Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Shaya]

I haven't gone through Falco's data tbh.
I guess there wasn't anything I was expecting or looking for, although I suppose I'd like to see exactly how his sour spot in uair goes.

And I think the fastest grab is 7 frames in this rather than 6 in Brawl.
OTHERWISE, I rock on with jab OoS, all the time anyway.

 

[Zionaze]

am i the only one who thinks its ironic how falcos firebird doesnt go as far as foxs?

 

[Gamegenie222]

Falco's Frame data

BEGIN falco
**********
Jab1
Hits on frame: 2.0
Hitboxes end: 5.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 30
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 90.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

Jab2
Hits on frame: 3.0
Hitboxes end: 6.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 30
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 60.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

unknown substate 0x55
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 7.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 180.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 45

Dash Attack
Hits on frame: 8.0
Hitboxes end: 19.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 9.0
Extra Shield Damage: 1
Max Hitbox BKB: 70
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 720.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 65

F-tilt (normal)
Hits on frame: 6.0
Hitboxes end: 9.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 9.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

U-tilt
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 17.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 150
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 150.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 90

D-tilt
Hits on frame: 7.0
Hitboxes end: 10.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 600.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 75

F-smash release (normal)
Hits on frame: 17.0
Hitboxes end: 21.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 15.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 90
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 630.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

U-smash release
Hits on frame: 8.0
Hitboxes end: 20.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 98
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 360.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

D-smash release
Hits on frame: 7.0
Hitboxes end: 10.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 15.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 76
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 300.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 25

Nair
Hits on frame: 3.0
Hitboxes end: 25.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 130
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 160.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Fair
Hits on frame: 12.0
Hitboxes end: 37.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 145
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 220.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Bair
Hits on frame: 4.0
Hitboxes end: 12.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 13.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 130
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

Uair
Hits on frame: 10.0
Hitboxes end: 15.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 11.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 297.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 68

Dair
Hits on frame: 16.0
Hitboxes end: 31.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 13.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 80
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 130.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 285

Fair Landing
Hits on frame: 1.0
Hitboxes end: 2.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 160
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 150.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 45

Pummel
Hits on frame: 5.0
Hitboxes end: 6.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

F-throw
Hits on frame: 10.0
Hitboxes end: 12.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Extra Shield Damage: 1
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 40.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 55

B-throw
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 60
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 35

U-throw
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 100
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 94

D-throw
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 110
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
Max Hitbox Angle: 50





unknown substate 0x229
Hits on frame: 16.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 60
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 1020.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 40

unknown substate 0x243
Hits on frame: 20.0
Hitboxes end: 21.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 40
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 80.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 70

unknown substate 0x24b
Hits on frame: 1.0
Hitboxes end: 8.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 50
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 90.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

unknown substate 0x24c
Hits on frame: 0.0
Hitboxes end: 0.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 40
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 136.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 80

unknown substate 0x24d
Hits on frame: 1.0
Hitboxes end: 32.0
Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
Max Hitbox BKB: 45
Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 520.0
Max Hitbox Angle: 361

**********
END falco

 

[Ffamran]

am i the only one who thinks its ironic how falcos firebird doesnt go as far as foxs?

Fox ain't got mad hops like Falco. Fox gotta compensate, nahmean?

 

[Zionaze]

but wouldnt it be great if falco had the mad hops AND the boost? emirite

 

[Ffamran]

but wouldnt it be great if falco had the mad hops AND the boost? emirite

That would break Falco into Brawl Luigi levels... Sure, why not. Also, I think Falco's 3rd Custom Fire Bird, appropriately named Distant Fire Bird, has similar distance to Fox's Fire Fox. So, I guess Falco already has mad hops and mad recovery.

 

[Zionaze]

i completely forgot about distant firebird buts its duh best :D

 

[Jackson]

Can anybody inform me about the autocancels on Falco's aerials?

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Can anybody inform me about the autocancels on Falco's aerials?

Falco's b-air and is the only move that auto-cancels on landing. Up-air has a few frames, but it's very short not easy to punish. All others have too much lag to use them on stage unless you are sure to hit.
F-air can be a good approach but it is very risky.
Oh, almost forgot his n-air is really good, you can pretty much go right back up when you land.

 

[Shaya]

You're mixing up landing lag with auto cancelling.

