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Falco Testing Grounds ~

Tommy_G

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,355
Location
Miami, FL
if they di straight up,jab check then its a free short hop nair, or short hop back air into grab.
if they angle up and away, jab check and its a free sliding upsmash if the laser lock doesnt work.
if they di away, jab check laser lock
 
Hyo

Hyo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
246
Location
Canada
Denzi said:
There is no Jab Lock.
Click to expand...
My mistake, I meant Laser Lock. I could only connect them if they DI away. It's really character dependent, so I don't know how useful this is anymore.

+crosses fingers+
 
J

J4pu

Smash Champion
Joined
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Torrance/Irvine, CA, USA
it isn't some godlike strategy here to get falco banned from brawl, it's just a new, plausible, situationally useful Dthrow follow-up.

inescapable LL's for falco out of a grab would mean he gets banned in brawl I guarantee it.
 
S

superglucose

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
127
If this really pans out and MK can't get out of it we need (NEED) to revisit that matchup. We might be the only MK counters out there.
 
J

J4pu

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nonono you misunderstand me, ANY character can get out of this.
MK merely cannot escape the Dthrow > Jab regardless of DI until a late % for his lifespan (80ish). Any character can stop themselves from landing on their back after the Jab.
 
S

superglucose

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Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
127
J4pu said:
nonono you misunderstand me, ANY character can get out of this.
MK merely cannot escape the Dthrow > Jab regardless of DI until a late % for his lifespan (80ish). Any character can stop themselves from landing on their back after the Jab.
Click to expand...
By teching, right? So they tech and take a laser to the face or they don't tech and get LLed. Or can they do something else to avoid landing on their back? Because otherwise this is still amazing against MK as it forces him to tech, and probably roll into you since anything else will get him hit by a laser.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

Broken!
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,345
superglucose said:
By teching, right? So they tech and take a laser to the face or they don't tech and get LLed. Or can they do something else to avoid landing on their back? Because otherwise this is still amazing against MK as it forces him to tech, and probably roll into you since anything else will get him hit by a laser.
Click to expand...
The whole thing is similar to Falco's jab to grab. It can be avoided in a number of ways, but is surprising enough at times you might get lucky with it. Major difference is that most people do something out of the dthrow at mid percents out of reaction anyway that this is a lot less likely to work than the jab > grab.

But yes, there are other ways to escape this apart from teching. Those are jumping, air dodging or attacking to prevent falling onto ones back that would get LLed.
 
S

superglucose

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
127
do people normally do nothing after a falco's downthrow? I'm now confused as to why anyone would get hit with this ever.
 
S

superglucose

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Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
127
I meant, if anything a character does after a jab will escape him, why would he ever get hit by this? My only assumption is that the jab interrupts whatever move he's been doing and there's not much time between the time the jab hits and when the character hits the ground, so it has to be anticipated.

It wasn't a flame, I'm just trying to ask the tough questions to get this hashed out:

Why would a character land on his back after the jab?
 
J

J4pu

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If they are DI'ing away, as most people do, the window of opportunity is quite small, I would never try to tech this because tech requires you to press L/R well before you hit the ground and the small window makes that very hard.
possible to get out of in many ways, (very) small amount of time after being jabbed until they hit the ground to do it though.
 
pure_awesome

pure_awesome

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Sep 17, 2007
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Montreal, Canada
Jab lessens the amount of time they're in the air.

It also messes with their timing, so the airdodge, double-jump, whatever that they were going to do after the Dthrow doesn't come out due to jab hitstun.
 
R

Random Question

Smash Cadet
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Jan 8, 2009
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ok i tried doing this in training , having my friend play as wolf and i couldn't touch him after the dthrow at 68%. The opponent has to DI away right
 
J

J4pu

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Ftilt can hit (I was doing up-angled for fun when the Jab wasn't hitting) but it doesn't lessen the time between hitting the ground like Jab does so you're not gunna get a LL out of it.
 
Lazee

Lazee

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Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
if anyone wants to test cg to jab LL for me while im at work it would be greatly appreciated,if not ill do it sometime during the weekend and post results
 
Denzi

Denzi

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Cleveland, OH
Lazee said:
if anyone wants to test cg to jab LL for me while im at work it would be greatly appreciated,if not ill do it sometime during the weekend and post results
Click to expand...
Doesn't work directly out of a CG.

Throwing ideas around: CG -> SH Dair -> Jab -> Regrab -> Dthrow -> Jab -> LL?
The only not-for-sure part is the SH Dair -> Jab -> Regrab part of it.

CG -> grab attack(s) -> Dthrow -> Jab -> LL?
I don't know how many attacks you'd have to do.
 
J

J4pu

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... it would unstale the Dthrow, thus allowing you do Dthrow > Jab > "they fall on their back" at percents out of a CG possibly. there's a 20+% difference to when they fall on their back depending on how stale Dthrow is, so this could help utilize the lower side of that percent scale after staling it from a CG.
 
WaterTails

WaterTails

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Dec 2, 2005
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I think part of how he tests stuff is using the Debug Pause code

Code: 
Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Must be on with Debug pause
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC
I've seen him using it in some videos, at least.


Edit to clarify: These codes, when loaded through GeckoOS, let you go frame-by-frame.
 
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