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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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thanks, guys :)

btw, what do i do if falcon does like, a fullhop/double jump to bait me into swinging my sword or grabbing?
 
ZoSo

ZoSo

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Well, the obvious counter would be not taking the bait. If you keep your wits about you, he's pretty much at your mercy once he's in the air. You can punish him very, very hard if you guess right or scare him into using his double jump. But if you want more specific advice, the main thing to remember is that, while utilt is a good move, you can't just use it with impunity. It has quite a bit of lag. This is where you want to use your aerials.
 
TheCrimsonBlur

TheCrimsonBlur

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Tee ay eye said:
thanks, guys :)

btw, what do i do if falcon does like, a fullhop/double jump to bait me into swinging my sword or grabbing?
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Up air him. Don't wait for him to land. Don't sit there in your shield praying for a shield grab. Just hit him and start a monster combo. And then he won't jump again. It was a bit frustrating watching your vids today and noticing how many uair opportunities you didn't go for...not just against Falcon, but against everyone.

Oh and another thing I noticed...if you are going to roll forward, turn around and do a back roll. Marth's back roll is ****ing broken. Forward roll is ***. Be conscious of which direction you are facing...one bad forward roll is a stock. Of course you can't turn around in your shield, but if you are rolling out-of-shield, its a good thing to remember.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Thanks KK. I guess what I would say is, even if those fairs were spaced properly do you think that's what I should be doing? Or overall should I stay grounded more. Maybe more dtilts, look for more grabs?
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

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I think Marth should just stay grounded more in general haha ... jumping commits you to doing an aerial if they enter your space unless you're retreating, and fast characters can punish that very well (no idea about Sheik but Fox and Falcon cover ground like lightning)
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Yea. I think a large part of it was that I was getting backed into a corner like KK said. Seems so hard to avoid this tho because sheik never really rushes and is just kinda sitting there waiting for you to try to roll behind her or something. I guess I have to make more out of my retreats, not just retreat for no reason and then get cornered. I think I'm kind of programmed to try to play near the edges in other matchups because Marth can take such advantage of getting people off stage but maybe vs sheik its too compromising.
 
Wenbobular

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I also feel like I should note that I am a Fox/Falcon main so I'm commenting from that side of the matchup haha

I don't really see how a fulljumping Falcon baits anything really haha, the only thing he can do is stupidly fall at you with an aerial which I feel like I tell beginning Falcons "STOP DOING THAT"

Same thing applies to the instant double jump (unless you're SS)

Even if you don't just Uair him like CrimsonBlur says, dash dancing below him and watching him should at the very least keep you from getting hit by anything if you keep all his options in mind (aerial, waveland, land and dash)
 
Dart!

Dart!

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Niko45 said:
I'd just like to comment that I think Taj quite possibly is THE best Marth in Marth ditto.
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Yeah, M2K doesn't play this game anymore.
I'm starting to enjoy marth dittos more and more in tourney. friendly dittos are kinda lame.

Taj could become M2k status in marth dittos at this rate.
 
Dark Hart

Dark Hart

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Gosh, Y.Link is such a weird match-up lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHxCfd_KE-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCft3r68KC0

just a recent tourney set, the only one that got recorded lol

any info would be helpful, even if it's not match-up specific.

I know I have weird edge habits so feel free to point that out.
I also have weird tech skill **** ups/just plain brain farts sometimes idk...

thanks in advance!

ZoSo, gogo!! =P
 
ZoSo

ZoSo

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LOL why me?

At any rate, it's kinda hard for me to give advice because, to be blunt, you seem like you don't even have the basics down, really. For starters:

-Work on your execution; I'm seeing a lot of random dairs and stuff that I assume were supposed to be other moves.
-Be more compact; don't jump around swinging your sword so much, focus on your ground game.

Stuff specific to Young Link:

-There's really no reason to powershield in this matchup because frankly his projectiles aren't that scary. Unless he gets you in the air, mostly everything he has is easily defeated by CC'ing and WD'ing out of shield.
-I am seriously going crazy over here watching you try to edgeguard with fsmash. Toward the end of the second match, you were literally letting him recover for free. JUST DTILT.
-If you hit them far enough away that they have to use the hookshot, grab the edge, drop when you see the air dodge, and double jump bair when you see the hookshot. Alternately, you could avoid the hookshot with ledge invincibility and just stay on the edge, which will cause them to pop up when they retract (because they can't grab the edge if you're already on it). Then you can ledgehop > stuff.
-If they throw a boomerang on the ground and you shield it, 90% of the time they'll immediately pull a bomb. You can punish this for free with WD out of shield > stuff. Obviously adapt if they start doing something else.
 
mers

mers

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LOVE me some Marth dittoes.

