLOCKS! They do unkind things to his Dsmash, making it act a little glitchy, but, if he hits one of these blocks with the final hit of his neutral A combo (finishing with an upward slash) He freezes until hit.

Now that is bizarre - I'll have to test this.

@:V - Lawl!

I gave him a whirl in Brawl+ and he's not very playable right now. He looks great and I really love his side-B but his moves are way too slow and clunky to hit anyone in Brawl+. Some of the hitboxes like on his jab combo seem a little small too. His smashes don't come out in time to hit anyone either, especially his down smash. His recovery also leaves him way too gimp-able. Lastly, he seems really tough to deal a fatal blow with.

I'm surprised the dash doesn't make him a combo machine in Brawl+. But, if he doesn't fit well into Brawl+, I would like to make a B+ version. (If :V wants to help me balance it. I'm far too unfamiliar with B+ to trust my own judgement on it.)

I agree with the above guys, for Brawl+ Zero feels a bit weird and has a very hard time killing anyone. That said, he's very fun to use and his moves give a wide variety of ways to mess around with people.

I'd suggest giving Side B a way to attack, maybe like the attack you get from Slash Beast in MMX4, or if you ram someone while dashing you automatically attack and (in the air) can dash again (similar to how Ganondorf and Falcon can use their Up B again after they grab someone).

The Z-Buster also seems wonky. I might be doing it wrong, but I hold B and dodge out of it, sometimes it holds the charges and sometimes it doesn't.

The killing problem isn't unique to B+, don't worry.

As for the dash attack ... that's what dash attack is for. But seriously, there isn't really a better animation to use for any dashing attack, or I'd use it.

The charge holds if you press shield or left/right after the color change. It shouldn't really fail, even if you get hit out of it.

I WANT YOUUUUUUU TO MAKE MY MEGAMAN MOVESET!!! i want to make a few things on it, but i want you to make most of it.

Sweet. I'd love to work with a new model, particularly one of an awesome character.

2nd off, he needs a video, someone should make one much like they did for Wisp

Yes please.

 

[shanus]

Eldiran, impressive work. I'm not a big fan on custom characters, but your work always raises the bar.

 

[sinistersnakesennin]

Wow. I know barely enough about the Zero series to know you put a LOT of work into this. I have been using Wisp for a while now, so I know this will be a quality PSA hack.

Awesome. :D

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Eldrian, I can't say how much to describe how awesome your works are, I mean HOLY CRAP they're just too good to be true!!

 

[matt4300]

Eldiran, the reason he seems so clunky in + is the fact that he has no ALR, and can't dashdance at all. He doenst seem to have an inital dash animation to speak of.
If you were to make him playable in brawl+ you would need to make another pac titled "Brawl+ Zero" or something... He would need a few different angles on moves for better combos. Mabye something to stop his Momentum from going bat**** when you attack out of side dash (>_> nair is sweet as hell) But mostly the things that are holding him back in + are

No ALR (aerial lag reduction)
No setup throws at all
No initial dash animation at all

aside from this stuff... Best PSA char no dought. You are a god. Love his uptilted jab finisher. LOVE down B (why couldnet links rang work like this? its so cool) taunts are win.

EDIT: I deleted some text... the more i play him the more combos he gets in + (airdash, Nair, Ftilt = ****) I am getting a good amount of freezes though T_T

 

[Eldiran]

Eldiran, the reason he seems so clunky in + is the fact that he has no ALR, and can't dashdance at all. He doenst seem to have an inital dash animation to speak of.
If you were to make him playable in brawl+ you would need to make another pac titled "Brawl+ Zero" or something... He would need a few different angles on moves for better combos. Mabye something to stop his Momentum from going bat**** when you attack out of side dash (>_> nair is sweet as hell) But mostly the things that are holding him back in + are

No ALR (aerial lag reduction)
No setup throws at all
No initial dash animation at all

I can see how this stuff would be the problem, particularly the laggy aerials. I was planning on making an alternate .pac as the solution. Also, is there some sort of wonky behavior on the Dash you're referring to? Or is it just alarmingly quick?

EDIT: I deleted some text... the more i play him the more combos he gets in + (airdash, Nair, Ftilt = ****) I am getting a good amount of freezes though T_T

Ack! Freezes are bad. Fixing those is goal #1. What is the cause, or what's going on when it happens??