Falco's Match-Ups IMO

[da K.I.D.]

also ive broken top 10 4 times and top 5 once since you wanted to know...i suck *** now tho...lol...Still smack you tho...and yes i saw you at MLG getting the **** by cheese DK and cheese doesnt even play DK...lol

EWWWW that was chuee?

cheeses DK is god awful and you lost to that?

madddd badd yo.

 

[DEHF]

I'll take your word for it Ksizzle <3

@Marcbri there's no way DK and Sonic lose to Falco 35-65

Sup TKO

 

[pulse131]

from my cp against sonic id say around 60-40, maybe more like, 57.5-42.5 or something ;p

 

[da K.I.D.]

for sonics and falcos that know the matchup. its a solid 6-4 in falcos favor. id put it on the same difficulty level as peach.

 

[ANTi_]

I'll take your word for it Ksizzle <3

@Marcbri there's no way DK and Sonic lose to Falco 35-65

Sup TKO

Yeah suck Ksizzles ****, but when i say it. Incorrect. **** YOU

 

[pulse131]

anti's a troll

 

[sorasin]

@DEHF, or anyone really who can give me some advice.

I play with a very skilled Wolf player daily and I have a lot of trouble with the Falco v Wolf matchup. I find myself getting hit by grab > Fsmash combos constantly and just not knowing what to do a great deal of the time. Also I've pretty much conditioned him to avoid the chain grab so I often fail against his platform camping. What should I be doing against Wolf?

 

[Teran]

Next person who falls under the category of mad is gonna get infracted.

 

[DEHF]

@Sorasin You have to go for small hits vs Wolf in that match up. If Wolf is smart and platform camps, you're most likely never going to get a chain grab unless wolf makes a horrible mistake. If you're below him on a platform you can hit him with utilt, short hop nair, or a spaced bair. Try to throw in some short hop air dodges or just stand there to try to bait a shine or him try to counter attack.

After chain grab % go for a lot of grab f tilt mix ups, Wolf can't punish ftilt on shield unless he powershields it. Jab is pretty good too, but I think ftilt is overall better on stage vs. Wolf.

Shine reflects lasers, so laser doesn't really work. The only time you should be going lasering is when Wolf stage or above you. Don't use side b to attack Wolf a lot or don't do it predictably, Wolf can get a free smash if he shines us out of side b.

If Wolf is recovering and decides to side b into you, shield it then up smash out of shield.

At mid/high %s avoid getting grabbed by wolf near the edge, his down throw will kill you. Also, don't tech wolf's d throw if you don't have to, he's guaranteed a jab if you tech in place and probably something worse if you roll.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Kirby is wrong D:

yeah i told you DEHF

 

[@TKbreezy]

Kirby is not wrong at all

everybody is stupid when it comes to that match

common misconceptions
1."Kirby can just duck the whole game and never get hit because all he has to do is powershield [insert move] when falco gets close"
2. "Kirby can't be chaingrabbed"
3. "Kirby super ***** falco because he combos him hardcore becaues hes a fastfaller"

as someone who plays/played both Kirby and Falco I can tell you right now...it is not in kirbys favor...its 50 50 at best

Pros for Falco against Kirby:
Kirby Can't approach falco at all (Safely)
Kirby has that grab combo yes but that can get SDI'd and it only nets you about 50 damage non SDI which means you still have to work for that other 40-50 before you can get an fsmash kill
Lasers shut down his already pretty slow (But effective) air game
Kirby can be walk CG'd
Falco outranges kirby and his Jab thoroughly smacks kirby
Kirby can't Do **** about the slap chop combo (jab cancelling second jab of falcos to restart first jab is slap second jab is chop)
easily spiked out off Up B assuming he has to use it.

Pros for Kirby against Falco
easily spiked out off Up B assuming he has to use it. (lol cop paste)
Thoroughly ****s falco over if he reads his recovery right...but you have to get someone offstage to read a recovery
lasers "tend" to work in favor for kirby but reflector still **** him over and the fact that inhale =free hit if you miss the inhale makes it unsafe anyway
the grab combo of course
Fsmash kills pretty early
...thats about it

Falco never really has to approach shutting down kirbys best option against him (Bair) with lazers

I'm probably missing some stuff but thats off the top of the head

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I would like to say toon link is 50-50. It's pretty even in the fact that neither really has any good KO set-ups and it's a campfest. If either party stops camping the other will rack up enourmous damage, or even a kill. Falco outcamps TL for the most part, but since he can kill so much earlier than we can, I think that sort of negates our minor edge in camping.

FD and SV are bad ideas. TL excels in camping by utilizing his air moblity and huge list of projectiles. Something with a lot of platforms over head like BF I think is a great stage to play on against TL.