Marth is perfectly designed to **** himself. Good combos, edgeguards, etc. I think its one of his faster matchups too, which is nice.
 
#HBC | Mac

#HBC | Mac

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why would you ask for pointers when you 3 stocked the fox in both games...

clearly its not very representative of you having issues with the campy fox match up
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

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It's pretty hard to critique when most of the Falcon vid is like 2/3s the screen haha
That Falco vid was like ... too janky to critique xD

Don't getup attack all the time
 
Niko45

Niko45

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The best is when you running tipper a fox like that and then you just running tipper again out over the edge and they jump right into it preparing to side B and die at 39 lol.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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No no no. The best thing is when you just stay solid with Sheik, SHIELD Marth's random f-smash, wavedash out of shield -> grab, and combo him to death.
 
ChivalRuse

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I'm saying that's more satisfying. Waiting for somebody to make a mistake and punishing is more satisfying than simply getting a read. To me at least ... for some reason.
 
Winston

Winston

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Niko45 said:
The best is when you running tipper a fox like that and then you just running tipper again out over the edge and they jump right into it preparing to side B and die at 39 lol.
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I think you did that to me a few times and I admit it felt completely crushing, but I don't think you have to commit to an fsmash to get the KO in that situation. I feel like you can do something less laggy to cover that option

ChivalRuse said:
I'm saying that's more satisfying. Waiting for somebody to make a mistake and punishing is more satisfying than simply getting a read. To me at least ... for some reason.
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that's like the least satisfying thing for me. It doesn't feel like you're doing anything, and it probably won't work vs better players...
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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You're missing the point.

By waiting I don't mean doing nothing. I mean creating openings without taking large risks, which is precisely what you have to do against better players. Risks pay off from time to time, but in the long run they hurt you.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Gustav Wind said:
I think you did that to me a few times and I admit it felt completely crushing, but I don't think you have to commit to an fsmash to get the KO in that situation. I feel like you can do something less laggy to cover that option
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Haha, probably. It was working on every fox I played, though. I think the fact that you charge towards the ledge baits the spacie into trying to side B through you. They think you won't be able to get there in time to jab but they're eating an fsmash instead. You might be able to wavedash at the ledge and jab but even that is a pretty solid commit if they're just going to sweetspot DJ to the ledge so either way might just be better to go for the fsmash. It's so circumstantial that I can't really know any of this for sure though.

@Chival personally I enjoy punishing in the more circumstantial situations rather than punishing lag cause there's much more potential in circumstantial combos where as the lag punishes get pretty repetitive. Reading a DJ and starting up a combo from that has endless possibilities and it gives you more opportunity to "freestyle" as you try to come up with the best punish on the spot.
 
otg

otg

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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Niko45 said:
@Chival personally I enjoy punishing in the more circumstantial situations rather than punishing lag cause there's much more potential in circumstantial combos where as the lag punishes get pretty repetitive. Reading a DJ and starting up a combo from that has endless possibilities and it gives you more opportunity to "freestyle" as you try to come up with the best punish on the spot.
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I agree. REAL *****S
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

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Watched the first vid

You guys hit each other a lot <_< a lot of the time it's your partner entering your space and you do an attack ... and by virtue of you being Marth you hit everything in the area which isn't really what you want

I think that's really the hardest part about teams after basic awareness ... figuring out which of you wants to be the aggressor in any given situation, which eliminates the awkward both of you charging in / both of you running away times (although your teammate just kinda attacks everything in sight as far as I can tell haha)

When you're at kill % and you get a grab, always look for the partner charging at you because that's the direction you want to be throwing in - it only happened once (you Upthrew and got Upsmashed for it) but it's something you need to be looking for if you aren't already

Your teammate is like a huge wrecking ball haha (Fox is really better suited for that style in teams because of how safely you can spam moves) but he never gives you any work to do - a few times someone is sent your way and he tries to continue his combo even though you're there. If he learns to leave them with you (and if you're good at hitting the punish) you guys would be a much better team

I think the biggest thing is you need to learn how to be the aggro with Marth because sometimes you're sitting back as Marth should be doing most of the time but your teammate is at like 130 and you both get backed into the corner, which is basically the worst

Playing Marth in teams is just awkward in general though IMO - it's really hard to be safe when you're trying to space against one person and someone just nails you from behind, in between your Fairs, etc etc etc ... you either have to be super outplaying someone or just be super aware of everything that's going on which is really really hard in teams. Space animals have it easy because they can just spam attacks at everything enemy colored and be safe hehe

Shinespike count in game 2 was actually 3 I think ^_^

Yoshi's Story sucks as a counterpick until you and your teammate are very very comfortable with knowing who the aggro is

Recap - work better as a team, general awareness, gimp more than you're gimped
 
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