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Evo 2k8 brawl rule set discussion (link inside)

W

wwepatriot

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
38
looks like a bunch of noobs to me, no wonder why the """PROS"""" are flocking there.
 
M

Mercury

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
99
jesus christ, they have no clue what they are talking about. why would anyone think that we would just ignore the smash ball, or even consider fighting the enemy when it's there? 90% of the roster will end up killing everyone on the screen once they get it, there is no mind games to it. i would definitely trade taking 20-30% for an easy kill, and the only time i would even bother trying to hit the enemy is if they were going to steal it.

if they put enough money up then sure people will do it, but no one is going to have any fun when the game starts and someone is about to get a kill, they get the smash ball, kill someone, wait for invincibility to go away, activate and get another kill.

i mean, i guess there is some inherent strategy to get the smash ball, but they just have no clue what they are talking about. "oh so and so's FS is so easy to dodge," i just don't understand that. any intelligent player could do something like, idk, grab and Dthrow to FS and it'll be impossible to dodge. and then they go and compare it to other game's infinites and all that - yea, we have that too, they are caled charged smash attacks.

i mean, whatever, they can do what they want with it. it's their tournament, and i or anyone else who doesn't like it doesn't have to play in it. it's just disappointing to have the kind of chance Brawl is getting and then they make a casual tournament.
 
memphischains

memphischains

Smash hhkj'
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
3,953
Location
Boston, MA
I'm going with the 3 stock. The people in the other forum were mostly saying 5 min, whichi is too short. melee was 6 - 8 and it was a lot faster. (but with 4 stocks so i guess it evens out), but i would like tosee a 6 - 8 min times limit.

Smashballs for evo should be on, but an option for every general tournement. Smashballs effect the game only if you let them, and some over powerful ones (marths) have their downside and are dodgable.
 
M

Mercury

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
99
memphischains said:
I'm going with the 3 stock. The people in the other forum were mostly saying 5 min, whichi is too short. melee was 6 - 8 and it was a lot faster. (but with 4 stocks so i guess it evens out), but i would like tosee a 6 - 8 min times limit.

Smashballs for evo should be on, but an option for every general tournement. Smashballs effect the game only if you let them, and some over powerful ones (marths) have their downside and are dodgable.
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yea, but what's stopping everyone from doing the optimal strategy - select Sonic, avoid as much damage as possible, go for FS when it appears, rinse/repeat. i'm really hoping someone does this just to show people. i don't mind changing the rules, in fact i don't even really agree with our current rules because some items really don't have a huge impact on the game and can be used , it's just that Smashballs have such huge potential to turn the game around and are so simple to use, it just contradicts completely what i would consider competitive much less tournament viable.

but again, i'm definitely not doing it, and nobody else has to. they are probably going to go ahead and do it anyway, it doesn't really seem like they care about what we want even if that's what they say.
 
Habanero Pepper

Habanero Pepper

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
192
Location
Reidsville, NC
I've lost my share of money matches to a smash ball appearing closer to the opponent when I was off the stage. I say nay on Smash Balls.

3 stock 8 mins sounds about right though. course we may need to make the seed charts ourselves as well to make sure they go well enough.
 
I

Imp

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
75
Location
Red Oak, Texas
Well, assuming there is no "lame strategies" such as the Sonic one that was previously mentioned, I still think that the better player would come out victor with or without the SmashBall. Not to say I'm a fan of items at all, personally I hate them, I just don't see it being a major factor in the game.

Edit: I don't think you can really judge someone's skill by their join date, even though oftentimes it will be a good indicator of how long the person has been competitively smashing (that just sounds funny) and thus how good the person is.
 
E

Ekaru

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
184
Location
Minneapolis MN
*sigh* Some of them think items/Smash Balls should be on...*facepalm* Some also think 5 minutes are a lot of time... I wonder how many of them have actually played Brawl seriously? FSes are unbalanced (Peach = bad, Marth = hit with ftilt/fair/dtilt and combo into fsmash, dead opponent, land master with Falco = one, if not two KOs) and items are too random. XP

I say 3 stock, 8 minutes, whatever stage list the Back Room comes up with, no items, no Smash Balls.

Also, have the counterpick system Melee tourneys have.

That sounds about right. I'll post what I think there later.
 
K

Kryian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
233
Location
Tallahassee, FL
Ekaru said:
*sigh* Some of them think items/Smash Balls should be on...*facepalm* Some also think 5 minutes are a lot of time... I wonder how many of them have actually played Brawl seriously? FSes are unbalanced (Peach = bad, Marth = hit with ftilt/fair/dtilt and combo into fsmash, dead opponent, land master with Falco = one, if not two KOs) and items are too random. XP

I say 3 stock, 8 minutes, whatever stage list the Back Room comes up with, no items, no Smash Balls.

Also, have the counterpick system Melee tourneys have.

That sounds about right. I'll post what I think there later.
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I'm willing to bet most of them have played Brawl 'seriously' just as long as you have....1 month (maybe 2 if you imported, when some SRKers did as well).
 
S2

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
Let's hope that whoever makes the ruleset doesn't go by their suggestions.

If so, this tournament is going to be the laughing stock of the smash community. There's a reason newbs don't make the rulesets, because they dont' understand balance.
 
