EVOLUTION 2007= SSBM singles!

[TheCatPhysician]

But I like happy noob fun time...

Anyways yeah, now that I think about it it's kind of cool that they do this. It's so it's only for the really good players. Seems fitting for the tournament where Smash is being represented to all the other fighting games.

So I'd definitely be better suited at regular tournaments, until I get good.

 

[TGS]

As someone who has followed and participated in the Evolution series since 2002 and has a general knowledge of how they have run tournaments in the past, I'd like to debunk some myths and rumors that have popped up in here regarding this year's Evolution series.

1. Regarding Single Elimination: THIS WILL DEFINITELY ONLY APPLY TO THE EVO SOUTH QUALIFIER. Why? Because it is likely the Evolution staff is forced to work under time constraints enforced by the people running the SXSW Film Festival. ALL OTHER EVO QUALIFIERS WILL DEFINITELY BE DOUBLE ELIMINATION FOR ALL GAMES AS THEY WERE IN THE PAST.

Bottom Line: SINGLE ELIMINATION WILL ONLY BE ENFORCED AT EVOLUTION SOUTH. BET ON IT.

Oh yeah, in case anyone forgets: THERE IS A 128-PLAYER CAP AT EVO SOUTH FOR ALL GAMES. Why? FREE ENTRY, plus $1000 split 70/20/10 guaranteed to the top 3 placers in each and all games. Reserve your spot ASAP if you don't want to be left out...

2. At Evo South, the tourneys for 4 of the 8 games will be run simultaneously on each day (there are 2 days) due to time constraints (blame the venue people, not the Evo staff), which means there is a high probability of tourney logistic disasters popping up (i.e. tourneys stalling because participants are participating in other games and cannot play their matches at the time). Good thing this is single elimination... But at least it's 2/3 games so you have some leeway to adjust to your opponent unlike last year's Evolution series where Capcom vs. SNK 2 was only ONE GAME (and is likely to be only ONE GAME again this year).

Bottom Line: At Evo South, expect some slight delays. But at the other Evo qualifiers, expect a much smoother process as Evo will have enough time to run each game's tourneys in "time blocks" (i.e. SSBM will run from 1 P.M. till 4 P.M., SF3 will run from 4:30 P.M. till 7 P.M., etc.) to whittle down the number of contestants from how many entered to the top 8. Then all top 8 for all games will play in the final day where everyone gets to sit down and watch the final matches for each game one by one.

I hope that clears up some misconceptions... If you have any questions in general about Evolution's history, I can answer them. Except for SSBM-specific official rules; best to ask Renegade or Mr. Wizard about them.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Thanks for clearing all that up about Evo South and single elimination.

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

its single elim b/c this is run by SRK not the kishes, they could care less how many matches people who suck play.

i like it better, its a tournament, not an endurance contest or happy noob fun time

i dont think double elim is a "happy noob fun time".

 

[Renegade]

TGS is correct.

Single Elim only applies to Evo South b/c of SXSW. However, the tradeoff is that it's free. That's 30 bucks you get to keep in YOUR pocket.

Trust me, single elim is JUST as bad for something like CvS2, where's it's usually one game. Congrats! you got buktooth first round! Yay!

 

[Aesir]

Dude, I'm not being arrogant, you started targeting my posts and I'm replying back. They did switch the rules because of everyone's complaints(will). I'm pretty good in smash, but I won't say I'm the best, knowing this, and considering I have never heard of you before, you might be one of those people who go down within the first round. I don't wish this upon you, but, I know that any pro who looks at these rules are peeing their pants in happiness, and will love to take advantage of the mute city stage and and cheese you out. And let's not forget Green Greens, these stages are banned for a reason. And even when this event does happen in the north east and west, those gay rules will still apply.

your post came off as very arrogant to think that they'll just listen to us like that. from what I gather you were basically saying, do as we say or we're not going kinda attitude, which isn't going to fly.

