Evo 2k8 Brawl Finals

[Luigi player]

When I was a casual smasher I didn't even like items... they just suck. They're annoying. And their only purpose is to **** up the match and include stupid luck. Oh, and the explosives always drop in front of a smash attack...


Yes, items can be fun, if they are only rarely on, and just in fun matches, but not in matches where you can win money and want to know who is the better player. Items are just luck. They just shouldn't be here. I always hate items. They're so annoying and suck so much it's unbelieveable.

If you want to know the better player, you don't want any luck. And I don't even like items if I just play for fun. Winning is fun for me. And it sucks if some noobs just win because they got lucky.

 

[Korpocalypse]

Did anyone notice how Ken annihilated CPU at the beginning of each match before the items appeared?

I did >_>

Awesome

I liked it (hated it) when the announcer was trying to poke some fun at the smash community with his "unavoidable free kill, right?", but ignored when rob killed marth at like 75% with the bumper and then killed at 80% AND got 20% on the next stock w/ the smashball. NO FREE KILLS HERE!

EDIT:

Playing with items on is simply playing the game differently. The bias nonsense in this thread is no better than the "you suck" comments about a youtube video.

Edit: And it was interesting to watch. I'd never play that way though...

QFT
we're all used to itemless smash, it's a different game with items. More luck, more throwing, quicker deaths, more gimps, etc. I propose that it be called Itemsmash or Itembrawl

 

[smasher32]

Smash Balls gives one more reason to choose a character. His fifth move. Sonic is scary now isn't it?

It really excited me to see people avoiding final smashes.... CPU doing item combos. It was great. A whole new dimension of play.

Items are revolved around luck. Anyone can win a match with an item appearing right in front of you at the right time. Luck =/= skill and does not belong in competition (not just Brawl in general)

I insist, 5 stocks. 3 are too low for item play.

What, you want to start putting people to sleep now? Also, 3 stock is meant to keep games short.

 

[teekay]

haha wow, and I thought the match against SK92 was bad.

wtf people i thought the evo commentator was enjoyable, and the match was enjoyable

what is with everyone


thank you.


i hope everyone knows what outright smashboardian hostility and disrespect looks like to evo staff. there's a thread in tournament results where even our moderators are speaking out of turn.

Oh, please. Have you bothered to check what they say about us on shoryuken?

I would never make a comment about them personally, especially since I've been following and enjoying the competitive SF community for years. But this tournament is a joke, and a community that takes legit competition as seriously as srk should be able to see that.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Rob + Items = top tier.

They should of used item list and rules from the Items Standard Play project we have stickied in Tactical Discussion.

 

[Kadiev]

Smash Balls gives one more reason to choose a character. His fifth move. Sonic is scary now isn't it?

It really excited me to see people avoiding final smashes.... CPU doing item combos. It was great. A whole new dimension of play.
I don't know if items should be mid or low. I insist, 5 stocks. 3 are too low for item play.

WTF oh wait

Location: Buenos Ares, Argentina

 

[bobson]

Oh, Smashboards.
CPU won because he was skilled with items and put them to good use. Ken wasn't and didn't. He made numerous mistakes in not using items to their full potential, the most obvious being going after the smash ball first without a guarantee of breaking it. But it's still an illegitimate win, right? Because items are only for slimy inferior skillless casual scrubs who can only ever win matches by luck and all the real pros should never bother learning how to use them because items are just gay.

 

[LuigiKing]

OK, was that actually Ken this time? There have been so many impersonators since Ken isn't big on the brawl scene... Either way that was a terrible tournament. I died a little inside.

Oh, and bobson... items are just gay.

 

[LuigiKing]

poop poop poop pooppoop poopoopopopopoooop pooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop

 

[theONEjanitor]

the commentators were enjoyable,
and the match was enjoyable.

unfair and luck-based, but enjoyable

Oh, Smashboards.
CPU won because he was skilled with items and put them to good use. Ken wasn't and didn't. He made numerous mistakes in not using items to their full potential, the most obvious being going after the smash ball first without a guarantee of breaking it. But it's still an illegitimate win, right? Because items are only for slimy inferior skillless casual scrubs who can only ever win matches by luck and all the real pros should never bother learning how to use them because items are just gay.

Ken had better spacing, edgeguarding, prediction, unpredictableness, move selection, technical ability, speed and grace than CPU.

CPU "used items better", and won the match.

LMFAO @ any ****** who defends that. Even CPU himself admitted that Ken was better than him.

BTW, CPU didn't "use items better". the smashballs luckily floated to positions convienient to him almost every time.

 

[bobson]

Ken had better spacing, edgeguarding, prediction, unpredictableness, move selection, technical ability, speed and grace than CPU.

CPU "used items better", and won the match.