 

[Marcbri]

I'll take your word for it Ksizzle <3

@Marcbri there's no way DK and Sonic lose to Falco 35-65

Sup TKO

can you explain on those? I dunno Falco seems to me like a solid counter for both, although they can do well in their counterpicks, it's usually easy for falco in games 1 and 3. well, Dk can kill you really early so that gives him more of a chance, but sonic I just see him having a hard time with falco.

I haven't played much vs DK though, so probably there's something in the match-up I dunno

 

[@TKbreezy]

DEHF Clearly didnt watch SK92 vs Cable...lol

edit: actually i talked to cable after that..and his only real problem was that he wasnt powershield the lasers correctly

so in the end they was ****in him up...but yea its prolly 60-40

 

[Cable]

I believe Falco vs DK is 60-40 but it can honestly be 70-30 that MU is difficult when falco begins to laser camp and their quick punishing DK's moves.

And yea I did talk to TKO about the powershielding that was one problem the other problem was me in the 3rd game on how i kept approaching and trying to grab Falco while its clear that falco two options
1: Spot dodge and jab or grab or 2: just spot dodge and vice versa.
MU is difficult but DK kills fast and could have some good gimps off you just have to play patiently just around catch some bairs, couple d-tilts, if you see a nice opening down B have a punch ready.

 

[King Funk]

Sonic is 40-60 vs Falco. It's definitely not as easy most people think it is. Sonic is a character that makes Falco play extremely different from his usual game. I experienced that matchup long enough to know it well.

Here are my tips to play vs a good Sonic:

• if you're far from him, you still have to be very careful about your laser game because Sonic will reach you really fast ; for that reason it's almost always better to use single silent lasers when he's onstage (double lasers are only good if you notice the Sonic player loves to shorthop).
• don't try to grab in the beginning of his stocks, because he's really tricky to grab and will usually punish you well for attempting it too much ; avoid trying to shieldgrab him too much as well because that's where Sonic makes his money.
• if you do get a grab at low % do a buffered walking chaingrab and don't fail the timing or else he will up-b in your face to escape.
• never try to spotdodge Sonic's spindash approaches as some of his followups will hit you ; shielding is always better (at one point your shielding can get predictable so watch out for grabs)
• when you shield his spindash and he jumps, punishing with Bair out of shield works a lot.
• if Sonic runs instead of spindashing you know he's looking either for a grab or an aerial.
• jabbing a direct spindash approach usually works.
• if Sonic is offstage far on the sides and recovering, you can do a lot of damage edgehopping with bair or hitting him wth precise lasers.
• if Sonic is below the edge and is going to use up-b and you're too close to it he will usually try and hit you with an aerial (which is easy to punish with your OoS options) ; if he doesn't use an aerial, you can grab him out of his up-b, grab release him and he'll die.
• DI his uthrow as far to the front as you can and tech his dthrow.

General strategy: be very patient and always mix up your defensive options vs his approaches (OoS, jab, sh airdodge, etc.) or else he'll bait the one you use too much, the matchup is all about punishing Sonic because he's the one who's going to be doing the hard work.

One more thing: BAN YOSHI'S ISLAND!

 

[Bloodcross]

BAN YOSHI'S ISLAND!

LOL Sonic is ****ing gay on this stage.

 

[@TKbreezy]

he still has picto..(if its legal because I know some states don't run that)

 

[Marcbri]

never try to spotdodge Sonic's spindash approaches as some of his followups will hit you ; shielding is always better (at one point your shielding can get predictable so watch out for grabs)

try pivot grabbing against any of his approaches as a mix-up. standing grab works as well but needs better timing ( what doesn't work at all is shieldgrabbing). This works pretty well for me and makes sonic approaches a lot more predictable.

 

[King Funk]

try pivot grabbing against any of his approaches as a mix-up. standing grab works as well but needs better timing ( what doesn't work at all is shieldgrabbing). This works pretty well for me and makes sonic approaches a lot more predictable.

If you can get the timing down it's good yes. Otherwise you better resort to shielding.

LOL Sonic is ****ing gay on this stage.

Indeed.

You HAVE to ban Yoshi's. After that expect a match on Brinstar.

I forgot to talk about counterpicks. Sonic is actually not bad at all on Battlefield and it's one of the rare cases where it's actually better to counterpick FD than BF vs a character.

Good stages vs Sonic are:
- Final Destination
- Battlefield
- Halberd
- Pokemon Stadium
- Smashville

 

[da K.I.D.]

wow, this is weird, you guys are actually putting out correct information on the matchup...

I think im going to cry.

only thing I would say is that brinstar isnt really a go to sonic counterpick. but thats just me. I counterpick brinstar with falco... but yea, sonic is very open to interpretation, so there isnt any specific go to counterpick aside from Picto, and I dont even use picto much. against falco. I would probably go delfino.

the tier list for sonic counterpicks pretty much goes.
Pictochat.
What ever is bad for the other guy.
YI/FD

also, you might want to limit your side bs a little bit in this matchup. Sonic can powershield punish it from just about anywhere.