 

[g-regulate]

its a tournament, not an endurance contest or happy noob fun time

lolol good **** forward

 

[phish-it]

When Forward fights PC first round, he'll love happy fun noob time.

Even if this monster was only single elimination, it's free entry. But double elimination too? Where will they go next?

 

[Mr. 3000]

your post came off as very arrogant to think that they'll just listen to us like that. from what I gather you were basically saying, do as we say or we're not going kinda attitude, which isn't going to fly.

Well, they did, everyone kept saying stuff like, aww 2v2's I'm not going or I knew some people who wanted to come, now they are not due to 2v2's. You underestimate the power of "the people". If they hold something that majority dislikes, the turnout wont be as big, so they have to cater to the people to get a big turnout. Everything in this world is ran by what the majority wants, so don't talk to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, and to let you know, I was going to EVO either way, I was just letting you know of the complaints of everyone else, I don't have to speak for them, you can read around other EVO topics and read them complaining.

 

[Aesir]

^ I have I don't care what other poeple think. why should I it makes no difference to me.

they're under so many time constraints that they can't do doubles and singles. Singles are far more sought after then doubles are.

 

[Mr. 3000]

^ I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything to you, my very first post on this topic was not to see if you cared or not, you just started targetting my posts. I know they are under time constraints, but even if 1v1's are more sought after, it doesn't remove the fact they are using gay rules and stages( mute and green greens), also, 1v1's are only in high demand when they are ran correctly, if they aren't, then 2v2's are much more better, cause you don't have to seed in 2v2's.

 

[pockyD]

mute city and green greens are perfectly legit and if i recall correctly, were MLG stages

i dunno, anyone who refers to a stage as "gay" is just a big whiner and probably a huge idiot too; you don't have to go if you don't approve of the stages

 

[AlphaZealot]

Mr. 3000: Doubles is essentially singles times two for most people. In other words, you throw two good singles players on a team, the doubles match turns into two separate 1v1's, and there you go, you have a good doubles team. The number of lesser skilled singles opponants who are able to overcome two really good singles players on a team stands at...1, the newlyweds, and maybe 2 if you include manachu (mana being the weaker player, but he has stepped it up recently). So yea, doubles is just as seed worthy as singles is and teams are just as dominant, the only differance is you only need half the time to complete the tournament. Either way, first in doubles would be $350 a person, wow, what great cash, I'd much rather see a person walk away with $700.

And who exactly are you speaking for? The number of people who have your stance stands at...you...and...thats pretty much it. I'm sure you can dig up a few others, but the vast majority of people out there will want singles, not doubles, and just because its single elimination doesn't mean we are going to want it to be doubles. If it were doubles, it would STILL BE single elimination.

 

[Mr. 3000]

Ouch! I think I jus got called an idiot behind stating an opinion of of mine. This is the one problem I have with the smash community, too many people who wait around and attack people's posts directly, I didn't call anyone by name, and then you 2 people attack me as if you know it all. Oh and Alpha Zealot, I disagree with you, if a team is good enough and can work well as a team they keep split ups from continously happening. I didn't say I was speaking for anyone, just stating my opinion. Pocky D, I'm not whinning, niether am I an idiot, there are quite a few people who have stated that mute city, maybe not so much green greens should be banned. People like you make me hate to discuss things on this board because instead you just disagreeing or coming up with a decent argument you choose to call people names and insult their intelligence.

 

[pockyD]

calling anything "gay" in a serious argument just implies that you're about 12 years old

you could've made a valid argument about it citing WHY you think it's an unfair stage, but instead of rationalizing your opinion, you just called it "gay" (which carries NO MEANING) with no backup

i'm just saying if you're incapable of proving your point (which you seem to be), then stop arguing before you fail even more

 

[KishPrime]

We don't split people up very often... <_<

 

[phish-it]

I really don't see how people can be complaining about this. EVO didn't have to take smash into it's line up, yet they wanted to expand the community so they did. Now, I'm not too familiar with the competitive scene of other fighting games, but I'm pretty sure they are only holding one type of tournament per game. They aren't even doing this whole event for profit either, considering it is free entry and decent rule set, I don't see how you could complain.