You can sh rising uair auto cancel (maybe even fast fall), which is something I believe fox cannot do this game.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Oh, well yeah, same info applies sort of.
Thanks for setting that straight. N-air into dash attack is pretty easy and that leads to a b-air if they don't react.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

You're mixing up landing lag with auto cancelling.

You can sh rising uair auto cancel (maybe even fast fall), which is something I believe fox cannot do this game.

Fox can auto cancel his U-air in a short hop

But yea, falco's U-air and B-air auto cancel.

 

[Jackson]

Fox can auto cancel his U-air in a short hop

But yea, falco's U-air and B-air auto cancel.

Alright, cool. So if I just input Uair as soon as I short hop I should get the auto cancel (without fast falling)?

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Alright, cool. So if I just input Uair as soon as I short hop I should get the auto cancel (without fast falling)?

Yup, the timing is a bit tight.

 

[Float SSB]

For reference, Falcos nair is actually one of the fastest landing lag moves in the entire game at 9 frames.

 

[Ffamran]

For reference, Falcos nair is actually one of the fastest landing lag moves in the entire game at 9 frames.

He's a bird. Of course he's got good landing.

 

[Shaya]

Wait what? 9 frames on nair? Did that get buffed?

It was 15 before.

Just so you know you cannot get landing lag/ending frame animations from dantarion data right now.

 

[Thor]

For the life of me, I can't seem to shorten phantasm, and I haven't seen anybody say that shortening was removed.

Is shortening phantasm possible in Smash 4? If so, can someone describe the timing of it and/or post a video of someone shortening a phantasm? I even tried just mashing B a few times and still got full-length phantasm (I can do it with reasonable consistency in Melee and Brawl).

 

[Ffamran]

For the life of me, I can't seem to shorten phantasm, and I haven't seen anybody say that shortening was removed.

Is shortening phantasm possible in Smash 4? If so, can someone describe the timing of it and/or post a video of someone shortening a phantasm? I even tried just mashing B a few times and still got full-length phantasm (I can do it with reasonable consistency in Melee and Brawl).

Do you mean canceling it like in Melee and Brawl? I think that was removed in SSB4 for whatever reason. There are "short" Illusions and Phantasms, but they're customs.

 

[Thor]

Do you mean canceling it like in Melee and Brawl? I think that was removed in SSB4 for whatever reason. There are "short" Illusions and Phantasms, but they're customs.

Yes I do mean cancelling it. I always referred to it as a shorten, but I probably should call it a cancel since there is a variant of the cancel in Brawl that I think makes you technically go farther due to increased momentum after phantasm while losing barely any distance from the move itself.

So that's gone?

 

[Ffamran]

Yes I do mean cancelling it. I always referred to it as a shorten, but I probably should call it a cancel since there is a variant of the cancel in Brawl that I think makes you technically go farther due to increased momentum after phantasm while losing barely any distance from the move itself.

So that's gone?

Probably. I remember doing it in Brawl and it wasn't that strict of a timing. Anyway, I don't know why it was removed. Maybe because Illusion/Phantasm no longer leaves Fox/Falco in a helpless mode. Think of the mind games and other shenanigans you could pull of with that - a short hop, Falco Phantasm cancel spike would be ridiculous. So, I guess with the lost of helplessness, we also lose the ability to cancel the move as sort of a balance.

I'm not sure though, but since nobody's mentioned anything about cancelling Illusion/Phantasm, I'm going to say that it was removed in SSB4. Same thing with the whole bomb dropping for Link/Toon Link and a bunch of other stuff for characters except this wasn't a glitch, exploit, or whatever.

 

[Thor]

Probably. I remember doing it in Brawl and it wasn't that strict of a timing. Anyway, I don't know why it was removed. Maybe because Illusion/Phantasm no longer leaves Fox/Falco in a helpless mode. Think of the mind games and other shenanigans you could pull of with that - a short hop, Falco Phantasm cancel spike would be ridiculous. So, I guess with the lost of helplessness, we also lose the ability to cancel the move as sort of a balance.

I'm not sure though, but since nobody's mentioned anything about cancelling Illusion/Phantasm, I'm going to say that it was removed in SSB4. Same thing with the whole bomb dropping for Link/Toon Link and a bunch of other stuff for characters except this wasn't a glitch, exploit, or whatever.