Epok

Epok

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
590
Location
Grand Rapids MI
I REALLY think that smash balls should be off. I went to a tournament at Game 'N' Trade. The rules were 2min, items off, smash balls on. It became a total camp fest over the smash ball. It was really hard to watch. It was bad to watch people in a sense of skill you knew were better but got screwed over a smash ball. It comes down to If you get the smash ball you win, so it takes a lot away from the game. NO SMASH BALLS PLEASE!!

3 stock

5-6 minutes

Items and Smash balls off

I think that would be a good set of rules.
 
choknater

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
um, has ANYONE been keeping up with getyourtournament.com?

as far as i'm concerned, item tournaments sound legit.
not the smashballs part, but there are some balanced items.

open hearts, open minds, smashboardians... if you wanna go tell them all how to make the rules, then go for it. i will stand aside and watch what happens.
 
takeurlife2

takeurlife2

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
765
Location
beaumont, dallas, tx
wow, these scrubs want some hella-casual rules

almost all of them keep saying "derr smash ball ONNNN itll be funnnnnnnnn"

someone save these rules before they ruine the competition....
 
takeurlife2

takeurlife2

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
765
Location
beaumont, dallas, tx
lol when m2k posts, the discussion stops.

did they make the rules official? is the tourney officially wrecked by the smashball?

there might still be time to save evo
 
Alex Strife

Alex Strife

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
9,839
Location
NYC
Here is something interesting I found about brawl at Evo

There are some things where I hope I'm wrong. However, there are certain situations where you look at things and can't help but use the conspiracy card.

Throughout Saturday's "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" tournament at Granada Hills, I watched as many of the players in attendance complained about the items in tournament play.

Many of the players were telling me, "Items suck," without going into more detail. I
had to prod them to make them say why and what items sucked. And throughout the day, I felt that aura in the room, as if everyone was watching the tournament just to wait for that one moment where an item was the sole reason why someone won his or her match.

Once people found "that moment," it would be all the Smash community needed to tell the tournament organizers with the Evolution Fighting Game Championships that items should not be allowed into tournament play.

If I was to guess whether items would be allowed, right now I would say "yes, but not all of them." Seems like the debate has created several sides:

* -- No items
* -- Some items, but low or medium frequency
* -- Some items, but high frequency
* -- All items

Now, how does this relate to the title of "Sabotage?" Let me bring up a story ...

= = =

One of my past girlfriends is an avid video game player.

About 2004, some of my friends asked me what would happen if my ex entered one of my tournaments. Would I let her complete? Would she pay more to participate?

At the time, I told my friends this: I would let my ex compete and pay the same entry fee and all of that. But I wouldn't make things comfortable; I would try to make her tournament experience a very brief one.

How could I do that, especially if it's a double-elimination tournament? Oh, that's so
(scarily) easy.

I would set up a pod that, unless she just became great overnight, she could never get out of. Let's say the four-player pod was ...

My ex vs. DSF
Sniper vs. ShadowBTZO

We're talking about the best versatile player in SoCal, the most technical Fox in SoCal and one of the best Sheik players on the Central Coast. If you knew you had to face two of those three players, you would not unpack your bags because the outcome was nearly inevitable.

Safe to say, the tournament life for my ex wouldn't be one of the longest experiences she's had in her video game career. She'd get punished by DSF first. Then, she would probably have a combined 2-minute shine lesson from Sniper, or she would get chain grabbed to death by ShadowBTZO.

It sends a message; I'm not going to ban her from coming to my tournaments, but would she really want to come to any future tournaments?

= = =

That story came to mind after I talked to some competitors at Saturday's Brawl tournament. And I think it's something that the EVO tournament organizers have to look out for.

When Brawl was introduced into the lineup for EVO 2008, many people were happy, and a lot of other people were upset. Lines of "Kid game," "Fisher Price game," and "not even a fighter" were said throughout the Shoryuken forums.

"How could THIS game get a spot when there were others to choose from?" many people asked.

EVO is not budging. Brawl will be in the lineup, like it or not. And I think those who don't like it are trying to make sure it has a one-and-done showing.

Remember how I said the tournament organizers are asking people to prove that items are not worth having in competitive play? I really believe some people in the items debate are pushing the "must have items" card. Not only that, let's put all the items on heavy frequency. "With nothing being declared 'broken' yet, why not allow everything?" these people say.

Imagine if every item is on high frequency? The turnout for the tournament might not be what is expected (I'm putting the over-under right now at 275). Now picture all of the great players getting bounced early. Imagine a Championship Sunday where you have Scrub A, Scrub B, Scrub C, etc. ... Now imagine if some lucky kid out of nowhere wins the tournament with some sort of buffet of items?

Do you think the Smash community will want to come back to that in 2009? Probably not.

This is the "ex-girlfriend concept" that I brought up earlier. The
tournament experience was so harsh, it's so difficult to come back.

And if that's the case for the Brawl players at EVO, to where they don't come back or the game isn't in the 2009 lineup, it turns out to be a "win" for all of the Smash haters. The Smash haters suffered through two years. They manipulated the tournament organizers to create havoc, and now they won't have to see Smash ever again.

I feel I always have to make note that I do not want items in tournament play at EVO. But since it's looking like items will be in play, my hope is that the tournament organizers see through the "I hate smash" commentators who are hoping that so much chaos is created to the point Brawl doesn't make a repeat appearance.

Updated 3:53 p.m. (because I can't believe an alcoholic mixed drink, aka ****tail, is censored)
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