 

[Mr. 3000]

calling anything "gay" in a serious argument just implies that you're about 12 years old

you could've made a valid argument about it citing WHY you think it's an unfair stage, but instead of rationalizing your opinion, you just called it "gay" (which carries NO MEANING) with no backup

i'm just saying if you're incapable of proving your point (which you seem to be), then stop arguing before you fail even more

Ok bud, lemme break it down, since you dont have enough experience to know why I said it was gay. Green Greens-Capt Falcon and the G-dorf cant up B through the yellow kirby bricks, plus, bombs appear to deal extra damage and even in certain situations kill the plyer who hits or lands on it. Even though I dont use those 2 it doesnt remove the fact that its unfair. Mute City- I'm pretty sure you know darn well that there is no edges to grab unto thus, peach and jiggly puff have a VERY unfair advantage here against everyone, not only that but touching the street deals 18% damage everytime. There, you happy, thats why I said they were gay, next time I'll say unfair instead, oh, and just because you say gay doesnt make you 12 pal, stop trying to make yourself look so smart, if you do play smash competitively, I shouldn't have even had to tell you why those stages were unfair.

 

[Mr. 3000]

Anyway, lookin forward to seein' good competition, not just in smash, but in the other games as well at EVO..........hehe, yea, I know it's a double post, but, hopefully this message will show that I'm through stressin' my opinion.

 

[phish-it]

You could argue FD is unfair because certain characters can chainthrow 0-death. Battlefield is unfair because you don't always grab the edges and Pokemon stadium being unfair because fox can infinite against the walls.

 

[Hylian]

God I can't wait for this. I am looking forward to HOST 2 more though >_>...Is anyone else gonna enter any other games? I'm entering Tekken...

 

[MrWizard]

Yes South only is Single elimination, and we apologize for this. The time constraints we have are enormious and we wont be able to do anything there. We tried to make up for it with free entry and free guarenteed payout.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

 

[Mr. 3000]

You could argue FD is unfair because certain characters can chainthrow 0-death. Battlefield is unfair because you don't always grab the edges and Pokemon stadium being unfair because fox can infinite against the walls.

Hehehe, oh boy, here we go, yet another from the woodworks. FD, I didnt say anything about it being banned because YOU can grab edges and 0-death, learn how to DI right and you can avoid death, sometimes at least. Yes, on battlefield sometimes you can't grab the edges, but at least unlike mute city, it has edges to grab. You bring up fox, well, fox isn't just good on P-Stadium, he is also really good on FD and quite a few more stages.

 

[phish-it]

I'm just bringing up flaws in the the levels which could favor certain characters over others. Just like you did. Seriously, If Green Greens and Mute City especially were that faulty do you think they'd even be available for counterpicks this far in the tournament scene?

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

I'm just bringing up flaws in the the levels which could favor certain characters over others. Just like you did. Seriously, If Green Greens and Mute City especially were that faulty do you think they'd even be available for counterpicks this far in the tournament scene?

mute city isn't TOO bad, but green greens? give me a****ing break more like fox foxes amiriet?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

mute city isn't TOO bad, but green greens? give me a****ing break more like fox foxes amiriet?

I agree. Green Greens is pretty terrible.

 

[Aesir]

Blue beat mofo on green greens its pretty terrible.

 

[ChaosKnight]

its still legal ... i would keep it on but man oh man at complaining about mute city and green greens. it is finnee and should be left ... lots of people have advantages on the stages but if used correctly any character can ..

Its all about the Mindgames!

 

[Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.]

its still legal ... i would keep it on but man oh man at complaining about mute city and green greens. it is finnee and should be left ... lots of people have advantages on the stages but if used correctly any character can ..

