• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

EVO RULESET ANNOUNCED. The ruleset has been updated!

Status
Not open for further replies.

orochizoolander

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
11
Then the better player should be able to play on New Pork City, right? I mean, it's big, so what? The better player should be able to overcome that! Wario Ware? Pfft. The better player should be able to overcome those stage hazards!


Those rules are ****ing retarted. 'nuff said. I mean, I didn't think Brawl would return to Evo next year even with normal rules, but these pathetic rules just put over9000 nails into it's coffin.
Apparently you can't read because warioware and npc are banned according to the current evo rulset which may slightly change next weeek according to mr.wizard.

So you think these rules are ********? WOW you totally convinced me with that well presented persuasive argument and good job of not perpetuating the stereotype of a typical smashboard person:lick:

And 1 hit kill Final Smashes are not blatantly broken because? You do know the smashball spawns at random and in random places right? So the whole "better players get it first" concept is pretty illogical. And since Smash has always been a game of highly varied speed in characters, someone like Fox--who is not only fast. But also has a very over powered Final Smash now has a unfair advantage over some one like, Ness. Who has a terrible Final Smash. Not only that but, Falco's Final Smash has been known to take TWO STOCKS! You clearly have not done the testing you claim to have done. An item like a hammer randomly given to one character is not skill. Its luck.

Well if your opponent gets the smashball first because he/she was using a faster character then that's your own **** fault for using a slow character.

I'm not here to argue or start anything i'm simply explaining the thought process behind the EVO ruleset but apparently logical dispute is beyond most who post here because saying "items are a joke" or something like that passes for a good reason to not play with items around here.
 

dr0go

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
110
Location
san diego, california
i have my new rules!!! time is infinite.no stocks. the first person to KO someone with either falcon punch or ganons utilt wins.
this would prove the more skilled player wins.
 

MajinSweet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
295
Location
New York
Apparently you can't read because warioware and npc are banned according to the current evo rulset which may slightly change next weeek according to mr.wizard.

So you think these rules are ********? WOW you totally convinced me with that well presented persuasive argument and good job of not perpetuating the stereotype of a typical smashboard person:lick:




Well if your opponent gets the smashball first because he/she was using a faster character then that's your own **** fault for using a slow character.

I'm not here to argue or start anything i'm simply explaining the thought process behind the EVO ruleset but apparently logical dispute is beyond most who post here because saying "items are a joke" or something like that passes for a good reason to not play with items around here.
I guess you missed the part where smashballs spawn at random times and random places. So in many situation there will be nothing you can do to get the smashball in time. You tell us to argue logically, but you don't even listen to our concerns. And the reason items were first banned in melee was because bombs randomly spawning on top of people and killing them. How thats not a valid reason is beyond me. And yes, unless you ban all explosives in Brawl, that can still happen.
 

Anth0ny

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
4,061
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Apparently you can't read because warioware and npc are banned according to the current evo rulset which may slightly change next weeek according to mr.wizard.
:laugh:

I know that NPC and Wario Ware are banned. This rule set is allowing hammers, final smashes and a lot more random *** items, yet these stages are banned? I don't really see the logic in it...

I don't need a well presented and pursuasive argument...the rules are terrible. The majority of competitive smash players agree with me. Have fun at your crappy tournament that will probably end up flopping once word of these rules spread. It's a shame that I'm saying that about EVO, the best fighting game tournament in the world :ohwell:
 

orochizoolander

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
11
I guess you missed the part where smashballs spawn at random times and random places. So in many situation there will be nothing you can do to get the smashball in time. You tell us to argue logically, but you don't even listen to our concerns. And the reason items were first banned in melee was because bombs randomly spawning on top of people and killing them. How thats not a valid reason is beyond me. And yes, unless you ban all explosives in Brawl, that can still happen.
About this whole random thing you seem to be touting as your ringer...yeah with items on i'm sure there will be a fair amount of "randomness" and I get how that MAY kill the better player once in a while but **** happens. So according to the current rules you either deal with it or don't play in the tournament and go setup your own one.

If anyone has any logical reason as to why items should not be at EVO then post in the thread I linked. Or you can download chatzilla (I think it's only for firefox browsers) and get on efnet, once you're there type and enter /j #srkbrawl and you can try to convince the SRK members who play brawl there.
 