To be honest, it since you can't charge off the ledge and kill yourself with it anymore, I can see why the need for a shorten would be gone in the eyes of their dev team.

I wish I could shorten for recovery mixups and such, but at least I can give myself a reason (true or not) for why it seems to be gone.

 

[Diamond DHD]

Alright, so I'm a Smash player who is usually used to playing wacky or weird characters, I'm thinking of picking up a more serious character and I'm considering Falco. I've heard absolutely awful things about Falco in this game but I liked how he plays in the previous games and generally like him as a character more than his canine counterpart. Should I bother trying to get gud with Falco or is he a sinking ship at this point? I'm willing to put in the practice, but I wanted to get some advice for people who actually play the character.

 

[Sol0ke]

He is NOT a sinking ship despite what others say. He just requires a different playstyle from previous iterations of Falco.

 

[Runawayfire]

I've found Upair to be incredibly spamable. It covers air dodges really well, and leads into uptilt on the ground. The hitbox size is unlike and of the space animal upairs that have been around before, as it has a fairly large arc.

Generally speaking I try to just get my opponents above me and keeping them there, covering landing options.

 

[Jtails]

Hello humble Falco board(ers)
So I've been making guides for every character in the game, and I've come across Falco! been having a bit of trouble using him effectively, and transitioning from Brawl Falco to Smash 4 Falco.

I made a video covering most of the basics, so I'd appreciate any sort of constructive criticism on things I might be missing, or things I could do better with him. Along with teaching others, it helps close my own knowledge gaps, which is nice. Thanks!

I've found Upair to be incredibly spamable. It covers air dodges really well, and leads into uptilt on the ground. The hitbox size is unlike and of the space animal upairs that have been around before, as it has a fairly large arc.

Generally speaking I try to just get my opponents above me and keeping them there, covering landing options.

I find characters like mario mashing Dair, or link nair and beating out my up air attempts. Would probably work well against Diddy, ROB or characters with slow and low priority Dair/Nairs

 

[Zionaze]

characters with moves that have higher priority than falcos f-air (which has an absurd priority) are better to just shield grab rather than confronting it head on.

 

[Funkermonster]

Has no one yet made a Falco video thread yet? Pretty much almost everyone else has one.. why not him?

 

[ArhyLis]

Has no one yet made a Falco video thread yet? Pretty much almost everyone else has one.. why not him?

I'm with you there. I would start one... but I don't know, I think I'm too lazy or uncomfortable to start it. Do you mean just matches of him? Cause I have a few to show. Video quality isn't the best though.

 

[Zionaze]

and the waiting game begins

 

[Ffamran]

Has no one yet made a Falco video thread yet? Pretty much almost everyone else has one.. why not him?

Falco's like nonexistent as of now. It's like people pretend he doesn't exist and Fox is the only fighter from Star Fox. I tried looking up tournaments with Falco and found only one guy who switched to Triple D after a fight.

Falco lacks a lot of things that would bring people towards him like Meta Knight who people are more comfortable using since he's not broken, Ike who gained fame from recent tournys, Dark Pit 'cause he's dark 'n' edgy, and Palutena because, well, fanservice.

Falco's just a blue, anthropomorphic pheasant who likes bread and still prefers the air despite using a Landmaster.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Hello humble Falco board(ers)
So I've been making guides for every character in the game, and I've come across Falco! been having a bit of trouble using him effectively, and transitioning from Brawl Falco to Smash 4 Falco.

I made a video covering most of the basics, so I'd appreciate any sort of constructive criticism on things I might be missing, or things I could do better with him. Along with teaching others, it helps close my own knowledge gaps, which is nice. Thanks!

Very solid information overall Jtails don't worry. Only thing I can recall that you was off on was Fair spiking which isn't the case anymore cause of the patch going into the Wii U version, the fair used to do it along with other multi hitting aerial moves when fast falled in the 3ds version before the 1.04 patch which was awesome. Some Falco info drop though Falco's bair autocancels on short hop and is kinda kinda to Brawl's Wolf's Bair expect that we don't have the godlike horizontal air speed that Wolf had and is his 2nd fastest aerial move of 4 frames then his Nair is a frame faster. Falco's jab 1 and 2 is good but be cautious with the jab finisher cause people can DI outta it and your stuck in the recovery frames of it and can get punished for it. Down tilt is amazing and got buffed from Brawl and can setup into uair or fair combos and reads starting around the 70 to 80 range and is his most reliable killing option vertically OOS and is 7 frames as opposed into his up smash which I will be going into shortly. His up smash is solid and the second hit of up smash can hit people on the battlefield platform above Falco but it's only solid if both hits connect and at higher percents the opponent can drop out of the up smash before the second hit connect in my experience so going for kills with it at high percents is unreliable in my experience. Also his reflector got buffed from brawl as well in terms of cool down time when throwing it off but you still have to cautious with it cause you can get bopped for throwing it out willy nilly. That's all I have on the matter ATM.

