Falco edge trap

[p8nted]

So I've never seen anyone do this in tournament and I've never seen it in the falco boards but since it was mentioned briefly in the bbr falco discussion I thought I'd elaborate a little. The basic idea is simple and it works a lot like DDD's dsmash edge trap.

To start, chaingrab your foe to the edge of the stage and spike them INTO the stage NOT off the edge. Try to get them to flop as close to the edge as possible without sending them over. Then charge a forward smash. If done properly, you wil be out of range of their get-up attack but close enough that the fsmash will hit them.

If they roll behind they get hit, if they get-up attack they get hit, the stage prevents them from rolling away so they get hit, and if they stand up they get hit. The chaingrab -> spike -> fsmash leaves them around 70%.

This is useful against characters like MK who have such good recoveries that spiking them off the stage is pointless. If they start to catch on they will sdi off the stage but even if they do, it's still possible to space your spike just right to keep them on the stage. =^_^=

*edit* updated diagram

 

[YUNq PHR3$H]

I Remember Atomsk's DDD Catching Me With That Move.
They Call It The ''Buuman Trap''
But I Will Be Looking Forward 2 Using This Alot.

 

[p8nted]

Yeah, it's something that other characters have been doing for a long time so it never made sense to me why Falco's don't do it too.

 

[Micklem]

Nice picture.

Seriously.

I don't have smash with me to check, but aren't there invincibility frames on the get-up attack? If so it could be timed to hit falco when he attacks with fsmash. It's not a problem for D3 cos he doesn't lean forwards during the attack. Is it a problem for falco?

 

[p8nted]

Falco's fsmash has enough range that you can still hit them while standing out of reach of their get-up attack.

 

[Micklem]

I mean after your attack. If you fsmash during their get-up atk, surely they end up hitting you on the head? I might be wrong.

 

[p8nted]

yeah if you time it badly then you will, of course, get hit by the get-up attack but the idea is to charge your fsmash until just the right time so that doesn't happen.

 

[Micklem]

I figured that, after a few times, it'd be the opponent timing the get-up atk well rather than you timing the fsmash badly (for instance, if you charge the fsmash too long waiting for them to do something, they will know exactly when you will have to release it and time their move accordingly). I hope thats not easy to do, I guess I'l just have to find out. I sense some mind-games coming...

Anyway, great idea p8nted, can't wait to start using it

 

[Judo777]

No actually hes right if ur opponent times their invincibilty right it wont work cause most getup attacks have invincibility but its still a great mix up.

 

[MulticolorShyGuy]

I do this a lot when I can't CG to the edge, and after 1 or 2 spaced Fsmashes I'll try and land closer to them, and charge an fsmash away, hoping they'll roll behind instead of getup attack or empty getup

 

[Coffee™]

Pretty sure you can just tech the dair and shield before Falco can land a Fsmash.

 

[p8nted]

I figured that, after a few times, it'd be the opponent timing the get-up atk well rather than you timing the fsmash badly (for instance, if you charge the fsmash too long waiting for them to do something, they will know exactly when you will have to release it and time their move accordingly). I hope thats not easy to do, I guess I'l just have to find out. I sense some mind-games coming...

Anyway, great idea p8nted, can't wait to start using it

It's true that they can just sit there and wait but you can also release the smash immediately while they're on the ground. That's the only part where prediction comes into play. Most of the time you do this they will immediately try to get up off the ground by either rolling behind or standing straight up (from my experience) and if they do, they get ***** by this.

The beauty of the move is that you'll only use it a maximum of 3 times per game and unless you're playing m2k, people will often not have time to get used to what you are doing. They get excited that they're on the stage and react predictably.

Pretty sure you can just tech the dair and shield before Falco can land a Fsmash.

If they tech (which I have literally never seen done), then grab instead of fsmash. Nitpicking...

No actually hes right if ur opponent times their invincibilty right it wont work cause most getup attacks have invincibility but its still a great mix up.

You're not attacking their actual get-up attack. You wait until just after the invicibility is done during the ending lag of the attack.

 

[Micklem]

It does come down to mind-games a bit, but at least you're the one in control (and with the highest chance of success).

If you didn't love mind games, you wouldn't be playing the game right?

p8nted do you have experience using it against any awesome players? It'd be interesting to know how well they react to it.

 

[Denzi]

We've known about this for a while. It basically works out the same way it does with D3's dthrow: Teching gets them out of it, and they can wait out the charge on the attack and roll through it+ punish. It's good to catch someone off guard but not something we should be expecting to land every time.

 

[p8nted]

It does come down to mind-games a bit, but at least you're the one in control (and with the highest chance of success).

If you didn't love mind games, you wouldn't be playing the game right?

p8nted do you have experience using it against any awesome players? It'd be interesting to know how well they react to it.

I play against t1mmy and t0mmy a lot and they fall for it maybe 70% of the time. It's worked against felix, Tuen, and lots of others. I played m2k a long while but never even got a chaingrab on him so I didn't get to try it out. =(

And yeah teching gets them out of it but I've literally never seen it done in a real match.

