Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)

[Gates]

sorry about the other thread, I didn't want to post off-topic in here.

but anywho, ZSS is going over King Dedede... if you'd like to add any new thoughts or opinions please be our guest!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203418

I was actually going to talk to Xiivii about the fact that I don't like other forums posting these things in my thread since it can derail the current discussion and tell him not to lock threads like those if they pop up.

 

[Xiivi]

They can post them in the General Topic then. Those things don't need their own threads, it was established quite a while ago.

 

[Pancakesyo]

i was thinking of 2 second dedede

but most of his bad matches are because he cant cg

thats pretty lame

 

[Gates]

i was thinking of 2 contribute 2 discussion

but most of his writeups are unfinished

thats pretty lame

Fixed.

10ifyouhavenothingtosayaboutthematchupbeingdiscusseddon'tsayanythingatall

Oh, and I know how much you all wanted me to do a Jiggs matchup writeup, so I put that in the OP.

 

[Kataefi]

Hiya! Zelda boards are discussing this matchup here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235580

Would be great if you could contribute =D

 

[Commander_Beef]

Hiya! Zelda boards are discussing this matchup here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235580

Would be great if you could contribute =D

How come we're getting a big wave of all these people to assist with their discussions all of a sudden?

 

[CRASHiC]

I joined an anime forum.

My weeaboo is complete.

EDIT- **** WRONG TOPIC

 

[Gates]

How come we're getting a big wave of all these people to assist with their discussions all of a sudden?

Because Xivii will infract you if you create a separate thread for it.

Sometimes I wish one of the regulars of the Dedede forum was a mod. Don't get me wrong, I think Xivii is doing a good job but it's really not the same if we don't have one of us moderating so that we have a mod who knows the...um, culture of the Dedede boards. I guess I'll bring it up in forum issues?

I joined an anime forum.

My weeaboo is complete.

EDIT- **** WRONG TOPIC

I just dropped a mad deuce.

My pooping is complete.

EDIT- **** WRONG TOPIC

 

[Xiivi]

I don't infract people for making a separate thread about it. I simply ask them to post it in a thread instead of creating a new one, like all character boards. I'm not really detached when I read this forum plenty of the time. And yes, your "culture" of being spammy? I simply ask you guys to keep on topic all the time.

 

[CRASHiC]

I don't infract people for making a separate thread about it. I simply ask them to post it in a thread instead of creating a new one, like all character boards. I'm not really detached when I read this forum plenty of the time. And yes, your "culture" of being spammy? I simply ask you guys to keep on topic all the time.

We need a delete post thing. This way we can delete are own unwanted post. In most forums, you can delete if someone hasn't posted in the topic after you did. I've accidentally posted in three threads my time here, and got infracted for it once.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

WHAT? spammy? Most of the time our discussions are on topic.

 

[Gates]

I don't infract people for making a separate thread about it. I simply ask them to post it in a thread instead of creating a new one, like all character boards.

Well, I guess if you're a mod on multiple forums

And yes, your "culture" of being spammy?

That is not it at all and I am greatly offended that you would say that.

...ok, I guess it is pretty accurate lol. give us a break, there's not much to talk about when everything about your character was discovered on the first day of Japanese demos.

But seriously, we have extremely relevant discussions in this thread and I'm usually pretty anal about keeping it on topic (notice how I went ape**** when CO18 and Zedd were doing that bull**** argument a few pages back). I haven't been lately because it's just been rediscussions/matchups that are few and far between/characters we can infinite. Generally I think we don't spam too much and any spam we do create can be easily killed by my vast collection of anti-lulz and serious business.

We need a delete post thing. This way we can delete are own unwanted post. In most forums, you can delete if someone hasn't posted in the topic after you did. I've accidentally posted in three threads my time here, and got infracted for it once.

We do need one of these. It would help so much.

EDIT: Since I'm still up I think we can change the discussion now.

LUIGI DISCUSSION IS CLOSED.
LINK DISCUSSION GO!

Spoiler

I can't wait to bomb some dodongos!

 

[Commander_Beef]

Because Xivii will infract you if you create a separate thread for it.

