Exhaustive Research on Doubles Matches involving Lucario

[Milln]

Since I'm pretty sure (or at least, don't recall) no one did any actual testing on how Lucario's modifiers work in teams, we, including myself, just made assumptions based on how it worked in singles. Well.... see for yourself. Some of it's pretty straightforward, but some of it's confusing. It's not complete (I got bored), but the data that has been gathered (I'll finish it later) should give you some weird idea of what to expect. I used Fsmash, cause it's the easiest thing to test. All I have is stuff at 0% for the moment. Plans to check at 50, then 80, then 130 are next.



~ = Approximate, give or take 2%
TK = Team Kill, You killed your teammate
PK = Partner Kill, Your Partner killed you
SD = Self Destruct, no one hit them to cause their death
Fall = You were killed by the other team
PFall = Your partner was killed by the other team
KO = You were responsible for the death of an enemy team member because you're too beast.
PKO = Your partner felt you didn't need to dirty your paws.
For situations, L = Lucario, 2P= Your teammate, 3P = Enemy 1, 4P = Enemy 2

All Fsmashes are tippered and fresh.

Fsmash at 0%, No Adv, No Disadv: 11%
Fsmash at 0%, 1SD: 16~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2SD: 21~% (19 to 23)

Fsmash at 0%, 2SD, Partner 1SD: 21~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2SD, Partner 2SD: 21~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2SD, Partner SD'd out: 15~% ??????

I think I know what the mistake is, here. I'll double-double check it next chance.

Fsmash at 0%, Partner 1SD: 10~%
Fsmash at 0%, Partner 2SD: 10~%
Fsmash at 0%, Partner SD'd out: 10~%

Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall: 14~%
Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall, 1KO: 15%
Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall, 2KO: 11%
Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall, 1SD, 2KO: 22~%

Fsmash at 0%, 1PKO: 10%
Fsmash at 0%, 2PKOs: 10~%
Fsmash at 0%, 3PKOs: 10~%
Fsmash at 0%, 1SD, 3PKOs: 10~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2SD, 3PKOs: 12~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2SD, 1TK, 3PKOS: 15~%

Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall, 1PFall: 15%
Fsmash at 0%, 2Falls, 1PFall: 21~%
Fsmash at 0%, 1Fall, 1PFall, 2KOs: 11%

Fsmash at 0%, 2Falls, 2KO, 1TK: 23%
Fsmash at 0%, 1TK: 10%
Fsmash at 0%, 2TK: 10%
Fsmash at 0%, 1PK: 14~%
Fsmash at 0%, 2PK: 21~%


Situation 1: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once: at 0% Fsmash deals 12~%
Situation 2: 2P killss 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%
Situation 2: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P, 2P KOs 3P, 2P kills 4P, 4P KOs 2P, 4P kills L: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%

So far, it seems that long story short, you're fine no matter what you do, just don't kill your teammate on accident. More data after it arrives. And uh... i'll sort like data together another time so it won't be as confusing. It'll get guide'd soon as its done.

 

[ark-angel]

Nice stuff milln, but it was kinda worthless to post a 0% cause we already know that. You should have waited untill you had the higher damage stuff. Good idea though but, my thoughts are that it will be the same in single brawl becuse, it is the same game and all right? Do any othere peoples damge increase when playing in teams? SO, my opion is that this guide was pointless. (sorry for souning harsh ) But it will be VERY interesting if you make a discovery.

 

[|RK|]

Um, no, because Aura Modifiers work differently in teams, especially the stock ones.

 

[tedward2000]

But we dont know the aura modifiers at 0% in teams. Thats the thing.
nor do we know that at 50%, 80% and 130%.

We do know some of the numbers, but not nearly enough to shake a stick at.

And this is just F-smash. All other moves that get aura buffed at the same %'s. More so in teams.

In 1v1 you have two factors to the aura booster, you and your opponent.
In teams (2v2) you have Four factors to the aura booster; you, your team mate, your opponent and his teammate.

Thats a lot of factors! and the amount of possibilites that effect the aura is in the hundreds!
-t2

 

[ark-angel]

Oh, I have been shamed. I am sorry Milln i was blind to the true facts. Oh well i hope your reasearch yeilds alot becuse if it is more bonus........hehehehe

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Yeah what we need now is some number crunching and tests at higher percentages to figure out the aura modifier at each of these settings. Good start.

 

[Timbers]

Since I'm pretty sure (or at least, don't recall) no one did any actual testing on how Lucario's modifiers work in teams

I did ._.

I made some really long and gay post about it but the thread died promptly afterwards.

It wasn't as number oriented as yours though. Most of my post was giving examples rather than exact percentage decrease/increase.

It's hella crazy stuff though huh?

 

[Ilucamy]

What's 19-23 mean?

So from the data you have now, is it true that we can conclude the following?
-0% f-smash maxes out at 21 (or 23 if that's what 19-23 means)
-Aura is affected score as well as stocks taken.
-Aura is calculated by the individual placing of all 4 players rather than the teams as a whole

Not sure, but that made sense to me.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I think perhaps when your loses is final stock the aura modifier resets itself as if it was just you. This would explain the decrease from partner 2SD (21%) and partner out of the round (15%).

Logically, it makes sense logically.

 

[Timbers]

Aura mod does not get reset.

really all anyone needs to know is if you are a Lucario, your performance is heavily dependent on your partner's own performance. You want a partner that can tank lives and get his own share of kills. Luc really can't carry people nearly as well as other characters.

 

[Aurasmash14]

your right milln. it does get confusing.

 

[Kitamerby]

But we dont know the aura modifiers at 0% in teams. Thats the thing.
nor do we know that at 50%, 80% and 130%.

We do know some of the numbers, but not nearly enough to shake a stick at.

And this is just F-smash. There's many other moves that get aura booted by different %'s. More so in teams.

In 1v1 you have two factors to the aura booster, you and your opponent.
In teams (2v2) you have Four factors to the aura booster; you, your team mate, your opponent and his teammate.

Thats a lot of factors! and the amount of possibilites that effect the aura is in the hundreds!
-t2

IIRC, all moves have the same aura modifier. Some guy made a huge number crunch some time ago about it.

 

[Trela]

LOL I was thinking of doing this. Looks....tough.

NVM!

 

[tedward2000]

IIRC, all moves have the same aura modifier. Some guy made a huge number crunch some time ago about it.

Actually I remember that. Alls been fixed.
-t2

 

[Milln]

Aura mod does not get reset.

really all anyone needs to know is if you are a Lucario, your performance is heavily dependent on your partner's own performance. You want a partner that can tank lives and get his own share of kills. Luc really can't carry people nearly as well as other characters.

Yeah, but if your partner gets the KOs, you still have what seems to be a debuff. It's BS and confusing and the only explanation I can achieve is hard data. =\

Someone get Rebonack over here. He did the singles math.

What's 19-23 mean?

Data range. I got Fsmash to do 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23% damage from a fresh one under the same circumstances. I got fed up and just did approximate. XD I even got it to do 25% sometimes, as if it crit or some crap. XD

January 2009, less than 15yrs

Ted already set you straight.

 

[Milln]

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Okay so my inactive controller has really frayed wires. It was given to me a long time ago aaaaaaand it finally completely died and is spewing grey electrical smoke/smell and is nasty hot and stuff. I no longer have enough controllers to perform this test until I borrow one from another smasher, which will be after my next tournament, this Saturday. Hiatus until then.

 

[tedward2000]

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Okay so my inactive controller has really frayed wires. It was given to me a long time ago aaaaaaand it finally completely died and is spewing grey electrical smoke/smell and is nasty hot and stuff. I no longer have enough controllers to perform this test until I borrow one from another smasher, which will be after my next tournament, this Saturday. Hiatus until then.

Im sure I bought you a controller for Christmas Milln.
-t2

 

[Milln]

Im sure I bought you a controller for Christmas Milln.
-t2

Teams needs four controllers, Ted.