Best101

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
983
Location
Atlanta, GA
All smashboards ppl say items are "cheap" or "broken" and say how easy it is to win with items...but where is the proof? On SRK we keep all items on until they have been definitively proven to be broken or whatever, and if you honestly believe any item on that list is "broken" or "cheap" then prove it by abusing it to victory.
Proof? Try checking Smashboards' history with items. This site has been around for a long time buddy. I'm sure any experienced competitive smasher here can tell you from experience and videos on why items just isn't meant for competitive play. Older members here have already been through the item debate in Melee, why waste time doing it again in Brawl where it's clear that items are even more broken in Brawl than they were in Melee.
 

Anth0ny

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
4,061
Location
Toronto, Ontario
About this whole random thing you seem to be touting as your ringer...yeah with items on i'm sure there will be a fair amount of "randomness" and I get how that MAY kill the better player once in a while but **** happens.
But that's the thing. With a simple click of a button, we could prevent **** from happening!
 

TKD+ITA+Mar=

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
951
Location
San Diego
Items broken because:

Random Spawning + Advantage to closest = Random advantages within match = Better player doesn't always win

You really can't make it much simpler than that.
 

orochizoolander

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
11
Proof? Try checking Smashboards' history with items. This site has been around for a long time buddy. I'm sure any experienced competitive smasher here can tell you from experience and videos on why items just isn't meant for competitive play. Older members here have already been through the item debate in Melee, why waste time doing it again in Brawl where it's clear that items are even more broken in Brawl than they were in Melee.

Apparently you need to brush up on your language because last time I checked the word "broken" in relation to video games meant anything that is so overpowered that it's in unbeatable and is the equivalent of an instant win...now how is any of the items listed in the rules an instant win? Do you have any proof? Like I said if you have a problem with any of the rules post here http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=155899 Or get on efnet and type in /j #srkbrawl and tell us why items are broken there who knows you might convince SRK to take items out.

Anyways i'm done arguing with those who even refuse to give items a chance and instantly dismiss them, the bottom line is we have done test tournaments to see if items are truly "broken" and obviously in SRK's opinion they are not so that is why they'll be at EVO.
 

TriforceCore

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
117
Location
Whittier, Ca
I could see why 2 lives 3minutes for replays but at evo the matches are recorded anyways and who is this guy to come in here and start flaming us and says that his cheap *** rules
are valid?
 

TKD+ITA+Mar=

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
951
Location
San Diego
^^ By that logic, an item that gave the user 50 extra stocks and destroyed all of your opponents stocks except for his last and then gave him 999% would not be broken.
 

doodmahn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
223
Location
Savannah, Georgia
I don't think that Brawl is meant to be placed among the traditional fighting games, and this is one of the reasons why. :( They just don't get Super Smash Brothers.
 

Frames

DI
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
2,248
Location
UCF (Orlando, FL)
Items just give an unfair advantage, and with a major tournament like EVO, i hoped they would realize that losing a match because of an item is ridiculous. Items are banned not only because they create an unfair situation for both players, but this theory of "items takes skill" is ridiculous, items are easy to use, and require no skill whatsoever to simply dominate the opponent.

People don't seem to realize that what we've been doing in creating these rules for melee is to make the gameplay as fair and balanced as possible. But how exactly is something considered fair? Many fans of smash are more than just nintendo fans; they are fighting game fans, people who grew up in the arcades playing street fighter and marvel vs. capcom. Now suddenly we get this new game where Nintendo characters can fight one another, and we love it with items and every different stage and what not, but the truth is, that just isn't right for competitive play. People have criticized tournament players for years for "stripping down the game" and by "not playing the way it was meant to be".

Well guess what, you're right.

We're not playing it the way it was meant to be, because in melee and brawl, we see the potential for a great fighter. We judge a great fighter by looking at the great games of the genre, the games that are present at every Evo competition. Smash fans are fighting game fans too, and we just want to play smash like we do any other great fighter. And that typically involves a one-on-one match, on a flat level, with no distractions.

Yes, items are fun.
Yes, all the stages are great.

But that doesn't mean they should be played competitively. We measure true skill by having two opponents play each other with fair terms. We don't have these rules because we hate the game and want to make it worse. We have them because we love smash, and want to make it better, like the great fighters of our time.

So take off items, please, we just want the game to be as fair as possible, to ensure the perfect experience.
 

MajinSweet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
295
Location
New York
Remember guys, if you lose in the finals and have to kiss that prize money good bye because an exploding capsule spawned of top of you "tough ****".

This is just plain silly.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
SRK makes me laugh so hard that I cry. And then when I finished crying from laughter, I cried from sadness at realizing that they really are all a bunch of dumb ****s.

GG, SRK.
 