I know that but I mean in general, disregarding the fact about creating a separate thread, why so randomly are we getting Zelda, Jigglypuff, and Zero Suit Samus aliens consistently? =D

 

[xX Jolly]

I know this is off topic but I thought I would mention it. Olimar can DI out of Dedede's down throw. I dont know which character is going to be discussed next but id like Olimar since the summary talks about tech chasing as the only tip which does not work.

 

[Fogo]

You gotta get good at it man

 

[xX Jolly]

You gotta get good at it man

Was that towards me? If so you just cant chase Olimar all he has to do is hold up and jump after you down throw him and he does not hit the ground.

 

[Anonano]

Alright, I was informed that you guys are starting your discussion on Link (http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=90823), so I guess I'll start despite the fact that you haven't announced you are on to Link yet.

D3 is one of Link's top 2 worst matchups, if not THE worst. CG to fthrow+bair gimping, or just CG to bair gimp, will destroy Link.
Just ban Battlefield or Norfair against Link (preferably Battlefield, it has smaller platforms so less CG'ing), because that is the only stage where Link has a slim chance of winning. On Battlefield Link will jump from platform to platform bombing you, although if you predict well it will be easy to dodge the spam. Just jump up and bair/nair him. You can utilt as well, although don't expect to finish Link off with it.

Really, no damage racking is necessary unless you want to do the fthrow gimp; just get him in the CG and bair gimp him.
85:15 or 90:10 D3's favor. Links only chance is on Norfair or Battlefield. D3 is good at doing the only two things that Link mains really fear: getting him offstage, and gimping him.
As a side note, D3's Waddle Dees, Doos, and Gordos cancel out all of Links projectiles, forcing Link to FH to throw them if he wants a chance of hitting D3. Link is just too slow to run away from D3, and his projectile game is useless. Have fun, joke around, let Link get 150% damage on you on your last stock, then just CG all three stocks away.
Have fun D3 mains.

 

[sasook]

While I agree with Ano on most of that, I disagree with some of it. Everything here....

D3 is one of Link's top 2 worst matchups, if not THE worst. CG to fthrow+bair gimping, or just CG to bair gimp, will destroy Link.
Just ban Battlefield or Norfair against Link (preferably Battlefield, it has smaller platforms so less CG'ing), because that is the only stage where Link has a slim chance of winning. On Battlefield Link will jump from platform to platform bombing you, although if you predict well it will be easy to dodge the spam. Just jump up and bair/nair him. You can utilt as well, although don't expect to finish Link off with it.

is correct.

Really, no damage racking is necessary unless you want to do the fthrow gimp; just get him in the CG and bair gimp him.
85:15 or 90:10 D3's favor. Links only chance is on Norfair or Battlefield. D3 is good at doing the only two things that Link mains really fear: getting him offstage, and gimping him.
As a side note, D3's Waddle Dees, Doos, and Gordos cancel out all of Links projectiles, forcing Link to FH to throw them if he wants a chance of hitting D3. Link is just too slow to run away from D3, and his projectile game is useless. Have fun, joke around, let Link get 150% damage on you on your last stock, then just CG all three stocks away.
Have fun D3 mains.

I disagree with the bolded parts. It's severely in your favor, but it's not that drastic, IMO. D3 has a 75:25 advantage on us. Our projectile game is most definitely not completely shut down, tbh if you spam right (like swordplay does) Link's projectile game > D3's spam game. Not by much, but it's there. That's all Link can do to D3 - a whole lot of bombs, boomerang and zair. Expect a lot of zair, especially.

AT's always help too, Ano =P

Bombsmashing and bombslides work particularly well in this matchup.


But yeah, your favor guys. Unless you're up against a Link pro, this is almost a joke matchup for you.

 

[Fogo]

Was that towards me? If so you just cant chase Olimar all he has to do is hold up and jump after you down throw him and he does not hit the ground.