Its all about the Mindgames!

no, just shut up. fox is ridiculous on green greens. it has probably the shortest deathbox in the game, allowing for insanely low percent usmash and uair kills. it also is way too easy to shinespike on. mute city is not HALF as bad.

 

[Ignatius]

Hehehe, oh boy, here we go, yet another from the woodworks. FD, I didnt say anything about it being banned because YOU can grab edges and 0-death, learn how to DI right and you can avoid death, sometimes at least. Yes, on battlefield sometimes you can't grab the edges, but at least unlike mute city, it has edges to grab. You bring up fox, well, fox isn't just good on P-Stadium, he is also really good on FD and quite a few more stages.

So basically FD is a good stage because you like it, and mute should be banned because you don't? You're right, Peach and Jiggs do have an advantage on Mute, but that doesn't make them unbeatable. The stage doesnt have edges, but you can use the road to get back up as well. Watch me use your logic: and no ledges? Learn to DI and use the stage to your advantage.

Every stage favors certain characters, if you think that's not true, you're ********.

 

[Mr. 3000]

Heh, I didn't say that I liked FD or hated Mute in my post, I was just saying that out of all the stages they are the worst out of them in tournament format. I know how to DI, but tell me, mr. pro, how do DI a jiggly or peach who continously either neutral a's or forward a's me off of the platform at mute city when it's at the part to when there isn't a street at the bottom. Oh, and only a very few characters can use that stage to their advantage over peach, jiggly and especially fox.

And geez, whats with the people always trying to call someone an idiot or ******** when someone speaks on here. I could say you're an idiot for not readin' my post correctly, but I won't, because I want to discuss things on this board without stooping to that type of crap.

 

[Ignatius]

You're right, for about 14 seconds, you are very vulnerable to that, but as you know exactly when that part of the stage is coming, you try to avoid being put in that bad of a situation at that time. If they get you off the stage right before it shifts to that, then they earned themselves a chance to edgeguard. If you're still on the stage then, play defensively for the short time that it is like that so you don't get cheaped out of a stock.

Jiggs can WoP you off stages normally anyway, so it's not that different from what she does normally. And Fox can shine spike you on any stage as well before you can grab the ledge. Peach can dair>nair edgeguard on edges too, hitting people before they can sweetspot, so there's really no huge change from what they can do normally anyway.

I never called you and idiot. I just pointed out that your logic is flawed, and it is.

 

[Drephen]

i think fox, falco, and falcon are broken on FD

that and green greens is an okay stage, the camera freaking out ticks me off though, and random bomb blocks

 

[AlphaZealot]

I think Green Greens is the most questionable stage, but it will always be that way, I just have a problem because the blocks are more or less random in their locations, if I could predict where each block would fall and whether or not they would be a bomb or not I would like the level a lot better.

And geez, whats with the people always trying to call someone an idiot or ******** when someone speaks on here. I could say you're an idiot for not readin' my post correctly, but I won't, because I want to discuss things on this board without stooping to that type of crap.

I don't see it often, usually people are only called idiots when they say something idiotic, which I suppose you experiance more often than other people. Besides making your arguement "don't call people idiots" is more or less a cop out and is simply you getting defensive when your points are easily and swiftly shot down.

 

[Renegade]

Lolz. The SSBM community needs to chill out about stage whining. Seriously. When I went over the rules to the EVO guys, they were like "wow, that's a lot of bans".

And it is. Like, every stage that has something different or odd about it, people complain. But seriously, no matter how screwed up a stage is...

IF YOU LOSE, YOU STILL HAVE COUNTER PICK!

There, that's it. End of Story. No more whining.

By this logic, I'd almost say it'd be semi fair to open up ALL stages to counter picks. Have the 6 neutrals for the 1st match, and every other stage be open for counters on the 2nd and 3rd match. If you want icicle mountain, go right ahead. But be prepared for Flat Zone on the 3rd match!