DarkBlue

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
53
Location
London
About this whole random thing you seem to be touting as your ringer...yeah with items on i'm sure there will be a fair amount of "randomness" and I get how that MAY kill the better player once in a while but **** happens. So according to the current rules you either deal with it or don't play in the tournament and go setup your own one.
Just have to address this paragraph.. It's really annoying me :ohwell:

The items may kill the better player, ey?
Well, say it's a two stock match. If the worse player in on their final stock at around 130%, he just managed to kill the better player once.
As the better player is flying off the screen and a golden hammer / smashball appears within reach of the worse player.

Even an idiot can kill someone significantly more skilled whilst holding a powerful item.. The skilled player has no means of stopping him or her obtaining this item, since they are awaiting respawn.

The worse player advances. The guy who practiced and put time and effort into learning the game walks away empty handed through no fault of his own. It is a major tournament. This goes against the very nature of competetive play and defies the very point of being good at the game in the first place. It just shouldn't happen.

The fix.. Go to item switch. Hit (low or) off. You've increased the value of competetion in said game by a significant amount.

If the rules don't get a bit of an overhaul then I don't think EVO-brawl will be nearly as successful as you think.
Most people will take your advice and host their own tournaments.


Also- Way to stereotype. :ohwell:
 

Lavos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
299
Location
Purdue, West Lafayette
XD

This is a joke!

SKR is a joke!

Evo is now a joke! (to smash players)

The fact that SRK members, who just started playing smash with Brawl have the arrogance to believe that they have a ****ing clue what they're talking about is beyond hilarious. It's flat out insulting. It's a kick to the groin! How can SRK possibly think that they've come up with the best ruleset after two months, when Smashboards has been playing for over ten years!? Especially if this is the result of their work! It's just stupidity at it's finest! Blind ignorance! I would honestly be shocked if any big names showed up to this at all.

I guess we can't exactly stop them. Have fun at Evo, all ten of you!

/rant
 

Slayers8anFTW

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
14
Location
New Albany, Indiana
I hope the admins catch this soon...first off, if I'm not mistaken...this belongs in tournament discussion...not tactical, I'm about 90% sure you're just trying to infuriate as many people as possible...second, I'm pretty sure there are two wires in your brain that are touching that shouldn't be, especially if you honestly think that this is a ruleset that would draw in anybody that takes Brawl seriously. It's not that we don't want to give items a chance...they had their chance, and it was proven many years ago that it just decreases from the skill factor necessary to seperate the elite from the scrubs. If you're going to defile the heart and soul of competitive smash, just take it off of your tournament schedule, and all of us true competitive smashers will stick to the tournamets that we know won't destroy the competitive spirit that has been developed in the smash series (Thanks MLG :p). Honestly...you make my heart hurt...
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
People, please keep this civil. I am just as dissapointed as the rest of you, but keep swearing and flaming under control.

Anyways,
Well if your opponent gets the smashball first because he/she was using a faster character then that's your own **** fault for using a slow character.
I loled. You outright admitted that items unbalance the game right there ^_^''



And I've posted this before, but I wanted to post it again simply because I don't have the time right now to write a new argument.
I made a post in the smash back room (if you don't know what it is, don't bother asking) in response to someone who was proposing that a controversial stage should be a random/neutral stage as it is a measure of "true skill". It may be a little strange out of context, but I thought the post could apply to many different things, so I decided to post it here:



I hate when people argue about things that take "true skill" in Smash. What is "true skill" in Smash? Many people argue that you need skill with items, on every stage, and with the character to have "true skill." But do we need those skillsets? I think the Smash community as a whole has gravitated towards putting the most emphasis on skills with a character, which is the most unique skill of the 3. Everybody, with every character, can have skill with items, and the skill required with characters to play on or adapt to stages varies only a little bit. But skill with a character is something that doesn't carry over despite who you play with (well, it does a little, but only the basics). The competitive Smash community seemed to quietly agree that having copious amounts of this skill should trump any of the others. IMO, Thats how the stage selection method came about. The whole idea of a "neutral" stage is to test how two players can fare against each other with minimal other factors involved. But you can still use your stage skills by counterpicking unusual places, i.e. Pictochat. Although, even if you win your counterpick, you may not necessarily the whole set. This way there can still be tests of skills on a stage, but those skills wont (in theory) trump character skills enough to take an entire set.

The way I see it is that "true skill" in Smash is defined differently among different communities. Many non-competitive smashers think "true skill" is skill with everything unique the game throws at you. I can see why they would think this way. But through time and experience, the competitive community has naturally evolved this definition of "true skill" in Smash to being mostly about the character/match-ups, and the rest with the stages.

