Falco and his Shine Just Got Alot Better!!!

[Notra]

yeah so i made a post about falco having 100% trip on shine at the tip i was wrong. it differs from character to character, and there r 2 100% areas for shine trip(from what ive found so far)

ppl wanted me to test it more so i did on high tiers, heaviest char, and lightest. these r my results. ( o percents where trip stops, o percents where the shine starts to shoot the character foward (splatt) to a possible lazer lock(only worked so far on d3-whats new?lol-) (-----> says sweet spot for shine on char)

MK 94% 220%
----->tip of shine range, so close ur pushing them


Snake 117% 255%
----->right before end of shine, so close ur pushing pushing them

D3 115% 244%
----->2 falco footlengths before end of shine(alittle before snakes sweetspot), 3/4 of a falco foot length away


Falco 98% 210%
----->right before end of shine, so close ur pushing pushing them


G&W 92% 201%
----->right before end of shine, so close ur pushing pushing them


Marth 95% 215%
----->right before end of shine, so close ur pushing pushing them


Jiggs 85% 192%
----->tip of shine range, so close ur pushing him them shine



AND HERE'S THE AMAZING PART U CAN JAB TO AUTO-SHINE TRIP. just jab at the lengths i posted as close up sweet spot. and it works up to the green percentages posted up top. F*UCK YEAH!

jab>shine(trip) makes it even easier for kill moves.

and oh yeah this doesnt work on falco he flinches oddly from jab, so it doesnt work.

 

[Notra]

o percents where the shine starts to shoot the character foward (splatt) to a possible lazer lock

this o is supposed to be a red o

 

[Gr1mmy]

Aren't these percentages a bit too high to be practical >_>

 

[Notra]

yes the red ones r, but i tested them and wasted my time, so d*mnit im posting them

 

[pure_awesome]

Are your results implying that if I go up to Snake at say, 4% and Shine him when I'm "So close I'm pushing him" that it will 100% guaranteed trip?

I just want to make sure I'm reading your format correctly before coming to any conclusions.

 

[Corrupted]

But shine lags too hard to be followed up by a boost smash right?

 

[Notra]

Are your results implying that if I go up to Snake at say, 4% and Shine him when I'm "So close I'm pushing him" that it will 100% guaranteed trip?

I just want to make sure I'm reading your format correctly before coming to any conclusions.

yeah, the ranges r slightly different from char to char but it still works none the less, thats tested it for a while and worked consistently.

IF SOMEONE COULD HELP ME TEST OTHER CHARS TOO IT'D BE NICE

 

[Hawks go Caw]

There's an edit button.

So here's what I found:

I did the jab > shine on a level 3 DDD and it tripped like 90% of the time.

Then I tested on a level 9 DDD, it it trips like 30% of the time.

 

[Notra]

There's an edit button.

So here's what I found:

I did the jab > shine on a level 3 DDD and it tripped like 90% of the time.

Then I tested on a level 9 DDD, it it trips like 30% of the time.

i have yet to test it w/ DI and such yet, but dedede has a huge hitbox, so his shine trip is a little different. be sure to notice that when u try.

 

[Notra]

But shine lags too hard to be followed up by a boost smash right?

falcos chase, its what we do. if they trip we r following. and getting that upsmash(or whatever)

 

[pure_awesome]

yeah, the ranges r slightly different from char to char but it still works none the less, thats tested it for a while and worked consistently.:

Ah.


Then I can guarantee that this is wrong.

Shining Snake when you're that close does not guarantee a trip, ever. I invite anyone who cares enough to go into training and set Snake to 4% and try it themselves.

In fact, I think I had Snake not trip more than he did trip.

 

[Notra]

Ah.


Then I can guarantee that this is wrong.

Shining Snake when you're that close does not guarantee a trip, ever. I invite anyone who cares enough to go into training and set Snake to 4% and try it themselves.

In fact, I think I had Snake not trip more than he did trip.

ill go test some more if u want, it may not be 100% if what u say is true, but its def high cause i dont think i can get lucky trips 6 7 time in a row.

 

[Notra]

i just retested it on snake at 4%. i walked so i was pushing him back and shined him he tripped 9 out of 10 times. Either im really lucky or this has a near 100% chance of working.

 

[pure_awesome]

I got 16/20, which goes with your findings that it's a fairly high trip chance. However, I got 17/20 at the middle of the Shine and 16/20 at absolute tipper, leading me to believe that the part of the Shine that hits is irrelevant.

Also, my understanding of game mechanics would mean that which part of the Shine hits your opponent is irrelevant. Many characters have moves like this which can cause tripping because of the way they slide the opponent across the ground. Since all parts of the Shine share a single hitbox, it wouldn't make any sense for it to be varied at arbitrary spots depending on the character.

If you want to run with this I suggest looking into percents, which is lengthy and boring to test. If certain percents are near-guaranteed, it could find some use in play thanks to Falco's terrible time killing.


My two cents.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

It's definitely not 100%. The shine doesn't have a guaranteed trip no matter what the circumstance. It does seem like there are times where it's a higher percentage than others though, but I think with more thorough testing, we'll see that it eventually ends up being that the shine trips at around 50-60% of the time in any situation.

Shine is still really laggy and you can't follow up from it. You can't really chase with it since the opponent gets up before you recover.

 

[Notra]

I got 16/20, which goes with your findings that it's a fairly high trip chance. However, I got 17/20 at the middle of the Shine and 16/20 at absolute tipper, leading me to believe that the part of the Shine that hits is irrelevant.