 

[tedward2000]

Teams needs four controllers, Ted.

oh, touche. Use a wii mote as one of them. Unless thats being used.
Then pull a MacGyver, and make one out of string, a key board, duck tape and a potato.
-t2

 

[Milln]

oh, touche. Use a wii mote as one of them. Unless thats being used.
Then pull a MacGyver, and make one out of string, a key board, duck tape and a potato.
-t2

I don't have a keyboard, I'll have to use a box fan, a stuffed animal, and a couple memory cards.

Duct* tape

I'll get around to it.

 

[Timbers]

Yeah, but if your partner gets the KOs, you still have what seems to be a debuff. It's BS and confusing and the only explanation I can achieve is hard data. =\

I didn't read your number crunches but was it that the partner got the kill or is it Luc's own situation in contrast to other stocks and K/D? When I tested it I felt it was safe to assume that teams was treated the same as FFA.

 

[Milln]

Fsmash at 0%, 1PKO: 10%
Fsmash at 0%, 3PKOs: 10%
Fsmash at 0%, 1SD, 3PKOs: 11~%

Is the only bit I tested so far involving KOs achieved by partner.

Note that 11% is the amount that fsmash deals by the control. It appears that Lucario works in mysterious ways and gets a debuff (stemming from being above the enemy team in points, possibly), but goes back to normal when he loses a stock.

 

[Timbers]

So you're assuming that Lucario has 3 stocks, partner has 3 stocks, an opponent has 3 stocks, and the other opponent has 2 stocks. And the 2 stock opponent was killed by opponent? That's simply because Lucario has a 1stock advantage right now over the 2 stock opponent.

I'm unsure of the 3PKOs though. Can you tell me specifically what you did? How many stocks you took off of each opponent?

 

[Milln]

So you're assuming that Lucario has 3 stocks, partner has 3 stocks, an opponent has 3 stocks, and the other opponent has 2 stocks. And the 2 stock opponent was killed by opponent? That's simply because Lucario has a 1stock advantage right now over the 2 stock opponent.

I'm unsure of the 3PKOs though. Can you tell me specifically what you did? How many stocks you took off of each opponent?

Just... Fully charged a smash and knocked the opponent off the edge of Smashville at 0%. I don't remember whether I discriminated it to one opponent. Pretty sure, I did, but now I don't remember. I'll retest that part for splits between opponent stocks when I get a new controller.

 

[Aurasmash14]

hows it going with the makeshift controller?(just asking)

 

[Milln]

Updated. Got a controller.

Someone tell me what 0% modifiers I could possibly be missing. (Luca KO's I know, but anything else?)

 

[Timbers]

You're missing SD for Lucario. You only have SD on other characters.

 

[Milln]

Nuh. i've got that. "# SD" with no words next to it to indicate otherwise is Lucario SD-ing.

 

[Timbers]

Oh ok, I was just looking at the legend

~ = Approximate, give or take 2%
TK = Team Kill, You killed your teammate
PK = Partner Kill, Your Partner killed you
SD = Self Destruct, no one hit them to cause their death
Fall = You were killed by the other team
PFall = Your partner was killed by the other team
KO = You were responsible for the death of an enemy team member because you're too beast.
PKO = Your partner felt you didn't need to dirty your paws.

because numbers hurt my brain

 

[Milln]

Updated.

"Situation 1: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once: at 0% Fsmash deals 12~%
Situation 2: 2P killss 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%
Situation 2: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P, 2P KOs 3P, 2P kills 4P, 4P KOs 2P, 4P kills L: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%"

The data collected suggests that Lucario in teams functions similar to just singles. It's like... He goes by his team's standing against the leaders PLUS his standing against the leader while his teammate is alive, and then when his teammate is KO'd, it's just Lucario's standing against the leader. However, in the situation described above, Lucario's POINTS are 0 while 4P's is 3, and fsmash still deals debuffed damage. It's extremely confusing when I don't know what I need to look for within a myriad of variables. I'll continue to research 0%s, but that'll prolly be as far as I go. We can use the regular modifer tables from there, most likely, for when damage is attained.