While this may not necessarily be true, the way I see it is that the reason "true skill" to the competitive smash community evolved in the way it did is because they were able to look at things at the 'highest level of play.' The item skillset carries over with every character, with a lot of overlap amongst the characters. At the highest level of play, having an impeccable item game would be a basic skill required, almost like being able to recover. If two players at the highest level of the metagame were to have a match, skill with items isn't a factor anymore. Instead, it boils down to inherent character advantages/disadvantages, as well as random chance, as to who is 'better' with items in that game. Much of that applies to stages as well. When two players at the highest level play each other on a stage, they will both understand the stage in and out, and be able to adapt to it, or take advantage of it, etc. And in the end, the match doesn't become a test of who has more skill on a stage, but it boils down to which character has more of an advantage/disadvantage on that given stage. The reason so much emphasis is placed on characters is that there is no single playstyle with the characters. You can play in your own unique way so at the 'highest level of play', character match-ups that aren't ridiculously one-sided can play out differently every single game. The amount of depth provided by characters, playstyles, match-ups, etc. is the only skill that, at the highest level of play, is still determined by the player, instead of inherent imbalances present in the game. At least, thats what I believe.
 

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
is the 3 min time rule to save replays? That doesnt work lol. As soon as it goes into sudden death then you cant save the replay anymore. Something they overlooked?
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Sudden Death FTW. I know that if I went to a tournament I'd want my victory to hinge on whether or not a bomb spawns on top of my head first :laugh:

Edit: At guy above me, it may not be an instant kill, but its an instant, unavoidable 90+ damage, which is, you know, sort of over powered.
 

itsameSMB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
332
Location
Sheboygan, WI
Heh heh, most of you took the bait hook, line, and sinker. If they want to hold a tourney that way, let them. If the tourney stinks, just don't go!
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Lol @ smash balls.

Theres a difference between manning up and just being a ******. Evo is boarder lining ****** right now.
Borderlined? SRK has a history of being ********. That's what they're good at.
 

Lawlb0t

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
1,731
Location
360 Degrees
The people who support items are just not smart. Thats all it is. If they were smart enough, they would realize that its random and lowers the skill. You cannot win an arguement against a ******. Its impossible, they cannot be enlightened no matter how hard you try.

This is just more reason for me to hate casual elitists. Actually, casuals in general. So many games have been getting watered down these past few years, I don't know what is going on with this friendly pick up and play crap, but its awful and ruins great games.

edit: (sp)
 

Hoots

Can Be Combative
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
1,595
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe this is actually serious. I play the game pretty casually, I just went to my first tourney last weekend and it was a small one, and I have to say this ruleset is TERRIBLE. The CORRECT way to play Brawl is 3 stock 7 minute timer, same 5 stages on random with counterpicks. I liked items in melee but Brawl items are just GAY. I am assuming the people who thought of the ruleset had never played Smash before and don't play it competitively at all.


100 bucks says Little Jimmy who just camps with Toon Link is going to win the tourney with a golden hammer. He will then think he is the best at Brawl and will gloat about it. Then, to pwn some noobs with his leetness he will go real tournament with legitimate rules, get his *** kicked and *****.
 

Lawlb0t

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
1,731
Location
360 Degrees
Ye thats why I am hoping any pros like m2k, azen, chillin or any pro or semi pro don't go. It would start up so much **** if a pro lost to some scrub because he had a bat.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
Ya know, IIRC, Korean DJ won the Brawl tournament (Nintendo's I think) that had items on. I'm sure pros will go, dominate, and place, but it doesn't mean they'll enjoy it as much ^_^'' I think most people agree that SWF users will likely take the highest places in Evo.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Ye thats why I am hoping any pros like m2k, azen, chillin or any pro or semi pro don't go. It would start up so much **** if a pro lost to some scrub because he had a bat.
That's exactly why any sensible competitive player shouldn't attend. If you're serious about Smash, you wouldn't even put yourself in a situation where that could happen. Not with money on the line.
 

Yawgmoth

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
61
These rules reflect the average intelligence of the type of people who make up the Brawl community now. I suggest getting used to it if you want to bother with playing this game in the future. This is not Melee where you can expect people to be intelligent about what they do.
 

Lawlb0t

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
1,731
Location
360 Degrees
They won't be enjoying it when they get ***** by a landmaster. Lolol. I love Evo, but screw it this year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom