Executing combos

[Strider755]

I know Zero Suit Samus is a combo-heavy character, so it's a good idea to know exactly what her best combos are and when they're viable.

However, I have a problem with the execution. I'm trying to get the combos I see in battle vids, but I simply can't get the same results. A lot of times i'm hitting everything but the opponent, and when I do manage to get the opponent into a combo, I can't finish the combo off.

An especially irritating problem is finishing a combo with an ^b. A lot of times, only the first part of the move hits, and the opponent squirts out before I can finish. How do i prevent that?

 

[Otterz]

I'd say getting to know the physics of ZSS is pretty important, considering she jumps much higher and falls faster than Charizard. Also make sure not to buffer a jump after an aerial such as UpAir because it'll eat it and you'll just do a falling aerial instead of a rising one, thats something I had to personally work around.

As for Up B, make sure you are even with them vertically. If you are below them when you start the Up B they will almost always get out of it.

 

[Strider755]

Oh, so that's why they squirt out of ^B.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Our combos tend to have a thin range. I'm trying to help characterize that range, but I have to order a turbo controller to complete the research on that. In general though, somewhere around 27-39% is where the true bread and butter combo lands for real (down throw, up air, up air, boost kick). If you do a modified bread and butter combo (down throw, up air, jump, boost kick), it extends the viability by approximately 15-20%. Technically, modifying it further extends the viability almost indefinitely (down throw, double jump, boost kick). However, opponent DI very easily interferes with this version. I like the other two because you have until the whiffed up air to see if the boost kick will hit. If you see them fall out at that point, or DI to far away, you can just land or try another aerial to avoid a whiffed boost kick.

Speaking of boost kick, you should also know that you can DI the boost kick forward or backwards. The difference is mild, but it can be enough to keep someone in the move. People tend to DI down and behind ZSS, so I usually go for moving boost kick backwards. But overall, just try to keep an eye on your opponent and follow them. Doing a good job of that can make boost kick much harder to fall out of, even for a select few lighter weight characters (fat chance on someone like jiggs though).

Consistency with the combos is a matter of practice. Go to training, set Mario to 40% and try the full bread and butter combo. The combo counter should not reset if you do it right. Common mistakes are as follows: 1. Make sure you jump immediately when the down throw lets you. This is just after she puts her leg down. 2. Make sure you jump right after the cooldown on up air is over. This is just after the blue flame animation on her heel is over.

Practice makes perfect!

 

[Tomo009]

I've actually been testing a lot of numbers on this, my execution isn't perfect and I'm using training dummy so no DI (lower %s where things work likely will not kill a conscious opponent) but if you want me to post what i've done so far I can, it is really long though.

Spoiler

Combos and kill setups

Sheik

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 85% on FD



down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 28%



dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 32% on FD

very hard at 39%

40%-43% can kill on FD before final upB hit

Need a delay from ~40 to get the final hit

With delay works up to at least 45%, maybe higher, needs better testing

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 43%, maybe lower.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Works until at least 62%+++++ keep testing
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 52% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > RAR bAir

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 119% on FD


____________________________________________________________________________________

Mario

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 95% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 28%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 32% on FD

works until at least 45%, needs further testing

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 51%, maybe lower.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Works until at least 60%+++++ keep testing
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 58% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 133% on FD

____________________________________________________________________________________


Meta Knight

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 85% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 28%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 28% on FD

very difficult before 30%

Need a delay from ~40 to get the final hit

????????????????????????????????????
seems to not work at 45-46%
????????????????????????????????????

works at 47% but is really difficult, makes me think 45 and 46 should work similarly


dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 45%, maybe lower.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Works until at least 61%+++++ keep testing
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 54% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 120% on FD

____________________________________________________________________________________

Fox

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 84% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 27%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 27% on FD

very difficult before 30%

41%-42% can kill on FD before final upB hit which seems to be the highest this works on Fox

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 45%, maybe lower.