Also, my understanding of game mechanics would mean that which part of the Shine hits your opponent is irrelevant. Many characters have moves like this which can cause tripping because of the way they slide the opponent across the ground. Since all parts of the Shine share a single hitbox, it wouldn't make any sense for it to be varied at arbitrary spots depending on the character.

If you want to run with this I suggest looking into percents, which is lengthy and boring to test. If certain percents are near-guaranteed, it could find some use in play thanks to Falco's terrible time killing.


My two cents.

im unsure as to why the whole shine would have the same amount of tripping throughout, but i guess ill have to test more. i think the trip percent is more like what pureawesome said around 80% however i do believe certain lengths of the relfector have much higher chances. and even possibly the direction the oppoent is moving/facing. ANY ONE WANNA HELP ME TEST?

 

[Notra]

i just retested it for again, and the result seem to always be close or similar to what awesome said. i think there r sweet spots in the reflector. and i would say that walking into then jab>shine is around 80%, and and walking into them/ near tip(depending on char) is 75%. ill take those percentages for jab>shine. since it will most likely hit them anyway, if they dont trip im not gonna be punished.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Bonk!

We need a dispenser over here!

 

[mosesrko24]

you could follow up with phantasm to send them into the air at the very least

 

[Typ_Ex]

unless you shine in the air. there is lag time getting the reflector back and than falco pulling back after it comes back to him. by that time, your opponent will already get up from the trip animation. unless this thread is just about getting about an extra 10% on somebody.

 

[Notra]

unless you shine in the air. there is lag time getting the reflector back and than falco pulling back after it comes back to him. by that time, your opponent will already get up from the trip animation. unless this thread is just about getting about an extra 10% on somebody.

have u even tried this? if someone trips then u can chase them, there isnt that much lag. i wouldnt have mentioned this if it wasnt possible. i mean i dont test this stuff for nothing.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Even if you trip with the tip of the reflector (the last possible moment to actually trip) they still have time to get up and do anything before you recover.

 

[Typ_Ex]

i wouldn't be talking about it if i didnt try it. i dont know who/what you're testing it on. but human players will get up before the reflector comes back to you.

 

[Notra]

Not rly. I've gotten it to work on friendlies at aib

 

[Teran]

This seems way too specific and the reward factor too low for me to bother incorporating this into my game. Considering the lag on the shine, following up on a trip doesn't seem that practical anyway.

Oh well, it's still rather nice and I'll keep the MK, Snake and D3 percents in my mind, but that's about as far as I'm gonna take this.

Needs more *Pew Pew*

 

[BleachigoZX]

This seems way too specific and the reward factor too low for me to bother incorporating this into my game. Considering the lag on the shine, following up on a trip doesn't seem that practical anyway.

Oh well, it's still rather nice and I'll keep the MK, Snake and D3 percents in my mind, but that's about as far as I'm gonna take this.

Needs more *Pew Pew*

You can attempt to cross up with the IAP, just letting you know.

It's not safe but just one more thing to catch someone off guard with.
Also Falco needs to punish get-up attacks with Phantasm, I keep misspacing the invincible third of it...

 

[Notra]

hmm I don't seem to have a prob getting a chase in even with the lag of shine. But I guess It differs to how u play.( if it slows an approach, I like it) And r u crazy? 80% trip rate? I'll take my chances the only easy kill move we have on chars such as meta is jab to dtilt which kills around 150%. trip for me at 94 equals an up smash is that strong enough for a kill? ( percentages said earlier r w/ SDI)

Sry if I have uncorrected mistakes I'm on my phone till 5 posting on weekdays.....

 

[Typ_Ex]

so you're testing primarily consists of online people, since you mentioned aib?

 

[J4pu]

aib makes me think wifi, which makes me think not reliable for testing.

 

[Fluke]

Haha, it's like you just raised me back up from the dead.

At last there is more progress? =P

 

[Typ_Ex]

that is exactly what i think.

 

[Notra]

honestly I see no problem with wifi. There is only lag until ur mind naturally adjusts to the delay. Then I don't even see the difference. But ur saying it like reflexes change that much online. Once adjusted to it. Online is offline.

 

[Emperor Time]

Nope.....They're different. Even an online match with a blue connection is noticeably slower than offline, and there's all kinds of lag. There's button lag , that frame-by-frame **** and that spasmodic lag that only seems to affect me when I laser >_>. There's no full adjusting to online, even when you have an alright feel on the match. It's not consistent enough.
And yes, I think reflexes are affected online. Especially when you're trying to DI and stuff like that.

SymphonicSage12: lol but if your reflexes adjust to online lag, then you'll do bad offline.
SymphonicSage12: lol loophole win

>_>

 

[Notra]

Nope.....They're different. Even an online match with a blue connection is noticeably slower than offline, and there's all kinds of lag. There's button lag , that frame-by-frame **** and that spasmodic lag that only seems to affect me when I laser >_>. There's no full adjusting to online, even when you have an alright feel on the match. It's not consistent enough.
And yes, I think reflexes are affected online. Especially when you're trying to DI and stuff like that.

SymphonicSage12: lol but if your reflexes adjust to online lag, then you'll do bad offline.
SymphonicSage12: lol loophole win

>_>

hmm i guess this is a thing that differs more from person to person. my mind will see the exact time of lag after awhile and eventually adjust. i give credit to gamebattles terrible connections forcing me to be able to do this.