Yeah it was directed at you. If he holds up then you can chaingrab him like normal.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

what does link have in this matchup to screw with D3, hmm, link has ehm projectiles, and ehm that zair, then its all done, link has very little other that helps him, link could hold on to a bomb to prevent you from CGing, and also has a bit easier jab locks vs D3, the rang set up seem to work better than usual vs D3. and link seem to be a tad quicker than D3. As for spacing game they seem equal In my eyes. Now to the bad things (from my point of view, haha). link sucks when he gets offstage, and D3 can move him all the way towards the ledge and throw him away from the stage, and now link is in a lot of trouble, if he DIed correctly he can maybe throw a rang to disturb you or if you Dthrowed him offstage he could whiplash (zair the ledge quickly to stop momentum using the fact that you can airdodge before attacking in this game and with that zair before anything else, ehm a bit hard to explain but anyway something like that). Anyways you can just gimp him with bairs, you will not need more than one so do that version when you go high and then FF bairs to create a huge wall that link cant get through.

Thats it, CG > gimp is all you need to know

this matchup is somewere between 65:35 to 75:25 in your favor.

 

[CRASHiC]

Clearly, if you do the math, its 73:27.

 

[KirinBlaze]

This match-up is booooooooring. D: It's a super hardcore camp fest. Link can cause problems for you with bombs and arrows bombs on the first few frames of the throw go through Waddle Dee's mind you. You're a bit target for our Zair but we won't try anything except a Boomerang throw or something since you got those mean old grabby mittens we hate so much. Maybe one of the more feisty Link players like myself will Fsmash, Dash Attack, or Regrab out of it but don't except that much. Just running in for grabs it tough since you're this big fat penguin and all with all this annoying **** flying right into your face. Waddle Dee's disrupt most of our projectiles minus Zair and bombs like I mentioned before. If you recover to high Link can let you rise into his Dair and watch you die off screen at stupid low %'s (Stupidly low for what DDD is used to anyway.) so just be careful of that. If you grab us it's pretty much over, just CG to the ledge then proceed to Bair and we're pretty much ****ed. If we're offstage we're pretty much ****ed too. Just watch out for random arrow shots or other projectiles to keep you onstage or give us that brief second we need to safely start our terribad recovery.

65:35 DDD or 70:30 DDD.

 

[xX Jolly]

Yeah it was directed at you. If he holds up then you can chaingrab him like normal.

Tried out what you said Fogo and if Olimar jumps away from D3 after DI I am pretty sure there is no way he can be grabbed. Try it out and let me know if you find out otherwise. Sorry for talking about another character matchup lol.

 

[NeoCrono]

Unlike Toon links Z-air
Links hits twice
Usually when I played this match up (i don't really play it any more) My goal was to get Link off the stage. If I could do that I took a stock off of him. His projectiles can be troublesome at times, but nothing too serious.
Link's recovery is buns

 

[Fogo]

Tried out what you said Fogo and if Olimar jumps away from D3 after DI I am pretty sure there is no way he can be grabbed. Try it out and let me know if you find out otherwise. Sorry for talking about another character matchup lol.

It's cool lol i'm sure gates doesn't care <3

I'll post more on your profile

 

[hippiedude92]

Not to be rude, since the luigi discussion is closed although the info wasn't completely enough or organized (imo) would it say be done? or we've reached conclusions?

as for ratios

w/ infinite (no perfect frame CG) 7/3 D3

w/o infinite (and no walking perfect frame ) 45:55 D3 or 5/5 even.

w/ perfect frame CG = idk ratio never fought a d3 that can do it.

Those are just my 2 cents for ratio, though I slightly care about the meat of the info than numbers itself.

 

[Gates]

@ xX Jolly and Fogo - I'd rather you guys talk about Link but meh.

@ hippiedude92 - I got your numbers on the matchups already and included them in my calculations.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

My personal opinion of the DDD vs Link matchup is 90:10, DDD's favor. Hell, if you want, bump it up to 99:01.

Why? Any experienced DDD player has no excuse to not take a stock off of a Link player the very moment the DDD lands a grab. From that moment, all the DDD needs to do it CG Link off the stage, and then put up a wall of Bairs, which can easily hit through Link's UpB. Link can't get past the wall thanks to DDD's fall speed, and it gimps him like none other. The only way for Link to survive is if he gets extremely lucky with either a bomb in hand going off, or the DDD makes an error.