Works until at least 62%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 52% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 121% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Sonic

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 90% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 29%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 34% on FD

works until at least 44%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 45%

Works until at least 70%, maybe higher

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 55% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 129% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Captain Falcon

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 102% on FD

down throw

dThrow > uAir > falling dAir
true from at least as low as 32%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 35% on FD

works until at least 58%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 44%

Works until at least 89%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 69% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 145% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________


Pit


raw upB
kills from at least as low as 94% on FD

down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 30%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 35% on FD

works until at least 45%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 48%

works until at least 66%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 58% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 132% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Villager

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 91% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 29%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo at 37%-38% on FD

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 48%

works until at least 60%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 55% on FD

Works until at least 250%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 130% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Wario

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 106% on FD

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 32%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 32% on FD

works until at least 63%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 58%

works until at least 95%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 70% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 140% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lucario

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 97% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 32%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 32% on FD

works until at least 46%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo on FD from at least as low as 39%

works until at least 75%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 61% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 137% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Bowser

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 106% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 38%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 38% on FD

works until at least 60%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 56% on FD

works until at least 84%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 64% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 147% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Ness

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 88% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 26%

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 34% on FD

works until at least 40%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 49% on FD

works until at least 64%

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 52% on FD

Works until at least 300%

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 125% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lucas

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 88% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 34% on FD

works until at least 42%

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 48% on FD







_______________________________________________________________________________________


Greninja

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 88% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 34% on FD

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 49% on FD

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 52% on FD

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 124% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Zero Suit Samus

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 85% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump >uAir
true from at least as low as 26%


dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 32% on FD

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 44% on FD

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 50% on FD

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 123% on FD

_______________________________________________________________________________________


Yoshi

raw upB
kills from at least as low as 95% on FD


down throw

dThrow > uAir > double jump > uAir > upB
true kill combo from 36% on FD

dThrow > uair > double jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 48% on FD

dThrow > jump > upB
true kill combo from at least as low as 56% on FD

dThrow > jump/double jump uAir kill
kill combo from at least as low as 128% on FD

 

[Strider755]

I tried practicing all these but no dice. I still can't land my hits.

 

[Trifroze]

The thing about boost kick is that it actually connects the most reliably if you connect from the 2nd hit onwards (you'll know you connected with that if the opponent gets hit 7 times total during boost kick). Hitting with hit 3 will often cause the opponent to drop out of the attack, hits 4-6 will launch them upwards, hit 7 will also cause them to drop out, and hit 8 is the finisher.

Hit 1 is sometimes reliable, sometimes not, and it depends on how much rage you have and who the opponent is. So far nothing seems to escape boost kick if you hit with the second hit while not moving forward or backward during it, because it spaces you just the right way relative to the opponent for the rest of the attack to connect properly. As long as the opponent is slightly above your height before the up b, this will happen.

 

[Strider755]

And what about my up-air combos? I can't ever land those accurately.

 

[rainsaint]

I think you might have to lab out the timing for the up air/ up b combo. I managed to pull it off on Falcon at 40. Once you hit it, try and repeat what you just did until it becomes muscle memory. It's also DI dependent if I'm not mistaken

Skip to 0:37 to see how it looks

 

[Strider755]

The DI may have something to do with it.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

And what about my up-air combos? I can't ever land those accurately.

Yo~

There are two possibilities here: you're in the wrong percent range for this to work, or you aren't buffering the jump out of up air. The first is already covered in a longer post I did above, but here I have a visual cue that helps me with buffering the jump. Firstly, to buffer a move or action, you need to hit it within 9 or 10 frames of the ending of the prior move. So, in this case, you want to press jump within 9 or 10 frames of the end of the animation to get a buffered jump.

Her up air hits on frames 6-12 but doesn't end until frame 34. You need to wait 13-19 frames until the buffered jump will work out OK. In my experience, waiting until the blue rocket boost animation on her feet disappears is a good visual cue for this.

Hopefully that helps!

 

[Strider755]

I found that setting my L button to jump makes buffering the jumps a lot easier. I'm having a bit more luck comboing now.

 

[Snakeee]

Do we have time to Down throw - dash forward - jump up air with perfect timing?

 

[David Viran]

Do we have time to Down throw - dash forward - jump up air with perfect timing?

Yes, that is how you catch DI away with uair.

 

[Snakeee]

Omg, not knowing that has literally costed me tournaments *smacks forehead* . Ok thanks for the info