 

[Anxiety]

is it me or does the Falco charging the Fsmash in the picture look soo fierce!??

 

[swordsaint]

this thread is dumb

we do this all time but instead of fsmash we use gatling

l2notbenoob

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I always try to CG>Spike Metaknight's into the stage at the ledge, rather than off it, so I can read for tech chases. It's a lot better than spiking them off the stage, since you can't really do anything to him when he's recovering from below the stage after a CG spike.

F-smash or gattling are both good. F-smash is a bit easier to get reads with though, since you can charge it.

 

[swordsaint]

ease isn't the issue really

gatling does more afaik

that would make it better i would think. chain grab gatling has been like...a staple for years now lol.

 

[Buuman]

I Remember Atomsk's DDD Catching Me With That Move.
They Call It The ''Buuman Trap''
But I Will Be Looking Forward 2 Using This Alot.

Originated from yours truly when I placed well with Dedede, back when I used to play vBrawl.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Hark, it is Buuman, originator of the Buuman trap! ^_^

 

[kismet2]

I do this sometimes but I feel it's really character dependent because knocking certain characters(Pit, Mk, Zss) away resets spacing and gives up the control you had in the situation thus making it hard to pressure your opponent. It's still really good though XD

 

[erick gm14]

this works unless they SDI the dair, land behind u and roll away.. this has been done, go watch more vids.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I wish buuman didn't quit vbrawl right as I started playing competitively... You could've being a damage control to all the Snake mains running wild... oh well.

Also, I'm pretty sure that some characters can sdi it away so that they get sent at a more horizontal angle thus bounce off the ground and in the air rather then getting planted. And everyone can tech the spike, and I doubt a grab is guaranteed. I don't see why ppl don't tech it more honestly.

And this strat has being known since the discovery of chain grabbing. A better thread would be one devoted to falco's amazing edge guard game imo.

 

[exdia_16]

my same method for people i cant cg to spike i just end it the wait for the ROLL(they always do) hold a fsmash they roll into it every time i do it or dsmash or upsmash. if they attack i just shield of stop dodge then follow up.

 

[swordsaint]

I still say gatling probs gets you more damage.

 

[Denzi]

I still say gatling probs gets you more damage.

Yep. And it puts them in a better position for juggle traps (above you as opposed to offstage).

 

[swordsaint]

I suppose they're both handy though. Offstage would be useful against people with poor recoveries. It does set up for some bairs/spikes (if you're really **** lol) or reflectors (if you're marth)

 

[Trott]

I suppose they're both handy though. Offstage would be useful against people with poor recoveries. It does set up for some bairs/spikes (if you're really **** lol) or reflectors (if you're marth)

Does reflector mess up Marth's Up B recovery?

 

[AxelPurpleMissle]

So does this work 100% most of the time? If not then...why do it if they are going to tech the down air and roll away? Mind game? Shouldn't we need a chart for this or just no..

ps* I lold at the pix.

 

[Denzi]

Does reflector mess up Marth's Up B recovery?

Yes, mostly because it pushes him away while not giving him and upward distance. Because his recovery is mostly vertically oriented, it will give him a harder time getting back to the stage.

And no, this doesn't work all the time.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Time teh invincibility = no problem

 

[dainbramage]

If marth upB's through shine he's just gonna get fsmashed when he tries to land.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

No Marth would sweetspot the ledge on his way up, thus thoroughly avoids the shine's hitbox.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No Marth would sweetspot the ledge on his way up, thus thoroughly avoids the shine's hitbox.

We can do nothing against marth when he is recovering except use Dair, Bair or lasers from the stage. With Marth recovering from below the stage, UpB and Fair outprioritze everything we have and risk killing us. Never would we get the chance to shine a Marth unless he was trying to UpB past the ledge in the fear we would try to edgehog him.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

It's much better to let him grab the ledge (unless we have a clear shot at edgehogging him of course) and process to take away his ledge options, which can be egregiously lackluster.

 

[teluoborg]

I'm pretty sure that the up B isn't the part you should be trying to shine.

Also sorry for putting this thread back on topic but what do you guys think does more % :
-gatling
or
-charged Fsmash followed by FH/DJ laser salve where at least 2 shots will hit ?

 

[-LzR-]

That picture has the be the most informative and hilarious one ever.

 

[dainbramage]

No Marth would sweetspot the ledge on his way up, thus thoroughly avoids the shine's hitbox.

If he's recovering low edgehog and punish in landing lag. If he's recovering high, 2:05 in this is what I'm talking about.


@teluoborg, gatling would almost certainly do more. You'd need to hit with like 4 lasers to do as much with fsmash.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

If he's recovering low edgehog and punish in landing lag. If he's recovering high, 2:05 in this is what I'm talking about.


@teluoborg, gatling would almost certainly do more. You'd need to hit with like 4 lasers to do as much with fsmash.

Yes that is a perfectly legit way to use the reflector, not just against marth but many other characters too.