 

[erick gm14]

I believe Falco vs DK is 60-40 but it can honestly be 70-30 that MU is difficult when falco begins to laser camp and their quick punishing DK's moves.

And yea I did talk to TKO about the powershielding that was one problem the other problem was me in the 3rd game on how i kept approaching and trying to grab Falco while its clear that falco two options
1: Spot dodge and jab or grab or 2: just spot dodge and vice versa.
MU is difficult but DK kills fast and could have some good gimps off you just have to play patiently just around catch some bairs, couple d-tilts, if you see a nice opening down B have a punch ready.

cable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 my favorite DK. why didnt u perfect shield them lasorz??
u do it to my lasers like 90% of the time xD

 

[da K.I.D.]

SK lasers > Kid lasers.
=P

 

[Marcbri]

The sonic I use to play counterpicks falco to frigate usually, I guess we can place that in '' what ever is bad for the other guy'' xD

 

[King Funk]

The sonic I use to play counterpicks falco to frigate usually, I guess we can place that in '' what ever is bad for the other guy'' xD

Yoshi's is by far his best stage, but I guess you banned it which is why he takes you to Frigate.

wow, this is weird, you guys are actually putting out correct information on the matchup...

I know. I'm da bess. I'm one of the rare people who doesn't go "lol falco ***** x character 70-30 eazy".

 

[Greward]

olimar falco is at the very least 6-4 for falco, i would say 65-35 for falco but its ok

 

[da K.I.D.]

there is no one undisputed best stage for sonic, since the only thing he gets on YI is an invincible spindash, which doesnt even work on a lot of the cast. and even then, you can just camp the platform and not have to worry about it.

 

[sorasin]

Thanks DEHF. It seems like my play style was too aggressive and it was easy for him to capitalize on that.

 

[ksizl4life]

cable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 my favorite DK. why didnt u perfect shield them lasorz??
u do it to my lasers like 90% of the time xD

Because he messed up and didnt play at his peak vs sk? im sure hes stated this already.

 

[J4pu]

40-60

I knew you'd come around one day

 

[B.A.M.]

Falco - Sonic matchup

side b goes through lasers in its initial launch. It also stops phantasm. Always be wary because Sonic can rush in quickly. Lasers dont bother him too much. TBH one of the main reason this isnt 50-50 imo is due to the read it takes to net a kill with Falco vs Sonic. Its not too hard to avoid the CG. Sonic is going to be chillin mid range to punish anything. Lasers usually me free % for Sonic. Both are quite adept at racking damage, and our sh ac uair utilt frame trap performs well on falco as far as juggling is concerned.

Kill and potential CG are only the big things that falco has on us. everything else we can handle.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i think falco wins but not by any kind of large margin.

most falcos lose because they are easy as balls to predict.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

i think falco wins but not by any kind of large margin.

most falcos lose because they are easy as balls to predict.

Yeah, it's probably 55:45, Falco:Sonic, imo. I could see 6:4 too, but I don't think it's quite that much, personally.

 

[DEHF]

I wouldn't Falco Olimar is as bad 65-35 Greward. Olimar can kill so early there's no way it's worse than 60-40.

I don't think DK Falco is any worse than 60-40. DK does so much damage with very little hits and kills Falco VERY early, Falco racks up damage quick too, but doesn't should kill DK without a gimp until about 150%. I've never seen any DKs do it, but I'm sure DK read a laser or side b and Donkey punch it with super armor.

I talked to Shugo about Sonic Falco a while ago, since used to main Sonic it's a match up that he should know very well. He didn't tell me a match up ratio, but he said that Falco ***** Sonic.

@Xeylode maybe, I was debating whether to put that match up as 50-50 or 55-45.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I don't think DK Falco is any worse than 60-40. DK does so much damage with very little hits and kills Falco VERY early, Falco racks up damage quick too, but doesn't should kill DK without a gimp until about 150%. I've never seen any DKs do it, but I'm sure DK read a laser or side b and Donkey punch it with super armor.

I've had it happen to me on multiple occasions where DK charged up a DK Punch after killing me, waited 2 minutes later when he had racked up enough damage, then attempted it. I agree with you on that number for reasons you stated and others.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I've had my Lasers and side-B's read by Ripple before, Donkey punch goes right through it and kills you at like 60% lol.

Yeah, I agree it's not worse than 6:4 in Falco's advantage against DK.

 

[Revolutionary1804]

is the zss matchup still 65-35?

 

[Shugo-Chan]

Falco Sonic is 60:40 imo dehf. He can pressure sonic super easily and bair ***** him terribly along with lasers and jab. The only thing slightly negative is that its harder to catch a kill on him.

 

[M@v]

Yeah. Riddle still barely won(larry sd'd one of the matches if I remember correctly)

 

[swordsaint]

mlg has laggy tvs