And?
Items are a part of the game. If you only train without them, you're going to be at a disadvantage if you play with them, and these matches illustrate that incredibly well. If Ken had known how to use items well, he would've stomped CPU without remorse, but he didn't. Seriously, he picked up a hammer against a freaking ROB.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Ken had better spacing, edgeguarding, prediction, unpredictableness, move selection, technical ability, speed and grace than CPU.

CPU "used items better", and won the match.

This -- QFT

 

[the_suicide_fox]

Wow, that was amazing...

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

I'm really really glad ken got beat this way.

Guess what item ***s. Ken was beating CPU outright without items. Items came into play, they changed the game from a skill based game to a ****ing terrible game at EVo. When CPU got a smash ball, it made ken have a decision. Wether to run...or wether to run. What kind of ****ed up tournament allows items which makes it so whoever gets an item first gets the advantage for MORE THAN A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON THE LINE. I would of rather put that money on Black at a casino and probably would of had the same 50/50 shot. Was it entertaining? Of course it was.

I love to watch the once top melee players getting beat by a "patient" camping rob in an items match for 2000 dollars. As long as it isnt me in the finals.

Melee in Evo2k7 was epic and amazing, and filled with the top players competing for money in a legit non items way. It got respsect from the fighting game community and was well on its way to becoming bigger.

BRAWL CAME ALONG, EVO TOOK IT, THIS HAPPENED, AND BRAWL WILL NEVER BE SEEN AS A COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME EVER. I really had high hopes for brawl, even after it came out. If ANYONE backs this tournament and says its for the better of the game, you should be ****ing shot and banned from Smash Boards.

This tournament was embarrasing, and should be swept away in our minds.

 

[Harbinger631]

I'm really really glad ken got beat this way.

Guess what item ***s. Ken was beating CPU outright without items. Items came into play, they changed the game from a skill based game to a ****ing terrible game at EVo. When CPU got a smash ball, it made ken have a decision. Wether to run...or wether to run. What kind of ****ed up tournament allows items which makes it so whoever gets an item first gets the advantage for MORE THAN A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON THE LINE. I would of rather put that money on Black at a casino and probably would of had the same 50/50 shot. Was it entertaining? Of course it was.

I love to watch the once top melee players getting beat by a "patient" camping rob in an items match for 2000 dollars. As long as it isnt me in the finals.

Melee in Evo2k7 was epic and amazing, and filled with the top players competing for money in a legit non items way. It got respsect from the fighting game community and was well on its way to becoming bigger.

BRAWL CAME ALONG, EVO TOOK IT, THIS HAPPENED, AND BRAWL WILL NEVER BE SEEN AS A COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME EVER. I really had high hopes for brawl, even after it came out. If ANYONE backs this tournament and says its for the better of the game, you should be ****ing shot and banned from Smash Boards.

This tournament was embarrasing, and should be swept away in our minds.

Wow, why do you care so much?

 

[xxxn00b4lyf3817xxx]

the commentators were enjoyable,
and the match was enjoyable.

unfair and luck-based, but enjoyable



Ken had better spacing, edgeguarding, prediction, unpredictableness, move selection, technical ability, speed and grace than CPU.

CPU "used items better", and won the match.

LMFAO @ any ****** who defends that. Even CPU himself admitted that Ken was better than him.

BTW, CPU didn't "use items better". the smashballs luckily floated to positions convienient to him almost every time.

haha, I have to agree with you there, those smash balls have a tendency to run after someone gets the first hit on them. Its pretty random but after ken hits the smash ball it can either go towards rob or way off the ledge where its unreachable. Also, ROB's dodge is annoying -.-

 

[Harbinger631]

Actually, I think the smashballs are programmed to drift towards the player that's losing. Which means that they actually can be competitive, because they're not random (awaits massive flaming).

 

[xxxn00b4lyf3817xxx]

Actually, I think the smashballs are programmed to drift towards the player that's losing. Which means that they actually can be competitive, because they're not random (awaits massive flaming).

and of course I disagree :D

 

[bobson]

I'm really really glad ken got beat this way.

As am I. It proves that items are required to be used skillfully if they're going to help much.

Guess what item ***s. Ken was beating CPU outright without items. Items came into play, they changed the game from a skill based game to a ****ing terrible game at EVo.

Very little luck was involved, "smash balls flying in CPU's general direction" notwithstanding. CPU was skilled with items, and Ken wasn't. Items allowed him to win by his skill with them. I don't see why this is so hard for people to grasp.

When CPU got a smash ball, it made ken have a decision. Wether to run...or wether to run. What kind of ****ed up tournament allows items which makes it so whoever gets an item first gets the advantage for MORE THAN A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON THE LINE. I would of rather put that money on Black at a casino and probably would of had the same 50/50 shot.

ROB has a better final smash than Marth does. It's a part of his moveset. Likewise, Marth has a better fair than ROB, but you don't see people bitching about that. No johns, right? Or does that only apply to heterosexual, "tournament-approved" gameplay?

 

[xxxn00b4lyf3817xxx]

As am I. It proves that items are required to be used skillfully if they're going to help much.


Very little luck was involved, "smash balls flying in CPU's general direction" notwithstanding. CPU was skilled with items, and Ken wasn't. Items allowed him to win by his skill with them. I don't see why this is so hard for people to grasp.


ROB has a better final smash than Marth does. It's a part of his moveset. Likewise, Marth has a better fair than ROB, but you don't see people bitching about that. No johns, right? Or does that only apply to heterosexual, "tournament-approved" gameplay?

Having a hammer spawn in front of you takes real skill, along with having the star(the one that makes u invincible) pop right on top of you. That's why people hate items.

 

[bobson]

Having a hammer spawn in front of you takes real skill, along with having the star(the one that makes u invincible) pop right on top of you. That's why people hate items.

Apparently it does, because it spawned in front of Ken and he lost a stock because of it.

 

[xxxn00b4lyf3817xxx]

Apparently it does, because it spawned in front of Ken and he lost a stock because of it.

If you actually looked at the video, you will see that it spawned in front of ROB, Ken was off the stage when it spawned. Rob had 2 choices, get the hammer and kill ken, or let ken get it and kill him anyways. Ken was screwed either way at that point and Rob took the safer bet.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

It looked pretty fun actually, in a non serious sort of way.

I like the announcer, I only watched the first video though so he could have said some dumb stuff.

 

[Harbinger631]

Ken wasn't screwed no matter what, he could have opted to not grab the hammer. If ROB then grabbed it, Marth could have countered or what not. In items matches, even though an item may give a random player an advantage, almost always the other player can do something to counter or avoid the item. (Awaits crazy flames).

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

Bobson you forget that you saying what your saying right now is putting brawl at the bottom of the fighting game respect level. Street Fighter 2 turbo takes more skill than brawl does. That is ****ing pathetic. You keep backing that items take skill to play, then when you watch enough matches you find that there are too many variables that can't be controlled. When m2k trained with marth, and found every combo imaginable in melee, practice his techskill and knew matchups inside and out, that took years of training. How the **** can you practice something which randomly spawns at different spots of the map?? you are really underestimating the impact your having on the future of brawl with you backing matches with random variables in it. Look at the big picture, items in brawl creates no skill gap, and a scenario where everyone can win. If you want a game like that be my guest.

I bet Justin Wong would love it that everygame he played and worked so hard on had items and random variables in it to destroy his skill in multiple games.

Play powerstone 2 if you want items in a party game, leave brawl alone.

 

[xxxn00b4lyf3817xxx]

Ken wasn't screwed no matter what, he could have opted to not grab the hammer. If ROB then grabbed it, Marth could have countered or what not. In items matches, even though an item may give a random player an advantage, almost always the other player can do something to counter or avoid the item. (Awaits crazy flames).

Rob with hammer... even if ken tried to counter Rob can fake out an attack leaving ken wide open, either that or wait it out at the edge but of course Rob can smash the platform anyways.

It looked pretty fun actually, in a non serious sort of way.

I like the announcer, I only watched the first video though so he could have said some dumb stuff.

I agree its fun in non serious fights but something as high caliber as EVO should not include items.

 

[bobson]

If you actually looked at the video, you will see that it spawned in front of ROB, Ken was off the stage when it spawned. Rob had 2 choices, get the hammer and kill ken, or let ken get it and kill him anyways. Ken was screwed either way at that point and Rob took the safer bet.

Technically it was between them. But my point was that most items are easily countered and the ones that aren't (starmen, pokeballs) would probably be disabled in a tournament atmosphere.

Bobson you forget that you saying what your saying right now is putting brawl at the bottom of the fighting game respect level. Street Fighter 2 turbo takes more skill than brawl does. That is ****ing pathetic

Boo hoo hoo, it doesn't play exactly like the million other fighting games out there. Smash was never intended to be a seriously competitive game.

You keep backing that items take skill to play, then when you watch enough matches you find that there are too many variables that can't be controlled. When m2k trained with marth, and found every combo imaginable in melee, practice his techskill and knew matchups inside and out, that took years of training. How the **** can you practice something which randomly spawns at different spots of the map??

