Fair Chains - Down or Up Throw?

[Mattsy]

(Sorry if this has already been made/addressed in anoher thread)

Many Lucarios find dthrow to be their favourite to starting fair chains and various other sequences. The Lucario guide presents dthrow as the main catalyst for such moves, and upthrow a an afterthought...

I've always used upthrow. I really can't understand why, apart from the three or four percent more damage, dthrow is preferred. Let's have a lookat them both.

Down Thow - Does more damage, knockback increases with Lucario's and Opponent's percentage. Allows opponent to DI out of it in various ways; normally requires a double jump for the first fair.

Up Throw - Does less damage than dthrow, but allows a few upthrows in quick succession due to low knockback regardless of percent. Allows for the first fair to be short hopped and hard to DI out of; looks totally ****ing awesome.

Obviously a biased comparison, so look at them both yourself. Enlighten me if I'm wrong, maybe (hopefully) I'm overlooking something I could have done to let me rack up a better chain.

~Muttsy~

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Dthrow is unaffected by Lucci's percentage. Doing 10% when you have no aura boost is pretty appealing, and it still gets them up in the air where you want them. Overall, I guess you could say it's the safer bet.

And now, here's Sam to give the rebuttal for Uthrow.

 

[Mattsy]

Dthrow is unaffected by Lucci's percentage.

Actually, it is affected. >_>

EDIT - I'm a *******. I saw D and I thought U xD

To be honest, Upthrow isn't affected badly by Lucario's percentage NOR your opponents percentage. Only slightly by both.

The amount of time I've seen people (and myself) dthrow and watch them simply jump away from harm (almost always possible to do, even at low percents) is too great. Even if you manage to connect with them, you'll still have wasted about three grabs fairing AIR (forward airing air? xD) Uthrow is always gonna put them in generally the same place--right in fairing range.

 

[G-Beast]

dthrow is halfly unreliable... if you get the timing for the small ending lag down and/or they dont DI it well, it can work into fair chains.. uthrow can only do it at higher aura %

 

[Mattsy]

I find that uthrow chains normally have to start as a short hop--one on the first jump, two or three on the second.

 

[Timbers]

uthrow does same knockback as dthrow as soon as you hit like, 40%? While still sacrificing the 6% base damage? Can't remember.

Anyways, too many characters have better aerials move to counter Lucario's fair. It's not something you can use very often, especially considering how little hitstun there is in brawl. Your opponent will be able to move freely even before you're able to leave the ground.

 

[Greenpoe]

This is how I use Lucario's throws...
U-throw: Good for the occasional u-throw to u-smash, but not much else IMO.
B-throw: B-throw to Aura-Sphere works sometimes (depends on their percentage).
F-throw: Good for KO'ing, low damage.
D-throw: Best damage, but B-throw is better unless you're going to save B-throw for a KO/edgegaurd attempt

 

[phi1ny3]

I frankly like dthrow at low %'s, since the DI is usually not too crazy to start fairing, and the 10% is pretty nice. At mid/high percents, I use uthrow, since DI is not as strong, the throw gets a little more percent damage, and sets up for fair stuff, or for killing with uair. bthrow is good with AS, or a pseudo tech chase (you run up with shield and see what they do if they plummet, if they don't, take to the air!). For fthrow, good for killing.

 

[Flowbeat]

but low percent up throw chains are fun. I think up throw is the better chance until higher percents, maybe 60ish?

 

[phi1ny3]

Unless they do nair out, I usually don't have a problem with dthrow to fair chase, but if they start using jump and such, I'll use uthrow occasionally. I usually don't use uthrow as a chain at low percents, because utilt does the same thing essentially.

 

[hichez50]

up throw can chaingrab sure fast fallers about 3-4 times. Also if you opponent is way to aggressive they might go into the upthorow again. But always use d throw its safer.

 

[Flowbeat]

you just gotta get quick to react to fast airels

 

[Samuelson]

And now, here's Sam to give the rebuttal for Uthrow.