Link may have his projectiles, and DDD may be a large, "combo-able" target as some may say, but this match is horridly in DDD's favor. Agreed by many Link mains to be Link's toughest, most absurd matchup.

I'd rather fight a Falco, or an MK.

 

[Darknid]

Don't worry about damaging him, your goal in life is to get him offstage. D throw sends him nice and low(though you can also just let him jump break from a grab, it works very nicely because he can't recover too low if you do that) and WOP with bair or fair, I recommend bair because his fair is actually quite strong and can stage spike you so you want to hit him first. A simple WOP will destroy him. This makes the matchup nearly unwinnable for the Link player, and it's all you should be doing. CG to the edge, d throw, then follow up.

EDIT: You may not want to use D throw because I think Link can use his tether recovery the moment you D throw him and he will make it back that way.

 

[Anonano]

Don't worry about damaging him, your goal in life is to get him offstage. D throw sends him nice and low(though you can also just let him jump break from a grab, it works very nicely because he can't recover too low if you do that) and WOP with bair or fair, I recommend bair because his fair is actually quite strong and can stage spike you so you want to hit him first. A simple WOP will destroy him. This makes the matchup nearly unwinnable for the Link player, and it's all you should be doing. CG to the edge, d throw, then follow up.

EDIT: You may not want to use D throw because I think Link can use his tether recovery the moment you D throw him and he will make it back that way.

If you D throw us off the edge, we can indeed tether after a short period of hitstun. You can just walk lazily offstage, bair towards the stage as we try desperately to retract to the ledge, and stagespike us.
There is no excuse for D3 to not kill Link once he is offstage.
Btw, bombs going off will save Link's butt about 25% of the time. The rest of the time it won't make a difference for you D3 mains.
The only redeeming factor Link has is his bombs on Battlefield or Norfair. Ban Battlefield, and expect that Link won't do any good on Norfair anyways, and follow the instructions given at :20 in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltHMlOoZi0
90:10 D3.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Are we REALLY even discussing this match?

 

[CRASHiC]

Are we REALLY even discussing this match?

No. They are for us

 

[Gates]

Are we REALLY even discussing this match?

I'm just doing it for sake of completeness.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I'm just doing it for sake of completeness.

Yeah what's the harm in doing that Atomsk?

Our down smash outranges all of Link's smashes, and it has priority over them all. Try to keep your small space when doing it a millisecond after Link's first slash of his forward smash. Aim for at least 116% for the kill people....we're not going to get as many uptilt kills to him as we can down smashing since he doesn't approach in the air expecting his Zair in this matchup.

 

[T3h Albino]

Yeah what's the harm in doing that Atomsk?

Our down smash outranges all of Link's smashes, and it has priority over them all. Try to keep your small space when doing it a millisecond after Link's first slash of his forward smash. Aim for at least 116% for the kill people....we're not going to get as many uptilt kills to him as we can down smashing since he doesn't approach in the air expecting his Zair in this matchup.

god what is up with you and dsmash <<

 

[NeoCrono]

So 90-10 D3?
We pretty much got the match-up on lock
Atomsk, I still love the lucky star sig lol

 

[Atomsk_92]

XD Luckystar ftw XD

 

[Commander_Beef]

god what is up with you and dsmash <<

There's nothing wrong with expressing how great and underrated the move is. I can understand now that you don't use it as often in your game, when you should.
I've been "studying" it for quite some time now and I'm **** proud of it. So you should respect your fellow King Dedede board member for that, and expect nothing less. You're unbelieved.

 

[Gates]

There's nothing wrong with expressing how great and underrated the move is. I can understand now that you don't use it as often in your game, when you should.
I've been "studying" it for quite some time now and I'm **** proud of it. So you should respect your fellow King Dedede board member for that, and expect nothing less. You're unbelieved.

Hey, what's that thing that you say to me in like every thread?

 

[Atomsk_92]

There's nothing wrong with expressing how great and underrated the move is. I can understand now that you don't use it as often in your game, when you should.
I've been "studying" it for quite some time now and I'm **** proud of it. So you should respect your fellow King Dedede board member for that, and expect nothing less. You're unbelieved.

Seems like your trying to get attention...