It doesn't matter where they spawn (granted the obnoxious ones like starmen are disabled) if you know what to do whether your opponent gets it or you get it. I point you toward the very videos we're discussing: CPU didn't get any insanely lucky item spawns, he simply knew how to play with them when they were on the field.

you are really underestimating the impact your having on the future of brawl with you backing matches with random variables in it. Look at the big picture, items in brawl creates no skill gap, and a scenario where everyone can win. If you want a game like that be my guest.

Except items take skill to use. Christ, do I have to put it in big bold letters? If Ken knew how to use items as well as CPU, he would've ruined him, but he doesn't practice with them because items are not "approved," and was thus at a disadvantage that cost him the match.

 

[<π]

See what you fail to understand is that in competitive play when ever you pick up an item your opponent instantly loses a stock. This is why random items spawns are bad, if a chocolate bar swans next to you instead of your oponent and you don't reach it before they do you lose a stock. If sakurai wasn't such an idiot and actualy build away around this for competitive players items might be viable. but since items are just that broken there is no point in even turning them on. Unless you hit the casual button on the Wii that is.

 

[DEV64]

ken should have won d*mn it items suck they arent even fun just annoying they should have played with regular rules.

 

[metaXzero]

What's even worst then those matches (especially 2 and 3) is the fact that some idiots are going to use them to further their pro-item agendas. :******:

GGs by Ken and CPU though.

 

[RoyalRook]

that was really stupid. I can't believe that I actually sit through all that.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Lolololololol Cpu Is Horrible!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[skyace89]

Except items take skill to use. Christ, do I have to put it in big bold letters? If Ken knew how to use items as well as CPU, he would've ruined him, but he doesn't practice with them because items are not "approved," and was thus at a disadvantage that cost him the match.

there is no way on god's green earth you can tell me it takes skill to use items. with that being said you're telling me luck is a skill? items spawn in random areas of the map how can u practice with items spawning in random areas? can u practice winning the lotto? they have something in common i.e. randomness

saying using items takes skill is pretty much saying winning the lotto is skill.

 

[wul]

The commentary is abysmal and almost makes the videos unwatchable.

Ha, I had to turn my volume off. Seriously, every time they shouted, "CPUUUUU!!!!" I felt sick.

 

[metaXzero]

there is no way on god's green earth you can tell me it takes skill to use items. with that being said you're telling me luck is a skill? items spawn in random areas of the map how can u practice with items spawning in random areas? can u practice winning the lotto? they have something in common i.e. randomness

saying using items takes skill is pretty much saying winning the lotto is skill.

Actually using an item to your advantage properly takes SOME skill. But Item use being skill less isn't the argument against them. Its that (as those Smash Balls and bumper in Round 3 show) items give random and unpredictable advantages.

 

[bobson]

there is no way on god's green earth you can tell me it takes skill to use items. with that being said you're telling me luck is a skill? items spawn in random areas of the map how can u practice with items spawning in random areas? can u practice winning the lotto? they have something in common i.e. randomness

The same way you can practice with opponents who make seemingly random moves or on stages with randomly-spawning hazards. Learn to use them when and where they appear and be prepared for them.

Actually using an item to your advantage properly takes SOME skill. But Item use being skill less isn't the argument against them. Its that (as those Smash Balls and bumper in Round 3 show) items give random and unpredictable advantages.

But if you know how to deal with them, they'll always be on your side. The bumper, for instance; item-users instinctively know that bumpers are DANGEROUS, and you should approach enemies with them the same way you'd approach a Game&Watch with a full bucket. Ken made a critical mistake in not immediately going on the defensive when CPU picked it up. Although, in my opinion, the bumper is too powerful an item to be allowed in normal play, it certainly could've been avoided.
The smash balls will very very rarely be given to one player without the other player having any chance to take it. Who gets it all depends on player actions.

 

[★J.G WentWorth★]

A Tourny on such a large scale using items?

Skyworld???

 

[metaXzero]

bobson. Find another thread (And a better video)to push your pro-item agenda please. This isn't the place for item vs. no item discussion.

Though remember. FOR GOOD REASON, ITEM TOURNAMENTS WILL NEVER BE THE STANDARD.

 

[bobson]

bobson. Find another thread (And a better video)to push your pro-item agenda please. This isn't the place for item vs. no item discussion.

There are about six or seven posts in this thread not whining about how CPU is a complete newb and Ken only lost because items are totally reliant on luck and take no skill to use and Evo is a totally worthless tournament for allowing items and gosh don't items suck so much they just make you want to hit things. If I'm going to shout at brick walls, this is the thread to do it.

Edit: Actually taking another look through the thread, that was a bit harsh. There are enough sensible people in this thread to counteract the bits of stark idiocy overall. Regardless, there's an obvious connotation to this thread that the better player lost because of items, and I'm here to say that he's not necessarily the better player if he couldn't use items to his advantage.

 

[4Serial]

Wow.
That was so bull****.