(by the way, i'm not seriously advocating this, but due to counter pick rules, there really should be NO complaining)

If you lose the 1st match, you lost "home field advantage" so to speak.

If you win the 1st match and they counter stage you, you still have the 3rd match in which to pick the stage.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Good call wes. I suck at singles so what's the point of players like me even going if there are no teams?

That isn't....true....>_>

Yeah...

Too bad they don't have doubles as of now,or i'd totaly play with Taco Head.He's too good in 2v2.

>=D

*Runs from his beastly Falco*

 

[Aesir]

Renegade the reason why we're complaining about it is because green greens is like one of the worst stages ever. You're just gonna have a bunch of fox's ****** it up in that stage and fox needs no help in the ****** department >_>

 

[Sintenal]

Lolz. The SSBM community needs to chill out about stage whining. Seriously. When I went over the rules to the EVO guys, they were like "wow, that's a lot of bans".

And it is. Like, every stage that has something different or odd about it, people complain. But seriously, no matter how screwed up a stage is...

IF YOU LOSE, YOU STILL HAVE COUNTER PICK!

There, that's it. End of Story. No more whining.

By this logic, I'd almost say it'd be semi fair to open up ALL stages to counter picks. Have the 6 neutrals for the 1st match, and every other stage be open for counters on the 2nd and 3rd match. If you want icicle mountain, go right ahead. But be prepared for Flat Zone on the 3rd match!

(by the way, i'm not seriously advocating this, but due to counter pick rules, there really should be NO complaining)

If you lose the 1st match, you lost "home field advantage" so to speak.

If you win the 1st match and they counter stage you, you still have the 3rd match in which to pick the stage.

actually there are reasons for most stages getting banned. Stages like Hyrule, Termina Bay, Fourside, and Yoshi's Island 64 are very easy to camp/stall on due to how the stages are made. Hell ask Mattdeezie about his 30 minute match at MOAST1 on hyrule.

Other stages like Brinstar Depths, Icicle Mountain and Big Blue tend to have unpredictable movements as far as the level goes(Brinstar Depths also has a glitch where you can actually fall through the level). in some cases, the level itself kills more than your opponent(though I never really thought this for Big Blue, but i can see why people would think it should be banned for tournies)

I do agree that tournies today are going way overboard with the stage banning, it is necessary to get rid of a few. Stages play a very important part of smash, its not as simple as "you have a counter pick" because at point you won't ;x

 

[kirbstir]

The stage banning in the US isn't nearly as overboard once you look at how Japan does things.

What will happen when someone tries to get the Japanese to come to Evo finals? Will they scoff at what they would probably perceive as a "ridiculous stage set"?

On that note, how was this handled at OC2? And also, is anybody from the Evo organization actually going to bring the Japanese smashers over here?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

People should keep in mind that Smash was also designed to be played as a party game. Doesn't it seem like they might have made the less crazy stages for people who wanted to play competitively? Kind of like how they put in the option to turn off items? Everyone seems to be in the mindset of "we must use every single thing in the game unless we absolutely don't have to." I think the Japanese have it right: they just play the stages that are the best for competitive Melee matches, the two most basic stages so that there aren't ridiculous counterpicks like Fox on Green Greens.

If they made a new Street Fighter with a few crazy stages for casual players to have fun, does that mean those stages shouldn't be banned at SF tournies, even if competitive players couldn't find a specific reason to ban them? It would force them to start playing the stage more than the game, and even if there aren't broken counterpicks for the crazy stages, that's not what's awesome about Street Fighter.

What will happen when someone tries to get the Japanese to come to Evo finals? Will they scoff at what they would probably perceive as a "ridiculous stage set"?

On that note, how was this handled at OC2?

At OC2 they made a compromise with the Japanese - only the six neutral stages are allowed for the entire set. I personally like these rules the best.