First off let me start by saying that both throws suck. Maybe suck is kind of harsh but neither throws are really that great honestly. Uthrow is slightly better IMO because against fast falling or huge characters you can almost always get at least one utilt to follow that. If Lucario is at 0% then Uthrow>Utilt does 8% which is still less then Dthrow but sometimes you can get more then one Utilt in or if your opponent doesn't know any better then you can grab them again. Uthrow>Utilt>Utilt does 12% and it is not uncommon for this 'combo' to happen. Uthrow>Utilt>Bthrow is something that i love doing...it tends to work a lot against fat people and does 18% plus whatever else you can follow up with. My favorite thing to do is Uthrow>Utilt>Bthrow>AS which does about 30%...it can be escaped but people don't escape it for some reason lol.

Dthrow is amazing in teams. It's very telegraphed and gives your partner plenty of time to follow up for a true combo.

Bthrow always does 10% like Dthrow which is why i prefer Bthrow to Dthrow almost always in singles. The only time i'll use Dthrow is if they're by the edge at high percents where a Fthrow wont kill them but a Dthrow>Bair will. Even in that situation i would probably still use Uthrow and go for a Uthrow>Uair kill or something.


I don't use either throws that much because they're not that great but Uthrow allows for more follow ups which is why i like it more then Dthrow.

Do whatever you like though. I'm probably wrong anyways.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I honestly use uthrow more, especially at low percentages and on heavier characters. In my experiences, it even leads into uptilts pretty often

 

[Timbers]

Uthrow is good on characters that can't retaliate very well, which gives a good use to uthrow's close encounter options. Characters like DDD, ROB, Snake, DK, etc., but the characters that can deal with this (MK, GaW, Wario, Marth, Diddy, etc) are heavily outweighed by the ones who can't. Dthrow is good at low percents, and it can pressure an opponent closer to the ledge while still adding that good 10% damage. Alternatively if Luc is higher in the percents then I'll use fthrow, as the increased knockback is much more effective in this situation and it's cooldown is much faster. I'll use bthrow for the same purpose if I'm closer to the ledge behind me, as it pressures them to the ledge more easily, setting up for fsmash/ftilt traps, aurasphere, or another grab.

 

[Saberdude27]

have you guys ever killed people with b-throw (excluding sudden death) i have, but its gotta be close to an edge...

 

[Samuelson]

Bthrow is not a reliable kill move but it does kill if your opponent has piss poor DI.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Numerous times. It's decent as a clutch killer when you're at 0%.

 

[Delta_0]

Personally, I use the A, A, >B, FAir, then either DAir or FAir again to start off a match sometimes. Doesn't really work when Luke's past 45-50%, so it's a good 0% combo for him. Once he reaches 50-60%, I start using the Down throw.

 

[Mattsy]

Wouldn't dthrow be better at earlier percents? If you're dairing him after a dthrow at that percent he's no DIing properly.

Also, at earlier percents do FP chains--you can get to 20-30% with light characters and the heavier ones higher still.

 

[phi1ny3]

With FP chains, you have to watch out for using it more than 2 times, it can be wiggled out of, even with heavier characters (and considering that Bowser gets the advantage generally off of the release, all the more reason to beware), so you'll have to mix it up with fair, ftilt, etc. before regrabbing with FP, otherwise, they get out with enough wiggling.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

If I get a FP off at low %s, I almost always follow it up with a regular grab instead of another FP. It's more reliable, and against most characters you're looking at about the same damage as you'd have gotten from continuing the CG anyways.

 

[Mattsy]

Would A-FP-A-FP work? (Or A-A, but A-FP is just more reliable)

I didn't know Bowser could wiggle out so early though, especially at low percentages. Thanks for letting me know before I fall victim to it :>

 

[G-Beast]

just do A-FP/A-FP how many times you can for teh character and end with fair-nair/aura sphere

 

[Melomaniacal]

What about following a FP or two up with a shfair>nair>jab/FP/whatever? It works pretty well for me, even if I can't follow up the nair.

 

[phi1ny3]

Would A-FP-A-FP work? (Or A-A, but A-FP is just more reliable)

I didn't know Bowser could wiggle out so early though, especially at low percentages. Thanks for letting me know before I fall victim to it :>

Every character can wiggle out.

 

[Delta_0]

Wouldn't dthrow be better at earlier percents? If you're dairing him after a dthrow at that percent he's no DIing properly.

Also, at earlier percents do FP chains--you can get to 20-30% with light characters and the heavier ones higher still.

I meant after the FAir, not after the Down-Throw.