 

[rolrctermaniac]

Hello humble Falco board(ers)
So I've been making guides for every character in the game, and I've come across Falco! been having a bit of trouble using him effectively, and transitioning from Brawl Falco to Smash 4 Falco.

I made a video covering most of the basics, so I'd appreciate any sort of constructive criticism on things I might be missing, or things I could do better with him. Along with teaching others, it helps close my own knowledge gaps, which is nice. Thanks!

I only have few concerns about the video.
1) Up-throw is godlike
0-40% up-throw -> full hop up air -> bair/fair -> punish the landing for a good early combo if you hit the sweet spot on the up air (not the sour spot)
40-80% up-throw -> full hop instant double jump Up-air some guaranteed damage
80-100% up-throw -> full height double jump U-air can kill

2) his tilts are amazing, up-tilt is very fast with a spectacular hit box and f-tilt is also very quick with impressive range, a lot safer than the shine when in range. You did mention d-tilt a lot so no need for me to mention that.

3) Lasers are pretty safe at close to max range or when the opponent is offstage when you aren't close enough to the ledge to gimp.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys, we are discussing the Falco match-up on the Lucina boards. Come help us out!

 

[Charhazzard]

Here's a quick game of my Falco. Although I'm still learning I'm getting better at my overall movements with him which I find most vids I've seen to be lacking.Super smash bros 4 wii u Falco Grinch vs Pikachu: http://youtu.be/DpvQVkC5044


CharhazzardSmash Cadet
New
Here's a quick game of my Falco. Although I'm still learning I'm getting better at my overall movements with him which I find most vids I've seen to be lacking.Super smash bros 4 wii u Falco Grinch vs Pikachu:http://youtu.be/DpvQVkC5044

 

[BltzZ]

CharhazzardSmash Cadet
New
Here's a quick game of my Falco. Although I'm still learning I'm getting better at my overall movements with him which I find most vids I've seen to be lacking.Super smash bros 4 wii u Falco Grinch vs Pikachu:http://youtu.be/DpvQVkC5044

Here's a video of a match I just had tonight offline. I find myself still doing brawl falco stuff like sh lasers XD http://youtu.be/1forYKKXfEs

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Here's a quick game of my Falco. Although I'm still learning I'm getting better at my overall movements with him which I find most vids I've seen to be lacking.Super smash bros 4 wii u Falco Grinch vs Pikachu: http://youtu.be/DpvQVkC5044

Pretty good game. Really liking the pivot ftilts.
Also as another option, you should try going for some bairs off the dthrow, 13% every hit and at low percent can land you another follow up. Try using the shine offensively too.

 

[Charhazzard]

Pretty good game. Really liking the pivot ftilts.
Also as another option, you should try going for some bairs off the dthrow, 13% every hit and at low percent can land you another follow up. Try using the shine offensively too.

I use shine mostly for anti approach and to get sneaky mid range hits. Pika is pretty fast so in this match I didn't want to throw it out too much. Dthrow to bairs I have to lab around with it more to figure out which percents it good for me as a mix up to easily connect with my own play habits. I appreciate all tips and thanks

 

[Float SSB]

Wait what? 9 frames on nair? Did that get buffed?

It was 15 before.

Just so you know you cannot get landing lag/ending frame animations from dantarion data right now.

I went and looked into it. My data was outdated. Initial counts were 9 frames but has since been corrected to 15. Falcos bair and uair are also 15. Fair is 32 and dair is 26. For comparison, air dodge land lag is 22 for everyone.

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Pretty sure this is the place for it, but I just took a stock in smash 4 without taking a hit and it made me feel like I was playing melee. I just needed to share this with people.