So far it's looking like:

Fsmash will deal a maximum of 25% damage under conditions that suggest him doing poorly as an individual AND as a team.
Fsmash will deal a minimum of 8% damage under conditions that don't have an explanation. >,>

For reference, that's about what the modifiers are in singles with stock (dis)advantages when doubled. (Luc fsmash never goes below 10% and never goes about 17-ish at 0%, unless i'm forgetting something)

Which means that Aura Sphere, when full buffed at 0% eals 27~% base damage at full charge. Coincedentally, when you reach the Aura modifier cap, your Aura Sphere becomes as large as Bowser, deals 35%, and kills Sonic at 50. Nevermind, it does it in singles, too. Still, that's sexy. We NEED to tap into this.

 

[Milln]

Apparently someone on the allisbrawl forums has a huge tl;dr filled with confusing and seemingly arbitrary arithmetic. Once I get my controller back from PLAY2 (soon), i'll do a field test and check it against his/her/its work, then take the credit.

 

[D. Disciple]

Updated.

"Situation 1: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once: at 0% Fsmash deals 12~%
Situation 2: 2P killss 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%
Situation 2: 2P kills 3P, 4P kills 2P twice and L once, L kills 3P and 4P, 2P KOs 3P, 2P kills 4P, 4P KOs 2P, 4P kills L: at 0% Fsmash deals 10%"

The data collected suggests that Lucario in teams functions similar to just singles. It's like... He goes by his team's standing against the leaders PLUS his standing against the leader while his teammate is alive, and then when his teammate is KO'd, it's just Lucario's standing against the leader. However, in the situation described above, Lucario's POINTS are 0 while 4P's is 3, and fsmash still deals debuffed damage. It's extremely confusing when I don't know what I need to look for within a myriad of variables. I'll continue to research 0%s, but that'll prolly be as far as I go. We can use the regular modifer tables from there, most likely, for when damage is attained.

So far it's looking like:

Fsmash will deal a maximum of 25% damage under conditions that suggest him doing poorly as an individual AND as a team.
Fsmash will deal a minimum of 8% damage under conditions that don't have an explanation. >,>

For reference, that's about what the modifiers are in singles with stock (dis)advantages when doubled. (Luc fsmash never goes below 10% and never goes about 17-ish at 0%, unless i'm forgetting something)

Which means that Aura Sphere, when full buffed at 0% eals 27~% base damage at full charge. Coincedentally, when you reach the Aura modifier cap, your Aura Sphere becomes as large as Bowser, deals 35%, and kills Sonic at 50. Nevermind, it does it in singles, too. Still, that's sexy. We NEED to tap into this.

Hmmm. As I read your scenarios over and over. I a slight theory, that seems to make this project a little more simple for you to check, but a whole lot more in depth as well.

Lucario doesn't go by his team's standing at all. I'm thinking he's only going by his standing against the opponent with the most stock.

Scenario 2.a.
Lucario (3 Stocks) No boost in aura yet.
2P ( 3 Stocks)
vs
3P (3 Stocks)
4P (3 Stocks)

2P kills 3P

Lucario (3stocks)
2P (3 Stocks)
vs
3P (2 Stocks)
4P (3 Stocks)

Lucario is still normal because player 4 has not died yet.

4P Kills 2P twice and Lucario once

Current Stock
Lucario - 2
2P - 1
vs
3P - 2
4P - 3

Lucario gets an aura boost.



Lucario kills player 3 and 4

Current Stock
Lucario - 2
2p - 1
vs
3P - 1
4P - 2

Lucario's aura debuffs, since his stock count is equal with player 4's stock count.

Another theory I have, that his aura buff might change by the total number of his stock, him and his partner have together vs their opponents stock.

Cause if you look at both of Situation 2. The total number of stock count has been even throughout the entire match.

2.a 3-3 = 0
2.b 1-1 = 0

While is situation 1 player 4 has one more stock than Lucario and the stock count is 3-4. Thus giving Lucario a slight aura boost.

Just a thought, if I had a wii and controllers. I would gladly help out with this as much as I can, cause I really do find it interesting and have been pondering this throughout my tournament and friendly matches. If Lucario bases off just himself for the aura boost in teams, by total stock count, or what you suggested Milln.

 

[Timbers]

tl;dr lucario can't carry his partner

 

[D. Disciple]

ty Timbers X3